Santa Claus and Easter Bunny

[EdSutton]

I think it should be known to all that the word translated in the KJV is pascha which has reference to the Passover of the Jews. So, its not a reference to All Saints Day or Easter, but the Passover.

Good point on the word "pascha". "Easter" it ain't!

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Relax, its Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Arbor Day, Groundhog Day, or whatever holiday you want to celebrate.

Just don't be messing around with Groundhog Day with Punxsutawney Phil and me, or The Great Pumpkin with Linus! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

[tinytim]

Interesting thought which you're right, this is the essence of this thread. What ways to do you feel our rights as parents are falling away to the majority opinion of society?

I think of discipline... Mama used the belt on us...

Child discipline is one...
Education is another... I about had a fit the first day my oldest son went to kindergarten... I went with him, and the principal was giving her speech, and thanked the parents for giving them our kids!

Sorry.. I let her know, they are my kids.. on loan from God.

 

[LeBuick]

Esther Bunny???

Ed

Here comes the cops... :laugh: :laugh:

 

[tinytim]

Here comes the cops... :laugh: :laugh:

Nah. they are too busy chasin someone in a bunny suit...

Oh wait...

That's OJ!!!

 

[EdSutton]

Here comes the cops... :laugh: :laugh:

"Language Cop, here! You rang??"

 

[EdSutton]

Nah. they are too busy chasin someone in a bunny suit...

Oh wait...

That's OJ!!!

:laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

[Jkdbuck76]

I was one of four children that didn't believe in Santa. Even as a child, I didn't believe that a tubby guy could fly around the ENTIRE earth in one night.

The other thing was that no matter how good I was, almost nothing was under the tree because we were dirt dirt DIRT poor growing up. "If there is indeed a Santa who rewards kids for being good, why do I get so little every Christmas morning?"

Yes, there are trees and stockings and candy canes and all kinds of other goofy things that distract us from Christ. However, my suffestion is that for those who celebrate Christmas that they certainly have a Nativity Scene or two in the house so when the kids start asking (as I did) "Mommy, who is that little baby? Why are there animals there?" there is a chance to teach your children.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Tim is right. We, as parents, should have the right to raise our children as we see fit.

My children always had Easter baskets. They also colored Easter eggs, so they knew the eggs in their baskets did not come from a rabbit. The basket also contained school pencils, erasers, etc. It was fun.

I still fix hubby an Easter basket full of his favorite goodies and he certainly knows the real reason for Easter!

For Christmas, we have two small nativity scenes inside and a very large lighted one in our front yard. On the other side, we have a lighted Santa and decorated tree. We all know the difference.

It is harmless to let your children be children and have fun...as long as they know the difference between pretend and real.

There is no doubt in our neighbor's minds that we are Christians and are celebrating Jesus' birth. We give gifts to each other...we also give special gifts to Jesus.

 

[HankD]

I think you are right about the etymology of the word though. However, I am sure you agree that the symbol has lost its meaning. In other words, that word has so lost its tie to the pagan celebration (including the names of the weekdays) to render it acceptable use by Christians without being a burden to conscience. Or so I think..

Exactly, as well as many other words and customs (wedding rings for example).

HankD

 

[LeBuick]

For Christmas, we have two small nativity scenes inside and a very large lighted one in our front yard. On the other side, we have a lighted Santa and decorated tree. We all know the difference..

No snow? Christmas just ain't Christmas with no snow...

Two of my favorite secular season songs are “I'm dreaming of a white Christmas” and when I'm on the road I think of “I'll be home for Christmas”...

 

[Sopranette]

Its snows only about once a year around here. I've heard it snowed more than that years ago. It's also very dry here about now. Dry, brown grass is not very Christmas-y to me! Deep snow just is a part of Christmas for me, and I miss it! This town is mostly Baptist, about 90%, with the rest being Protestant or Methodist. You have to drive a long way to find a Catholic church here, but that is changing, with all the Hispanics moving in, and the city people (Atheists) moving to the country, too. People look at us funny when we say there is no SC or EB in our house. So what? I want our kids to be thinking about Christ's life, and not cartoon characters on these holidays! Yes, we do easter egg hunts, but the kids know we are the ones hiding the eggs! Sure, it's fun, but nothing else. I stopped believing in SC when I was about five, and never believed in a giant bunny for Easter. It didn't make me weird or different. In fact, since I grew up overseas, it made me "normal"!

love,

Sopranette

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

No snow? Christmas just ain't Christmas with no snow...

We had snow for Christmas, but this picture was taken about a week before.

