Salvation Is Unconditional... Because...

[tyndale1946]

Thirty-Six Arguments
in Favor of Unconditional Eternal Salvation
by Elder S. F. Cayce
November 1895

Elder S. F. Cayce met Elder Lee Jackson (a Campbellite) in a public
debate at Lafayette Springs, Mississippi, in November 1895. The first
proposition was: The eternal salvation of sinners, as set forth in the
Scriptures, is the work of God, independent of any conditions to be
performed by man.

In support of this proposition Elder S. F. Cayce made the following
thirty-six affirmative arguments:

1. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that none in
nature do good. Proof: Ps. xiv. 1-3; Jer. 13:23; Romans 3:12.

2. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that none
seek
God. Proof: Rom. 3:11; Psalms 10:4.

3. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that man,
being corrupt, has to be made good before he can bear good fruit.
Proof:
Matthew 7:17,18; Luke 6:43,44; Heb. 9:14.

4. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that none
can
come to Christ until DRAWN to him by the father. Proof: John 6:44, 45;
Psalms 65:4.

5. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that those
in
the flesh (those in an unregenerate state, not born of God) cannot
please
God. Proof: Rom. 8:7-9; Heb. 11:6.

6. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that the
natural (unregenerate) man is not suspectible of being taught spiritual
things. Proof: 1st Cor. 2:14; I. Cor. 1:23; John 8:43-47; I. John 4:6.

7. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that the
sinner is in a state of death, hence, not able to act in order to life.
Proof: Gen. 2:17; Gen. 3:22-24; Rom. 5:12; Eph. 2:1.

8. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that the
sinner is quickened (or made alive) by the same power and means that it
takes to resurrect those who are naturally (or corporally) dead. Proof:
John 5:21; Eph. 2:1-7; John 5:24, 25.

9. Salvation is unconditional because the change which the sinner
undergoes (in being prepared for heaven) is represented, in the Bible,
as
a resurrection or passing from death unto life, hence, he is passive in
that work. Proof: Col. 3:1-4; I. John 3:14; Eph. 2:1-7.

10. Salvation is unconditional because this change is represented in
the
Bible as a birth, therefore a work in which the sinner must be passive.
Proof: John 3:1-7; John 1:11-13.

11. Salvation is unconditional because those who do righteousness are
(already) born of God. Proof: I. John 2:29; I. John 3:7; I. Peter
1:22,23.

12. Salvation is unconditional because the change which the child of
God
has undergone is represented, in the Bible, as a death, hence a work in
which he was passive. Proof: Rom. 6:2-8; Col. 2:20; I. Peter 2:24; II.
Tim. 2:11.

13. Salvation is unconditional because the change which the sinner
undergoes is represented, in the Bible, as a deliverance; hence, a work
performed by a higher power. Proof: Col. 1:13; II. Cor. 1:9,19; I.
Thess.
1:10; Psalms 56:13.

14. Salvation is unconditional because the work which puts the sinner
in
Christ or makes him (manifestly) a child of God, is represented as the
work of God. Proof: I. Cor. 1:30; Eph. 2:10; I. Cor. 6:11; I. Cor.
12:13.

15. Salvation is unconditional because the work done in making us
children of God is represented as a creative work, and because we are
then NEW creatures (not merely reformed creatures) and because, also,
this work is UNTO, hence, prior to the performing of good works. Proof:
II. Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:10.

16. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that
eternal
life and all things pertaining thereto, is a gift, not something
merited
or purchased. Proof: Romans 6:23; John 17:2; John 10:27,28; Romans
8:32.

17. Salvation is unconditional because faith is represented as being a
fruit of the Spirit, therefore, not possessed by any until they have
the
Spirit, or have been born again. Proof: Hebrews 12:2; Gal. 5:22; I.
Cor.
12: 6-9; Romans 12:3; I. Peter 1:21-23; John 6:47; I. John 5:1.

18. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that
obedience to the commands of God (properly or acceptably rendered) is
an
evidence of an internal work having been done by the Lord. Proof: Phil.
2:12,13; Heb. 11:6; Matt. 7:18.

19. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that it is
not of works, neither a debt, but all of grace. Proof: Titus 3:5; Eph.
2:8-10; Rom. 11:6; II. Tim. 1:9; Rom. 3:23,24; Eph. 1:7; Rom. 4:4,5.

20. Salvation is unconditional because it is the work of God and
according to His purposes. Proof: Matt. 19:16-26; Jonah 2:9; Isa.
53:1-5;
Isa. 52:16; II. Tim. 1:9.

21. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that the
mission of Christ was to SAVE, not to offer, nor to try, but to SAVE
SINNERS; not those who have ceased to be sinners by complying with
terms,
etc. Proof: Matt. 1:21; Matt. 16:11; Luke 19:10; I. Tim. 1:15.

22. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that God
has,
and ever has had, but one way of saving people; whether they be
infants,
adults, idiots, heathens, learned or unlearned, in whatever age of the
world. All therefore, who are saved at all, are saved in precisely the
same way. Proof: John 6:44,45; John 14:6; Luke 18:16,17; Acts 15:11;
Rev.
5:9.

23. Salvation is unconditional because the church is (figuratively)
represented, in the Bible, as a building, hence the material of which
the
church is composed must be passive in its preparation. Proof: Proverbs
9:1; Matthew 16:18; I. Peter 2:4,5; Eph. 2:19-22; Psalms 127:1.

24. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that God is
a
Sovereign, that He does His will, and that He, therefore, saves all
whom
He purposes, or desire, to save. Proof: Genesis 1 (entire chapter);
Isaiah 46:9-11; Isaiah 14:26,27; Romans 8:28-39; Isaiah 55:8-11.

25. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that God's
love, like Himself, is eternal and immutable, and that those saved are
embraced in His love. Proof: Jeremiah 31:3; Malachi 3:6; Galatians
2:20;
Ephesians 5:25-27; John 17:22-24; I. John 3:1; Romans 9:11-16; Romans
5:7-9.

26. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that God's
love for His people, when manifested to them, produces in them love for
God, and that His love for us, is, therefore, the cause of why we love
Him. Proof: I. John 4:19.

27. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that the
heirs of salvation were elected thereunto before the world began.
Proof:
Psalms 65:4; Romans 8:28-33; Romans 9:8-16; Ephesians 1:3-5; II.
Timothy
1:9.

28. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that Christ
suffered (to render satisfaction) for the sins of those for whom he
died,
and bring them to God. Proof: Isaiah 42:4; I. Peter 3:18.

29. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that those
for whom Christ died are justified by his blood, and made righteous.
Proof: Romans 5:6-9; Romans 3:24; Romans 4:25; 5:15-19; Matthew 5:18;
Isaiah 53:11.

30. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that those
for whom Christ died are reconciled to God, by his death, and that
being
reconciled they SHALL BE SAVED by his life. Proof: Romans 5:8-10; II.
Cor. 6:18-21.

31. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that the
people for whom Christ died are designated in the Bible as his seed,
his
generation, his people, his portion, his sheep, etc., and that to these
eternal life is GIVEN. Proof: Isaiah 53 (entire chapter); John
10:11-16,
27, 28; John 5:37-39; John 17:1-5.

32. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that Christ
gave his life a ransom for those for whom he died, and that he
purchased
them with his blood. Proof: Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; I. Corinthians
6:20; I. Peter 1:18,19.

33. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that those
who have redemption in Christ (those redeemed by him) have, also,
forgiveness of sins. Proof: Colossians 1:13; Ephesians 1:7; Matthew
26:28.

34. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that Christ
gave himself to redeem the people for whom he died FROM ALL INIQUITY.
Proof: Psalms 130:8; Titus 2:14; Isaiah 53:6.

35. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that Christ
obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION for those for whom he died. Proof: Hebrews
9:12; Hebrews 10:13,14; I. Peter 1:18,19.