You're right! It ain't Christmas without snow. I lived in Florida for three years and never did get used to seeing Santa peeping out from behind a lush, green, palm tree. LOL

 

[Karen]

Thank you, Brother Hank! Since the time they were born, we've gotten this kind of harassment! We've even had relatives sneak in Bunny baskets at Easter! I try to be sensitive to other's beliefs, why can't they be respectful of ours? We feel like outsiders sometimes for sure! But I feel we are raising our kids with a respect for real and a sacred reverence for these special days, and they don't seem to be suffering any! They are already inundated with other cultures, but somehow ours is "wrong" in some way! Go figure!

love,

Sopranette

Most responses have presumed pressure was coming from mere friends and acquaintances. Yet both of your posts have specifically mentioned relatives.
Yes, you have the right to raise your children as you see fit. But there is a certain antagonism towards family members that could be read here.
You also put it pretty strongly that your way is teaching your kids true respect and reverence and not to believe lies.
Can you see that you are seeming to accuse your family members of some things that are probably pretty extreme from what they really want to do?

I'm curious if your husband sees this as strongly as you do. Doubtful he does, if it is his side of the family.

I am grateful for a large family with many happy times. Having some pretend fun is not believing a lie. Nobody was a better Easter egg finder than my father-in-law. And he wore a great pair of ears while he was doing it. :thumbs: He never got confused about what was real or pretend either.

 

[Sopranette]

Yes, DH has as strong of an opinion over this issue as I do. It's not just family members, it's total strangers as well. You are assuming I have a conviction over this subject, but our beliefs come from a mindset that these holidays should place Jesus first, and not include cartoon charaters. We don't think including SC and the EB are lies, rather they take away from the true miracle of these special days. It's a watering down of the greatest miracles known to Man.
We want our boys to know the true story of Jesus, not some story book version that is so overly commercialized today. At this age, they need someone to distinguish between real and pretend. We have our traditions, too. It's not about presents; it's about the miracle that was Christ's life, death, and resurrection. That is as much an event than any current tradition today! And it is not stale and boring. Our celebration is not harsh, or strict, or abusive. Our kids get a thrill from the truth as any other child waiting up for the jolly old soul! And they really don't care where the gifts come from, and I'm not about to let some fictional being take the credit for picking out gifts, wrapping them, and giving them to the kids with love in my heart. Christmas is a time for us to pause and reflect on that beautiful night when God's only Son came to Earth to experience, teach, and ultimately bridge the gap between Heaven and Earth (when we really didn't deserve it). THAT is the focus of our holiday!

love,

Sopranette

 

[charles_creech78]

Yes, DH has as strong of an opinion over this issue as I do. It's not just family members, it's total strangers as well. You are assuming I have a conviction over this subject, but our beliefs come from a mindset that these holidays should place Jesus first, and not include cartoon charaters. We don't think including SC and the EB are lies, rather they take away from the true miracle of these special days. It's a watering down of the greatest miracles known to Man.
We want our boys to know the true story of Jesus, not some story book version that is so overly commercialized today. At this age, they need someone to distinguish between real and pretend. We have our traditions, too. It's not about presents; it's about the miracle that was Christ's life, death, and resurrection. That is as much an event than any current tradition today! And it is not stale and boring. Our celebration is not harsh, or strict, or abusive. Our kids get a thrill from the truth as any other child waiting up for the jolly old soul! And they really don't care where the gifts come from, and I'm not about to let some fictional being take the credit for picking out gifts, wrapping them, and giving them to the kids with love in my heart. Christmas is a time for us to pause and reflect on that beautiful night when God's only Son came to Earth to experience, teach, and ultimately bridge the gap between Heaven and Earth (when we really didn't deserve it). THAT is the focus of our holiday!

love,

Sopranette

Amen Jesus should come first that is what it is about. If we let them take it away they will. They have there santa and we have are Lord Jesus Christ. I told my wife that we need to let are kids know what Christmas is all about. The world is doing a good job to change it and we need to stand for what that day means. We need to tell the world what it means and we will not stand for anyone to change it. I will speak my voice on this. I remeber when I was young people would go around saying Marry Christmas. Now they say happy hoiday and other things they ignorantly say just to change it. It is called Christmas and nothing else to me. So if you want to greet me on that day greet me with a Merry Christmas or else I will ignore you.

 

[Bro. Williams]

The term Easter doesn't bother me, it is just an insifficient translation found in the KJV. It is more accurately translated Passover. I think you are right about the etymology of the word though. However, I am sure you agree that the symbol has lost its meaning. In other words, that word has so lost its tie to the pagan celebration (including the names of the weekdays) to render it acceptable use by Christians without being a burden to conscience. Or so I think..

To chase this bunny trail...

Sam Gipp makes some good points on the Easter issue:

QUESTION: Isn't "Easter" in Acts 12:4 a mistranslation of the word "pascha" and should it be translated as "passover"?

ANSWER: No, "pascha" is properly translated "Easter" in Acts 12:4 as the following explanation will show.

EXPLANATION: The Greek word which is translated "Easter" in Acts 12:4 is the word "pascha". This word appears twenty-nine times in the New Testament. Twenty-eight of those times the word is rendered "Passover" in reference to the night when the Lord passed over Egypt and killed all the firstborn of Egypt (Exodus 12:12), thus setting Israel free from four hundred years of bondage.
The many opponents to the concept of having a perfect Bible have made much of this translation of "pascha".
Coming to the word "Easter" in God's Authorized Bible, they seize upon it imagining that they have found proof that the Bible is not perfect. Fortunately for lovers of the word of God, they are wrong. Easter, as we know it, comes from the ancient pagan festival of Astarte. Also known as Ishtar (pronounced "Easter"). This festival has always been held late in the month of April. It was, in its original form, a celebration of the earth "regenerating" itself after the winter season. The festival involved a celebration of reproduction. For this reason the common symbols of Easter festivities were the rabbit (the same symbol as "Playboy" magazine), and the egg. Both are known for their reproductive abilities. At the center of attention was Astarte, the female deity. She is known in the Bible as the "queen of heaven" (Jeremiah 7:18; 44:17-25). She is the mother of Tammuz (Ezekiel 8:14) who was also her husband! These perverted rituals would take place at sunrise on Easter morning (Ezekiel 8:13-16). From the references in Jeremiah and Ezekiel, we can see that the true Easter has never had any association with Jesus Christ.
Problem: Even though the Jewish passover was held in mid April (the fourteenth) and the pagan festival Easter was held later the same month, how do we know that Herod was referring to Easter in Acts 12:4 and not the Jewish passover? If he was referring to the passover, the translation of "pascha" as "Easter" is incorrect. If he was indeed referring to the pagan holyday (holiday) Easter, then the King James Bible (1611) must truly be the very word and words of God for it is the only Bible in print today which has the correct reading.
To unravel the confusion concerning "Easter" in verse 4, we must consult our FINAL authority, THE BIBLE. The key which unlocks the puzzle is found not in verse 4, but in verse 3. (Then were the days of unleavened bread... ") To secure the answer that we seek, we must find the relationship of the passover to the days of unleavened bread. We must keep in mind that Peter was arrested during the "days of unleavened bread" (Acts 12:3).
Our investigation will need to start at the first Passover. This was the night in which the LORD smote all the firstborn in Egypt. The Israelites were instructed to kill a lamb and strike its blood on the two side posts and the upper door post (Exodus 12:4,5). Let us now see what the Bible says concerning the first passover, and the days of unleavened bread.
Exodus 12:13-18: "And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."
Here in Exodus 12:13 we see how the passover got its name. The LORD said that He would "pass over" all of the houses which had the blood of the lamb marking the door.
After the passover (Exodus 12:13,14), we find that seven days shall be fulfilled in which the Jews were to eat unleavened bread. These are the days of unleavened bread!
In verse 18 we see that dates for the observance were April 14th through the 21st.
This religious observance is stated more clearly in Numbers 28:16-18: "And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation;ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:"
In verse 16 we see that the passover is only considered to be the 14th of the month. On the next morning, the 15th begins the "days of unleavened bread."
Deuteronomy 16:1-8: "Observe the month of Abib (April), and keep the passover unto the LORD thy God: for in the month of Abib the LORD thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.
2 Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there.
3 Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, even the bread of affliction: for thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt in haste: that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life.
4 And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there any thing of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning.
5 Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee:
6 But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
7 And thou shalt roast and eat it in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: and thou shalt turn in the morning, and go unto thy tents.
8 Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein."
Here in Deuteronomy we see again that the passover is sacrificed on the first night (Deuteronomy 16:1). It is worth noting that the passover was to be celebrated in the evening (vs.6) not at sunrise (Ezekiel 8:13-16).
In II Chronicles 8:13 we see that the feast of unleavened bread was one of the three Jewish feasts to be kept during the year.
II Chronicles 8:13: "Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles."
Whenever the passover was kept, it always preceded the feast of unleavened bread. In II Chronicles 30 some Jews who were unable to keep the passover in the first month were allowed to keep it in the second. But the dates remained the same.
II Chronicles 30:l5,21: "Then they killed the passover on the fourteenth day of the second month: and the priests and the Levites were ashamed, and sanctified themselves, and brought in the burnt offerings into the house of the LORD. And the children of lsrael that were present at Jerusalem kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with great gladness: and the Levites and the priests praised the LORD day by day, singing with loud instruments unto the LORD."
Ezra 6:19,22: "And the children of the captivity kept the passover upon the fourteenth day of the first month. And kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with joy: for the LORD had made them joyful, and turned the heart of the king of Assyria unto them, to strengthen their hands in the work of the house of God, the God of Israel."
We see then, from studying what the BIBLE has to say concerning the subject that the order of events went as follows:
(1) On the 14th of April the lamb was killed. This is the passover. No event following the 14th is ever referred to as the passover.
(2) On the morning of the 15th begins the days of unleavened bread, also known as the feast of unleavened bread.