36. Salvation is unconditional because the Scriptures teach that Christ
redeemed the people for whom he died (all the way) to GOd. Proof:
Isaiah
35:8,9; Revelation 5:9... Brother Glen

[ August 19, 2002, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

 

[KenH]

Thanks, Brother Glen. I especially appreciate the Scripture references.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[sov. grace]

Note also that not only the sheep are determined
before the foundation of the world;Eph. 1:4-11,so
also was the reprobate actively ordained by God to this condemnation. Jude 1:4,Rom. 9:10-18

 

[Sovereign Grace]

Amen, brother!

 

[Sularis]

*sigh* I sense im going to have to do a lot more praying

Salvation is NOT unconditional (except if God puts conditions on it)

Salvation being unconditional would mean that everyone would have it. And not everyone that God picked not because they're special but because they want to espouse doctrine that is not properly preached or taught. God picking people IS a condition

Ie You will be saved ONLY if God picks you

[Language edited]

No one is immediately saved at birth. Everyone transitions from heathen to Christian. Unless you care to argue that the elect are like Christ and without sin or have NEVER sinned?

Thus must the blood of Christ be applied to every electee, and since I have never heard the exact measurement of blood used in the washing, Im going to make the foolish assumption that the amount doesnt matter, that even only a single drop of the Messiah's blood could wipe away the sins of all creation. I really hope no one argues with that thought.

God so loved the world - the whole stinkin, war-torn bleedin mess - with the dictators, rapists, and Baptists, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that if the thickheaded, ugly bags of water got it through their skulls and believed, that He would gladly give them the salvation for which His Son bled and died.

Now as to the rest of us non-elected baptists - although I do believe I was elected, Im going to give up that "title", that "prestige", and ask you all some questions. What would happen if "free will" and election both existed simultaneously? Would it destroy the Word of God?
Would it make God more or less powerful?

Here are my answers #1 - Nothing would happen, because that is what is

#2 - No, it would solve a lot of "conflicts" of doctrine, and readjust some attitudes that need some serious rubbing in something.

Man is not supreme God is!
So You're elected - I'm not what does that say about you?

#3 - It would make MY God even more powerful - in that His elections - can thwart the free will of man. That no matter what choice we make; God has a contingency plan for every single possibilty that has, is, and will ever happen. Think of the power and knowledge of that God

____________________

Language such as used in this post (now edited) will not be tolerated. If you cannot discuss these matters decently, then refrain from participation. Thanks.

[ August 21, 2002, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

[tyndale1946]

Sularis said:

What would happen if "free will" and election both existed simultaneously?

... I might add btw that is very colorful language you used in your post... Now to your question... These are nice assumptions but give me some scripture to prove your point! I've given many to prove mine... Show me where free will and election exist simutaneously for a dead man?... Brother Glen

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Sularis:
What would happen if "free will" and election both existed simultaneously?

They do. NO one is saved against their will. When you misdefine free will, you end up with the view that you have. When you define free will consistently, you end up believing in election.

Would it destroy the Word of God?

n/a

Would it make God more or less powerful? ... It would make MY God even more powerful - in that His elections - can thwart the free will of man. That no matter what choice we make; God has a contingency plan for every single possibilty that has, is, and will ever happen. Think of the power and knowledge of that God

This is a common attempt that falls short. First, it does not increase his power. It makes at best, no statement about his power. In your view, God is not exercising power, he is simply reacting. But even in that, he is not doing anything at all. Every is caused by prior choices so God just sits back and watches. His contingency "plan" involves only the natural consequences of the "free choices" of man. This is in contradiction to a God who "works all things after the counsel of his own will." But more than that, you have a God who knows a bunch of useless information. He has to sit back to wait and see which scenario will happen. Then the other billions of scenarios for that given instant just lie "known" but "unused." That is simply logical absurdity. God knows all things that might have ever happened, but he knows them only as possibilities, not as actualities.

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
They do. NO one is saved against their will. When you misdefine free will, you end up with the view that you have. When you define free will consistently, you end up believing in election.

Do you not state that free will is simply acting within one's nature? Isn't it possible that we could disagree with that "nature," insofar as the Holy Spirit enlightening all men?

Your words would better be stated, I think, "When you define free will as I do, you end up believing in election."

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
Do you not state that free will is simply acting within one's nature? Isn't it possible that we could disagree with that "nature," insofar as the Holy Spirit enlightening all men?

Well I presume it is possible. The question is, Is it consistent (the word that I used). Consider this: the unsaved man does not have a new nature. That is why he is unsaved. Therefore he can only make choices in accordance with the nature he has (the old sin nature). I do not find the idea that the Holy Spirit enlightens all men in Scripture. The "light" in all men (John 1:9) is the image of God that everyone has. It does not save but it does communicate a knowledge of God that man rejects. 1 Cor 2:14 talks of the unsaved man who "cannot understand" spiritual things. IT is a word of ability and it precludes understanding God, sin, salvation, and Christ.

Second, and more importantly, God is free, but he cannot make choices contrary to his nature. If you define free will consistently, you have to 1) assert that unsaved man has a new nature (which calls into question the need for salvation); 2) assert that God is not truly free (which calls into question the nature of God); 3) agree with me

...

 

[Eladar]

Salvation being unconditional would mean that everyone would have it. And not everyone that God picked not because they're special but because they want to espouse doctrine that is not properly preached or taught. God picking people IS a condition

Ie You will be saved ONLY if God picks you

Sularis is right.

 

[Sularis]

Or 4)disagree violently with you

Free Will - Election as methods of salvation are in opposition to each other and thus cannot be in affect for a single person - Either a single person is saved by election - or he is saved by free will - but another person could be saved by free will; while the first is saved by election

As to the verse requirements you posted verses
for election somewhere I assume on this board

Well then there's my proof for election existing part

And there are verses posted on the board defending "free will" - thus I dont have to defend that part existence either

Im not saying "Free Will elections" - but rather Im stating that God has 2 paths up to the gate that is His Son.

One is the path of God presents evidence of here I am, and gives the grace so that man may choose against his fallen nature. (prevenient grace)

Two is the path that God seeing a set of choices coming up that He wants to make sure never happens, He divinely forces His Will upon His creation giving His grace in that manner.

The problem is that everything God does is logical, rational, just not immediately understandable; since most or all of us will have to wait until heaven to get the basics down proper

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
I do not find the idea that the Holy Spirit enlightens all men in Scripture. The "light" in all men (John 1:9) is the image of God that everyone has.

The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

How in the world do you come to that conclusion, especially since John didn't have the light at all, but was merely the witness to the light in the previous verse?

Joel 2:28 to the end of the chapter states that God would pour His Spirit on all people, and he separates His servants from all people, drawing a distinction that seems to show that both groups would at least experience in some way the Spirit.

Second, and more importantly, God is free, but he cannot make choices contrary to his nature. If you define free will consistently, you have to 1) assert that unsaved man has a new nature (which calls into question the need for salvation); 2) assert that God is not truly free (which calls into question the nature of God); 3) agree with me

...[/QB]

We still have a problem with the definition of nature. If nature means something different, then even a "consistent" reading of free will could lead to the Arminian theology.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Salvation is conditioned by only one thing. [John 1:12]

 

[Sularis]

The nature of man:

1) Evil
2) Unable to do good or choose good unless it be for evil reasons; or there's so much direct evidence otherwise.
3) Capable of reason but biased towards evil
4) Not anxious to change ones state

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Sularis:
Or 4)disagree violently with you

Free Will - Election as methods of salvation are in opposition to each other and thus cannot be in affect for a single person - Either a single person is saved by election - or he is saved by free will - but another person could be saved by free will; while the first is saved by election

This is simply wrong. I don't know how else to put it. Ask any Calvinist. They do not believe that God saves people against their will or sends people to hell against their will. You have been listening to people who do not know what they are talking about.

The problem is that everything God does is logical, rational, just not immediately understandable; since most or all of us will have to wait until heaven to get the basics down proper

So if you admit you don't understand it, why do you "violently disagree"?? What if you are wrong and I am right? After all, I have shown Scripture and theology in support of what I have said?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
How in the world do you come to that conclusion, especially since John didn't have the light at all, but was merely the witness to the light in the previous verse?

You miscited it. John was not the light but was sent to bear witness to the light.

Joel 2:28 to the end of the chapter states that God would pour His Spirit on all people, and he separates His servants from all people, drawing a distinction that seems to show that both groups would at least experience in some way the Spirit.

Everybody now experiences the Spirit in some fashion. That is not at issue. But all are not effectually called by teh Spirit to salvation.

We still have a problem with the definition of nature. If nature means something different, then even a "consistent" reading of free will could lead to the Arminian theology.

A nature is a complex of attributes. There is no problem there. A consistent reading of free will will never lead to arminian theology unless you suggest that it is possible for God to sin. If God cannot sin, then under your definition, he cannot be free. I think God is totally free and I think God cannot sin. "Freedom" is limited by the nature, not by the ability to choose from theoretical possibilities.

 

[Sularis]

*Cough* *Cough*

Larry - If the Spirit is involved in calling

non-effectual calling - the reprobates
effectually calling - the elect

What makes it effective? The choice of man?
In that case free will
Or the Spirit in that case FORCED - unless you come up with a refutation

Election is not a gentle process - its not God walking up to man and saying "Hi, I like you, guess what yer saved"

Salvation depends on a choice
God's - which I define both as having done and ongoing - done in that He sent His Son to pay for the entire world's sin *(see note) - ongoing He sovereignly determines the course of creation - by imposing His will - whether or not He does that directly or indrectly is still a matter of debate

*note - If man refuses God's payment - He goes to Hell

An example my semi-blasphemous brother came up with - is that it seems that God's payment is like a limited time voucher - its issued to every man, woman, child - and its good for one free salvation - but man has to cash it in - If he doesnt its worthless - And the problem is that that the voucher has an expiry date - its called death
So Larry, Im willing to admit I dont understand everything - but Im willing to state that I know as least as much as you, and shouldnt have to put with you putting words into my post while I was TRYING to be polite and less confrontational - [inappropriate personal comments edited. If you have personal issues, then deal with the personally]

Why repost verses that have been posted to death?
I need not prove the existence of Free Will or Election since the verses have already been posted

I am merely making the suggestion that if both exist - then they somehow they have to work together - and thus I dont have to disprovc the validity of one or the other - just fanatics who refuse to admit the other's existence

[ August 26, 2002, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

[HeisLord]

We can't reconsile every verse in the Bible, but that does not mean that they are not true.

I mean... who are WE? His ways are far above our ways..God refers to the elect...but not to a SELECT...HE also says that Whosoever...We may not be able to place those two concepts hand in hand, but God does and can. Two statements that have helped me (and they weren't on any of these threads):

1. God's door of predestination swings on the hinges of foreknowledge, Not election.

2. The sign over the door of salvation says 'whosoever.' After walking through it, and looking back over the top of the door, it says 'elect.'

Agrippa, the rich young ruler, the crowd in Acts 7:51 all had the opportunity to be saved, but they rejected it. That doesn't mean that God didn't die for them. His own chosen race rejected Him, that doesn't mean that Jews can never be saved.

Again, 2 Peter 2:1 proves that Christ died for false prophets that rejected Him. IT doesn't get any plainer. I reject Calvinism, Arminianism, and any thing else that goes against obvious verses in the Bible.

 

[KenH]

Can a person dead in sin elect himself unto salvation?

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[Sularis]

change the word elect

Here's the biggie - is the concept of prevenient grace valid? If it is - then the whole bunch of Calvinist-like people need to re-evaluate their theology - If it isnt - God still has another surprise for you