 

[Bro. Williams]

Gipp continued:

It must also be noted that whenever the passover is mentioned in the New Testament, the reference is always to the meal, to be eaten on the night of April 14th not the entire week. The days of unleavened bread are NEVER referred to as the Passover. (It must be remembered that the angel of the Lord passed over Egypt on one night, not seven nights in a row.
Now let us look at Acts 12:3,4: "And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people."
Verse 3 shows that Peter was arrested during the days of unleavened bread (April 15-2 1). The Bible says: "Then were the days of unleavened bread." The passover (April 14th) had already come and gone. Herod could not possibly have been referring to the passover in his statement concerning Easter. The next Passover was a year away! But the pagan holiday of Easter was just a few days away. Remember! Herod was a pagan Roman who worshipped the "queen of heaven". He was NOT a Jew. He had no reason to keep the Jewish passover. Some might argue that he wanted to wait until after the passover for fear of upsetting the Jews. There are two grievous faults in this line of thinking.
First, Peter was no longer considered a Jew. He had repudiated Judaism. The Jews would have no reason to be upset by Herod's actions.
Second, he could not have been waiting until after the passover because he thought the Jews would not kill a man during a religious holiday. They had killed Jesus during passover (Matthew 26:17-19,47). They were also excited about Herod's murder of James. Anyone knows that a mob possesses the courage to do violent acts during religious festivities, not after.
In further considering Herod's position as a Roman, we must remember that the Herods were well known for celebrating (Matthew 14:6-11). In fact, in Matthew chapter 14 we see that a Herod was even willing to kill a man of God during one of his celebrations.
It is elementary to see that Herod, in Acts 12, had arrested Peter during the days of unleavened bread, after the passover. The days of unleavened bread would end on the 21st of April. Shortly after that would come Herod's celebration of pagan Easter. Herod had not killed Peter during the days of unleavened bread simply because he wanted to wait until Easter. Since it is plain that both the Jews (Matthew 26:17- 47) and the Romans (Matthew 14:6-11) would kill during a religious celebration, Herod's opinion seemed that he was not going to let the Jews "have all the fun ". He would wait until his own pagan festival and see to it that Peter died in the excitement.
Thus we see that it was God's providence which had the Spirit-filled translators of our Bible (King James) to CORRECTLY translate "pascha" as "Easter". It most certainly did not refer to the Jewish passover. In fact, to change it to "passover" would confuse the reader and make the truth of the situation unclear.

 

[Bro. Williams]

In regards to the OP:"

There is NO excuse for a Christian to LIE to their children about santa or the ester bunny. BUT, that is exactly what the majority of Christians do each year, without batting an eye, and without the slightest remorse of cringing of conscience.

 

[HankD]

IMO, the only way one can say that Acts 12:4 refers to "Easter" is if one holds to "advanced revelation" (not necessarily anyone here at the BB).
Here are passages leading up to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ with the chief priests with a very similar problem, the reason why and the solution:

Matthew 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?​

Mark 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
2 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people (notice the italicised word day​

In the Bible, Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread can be synonymous:

Ezekiel 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.​

Luke 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.​

In addition to that the word in Acts 12:4 is "pascha" and is translated "Passover" in every other place in the New Testament of the KJV​

In the Greek of the the LXX (Ancient Greek translation of the OT) the Greek word "pascha" is used for the Hebrew word "pesach" (Passover) and may very well be a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew "pesach".​

While it is within the realm of possibility that the Acts 12:4 word "pascha" should be translated as "easter" it is improbable especially with the mention of the "days of unleavened bread" in the preceeding verse.​

Then one has the problem, if it indeed should be "easter", whose "easter" is it?​

Those who insist on "easter" are divided.​

Does it mean the Pagan "easter" (Celebration of the goddess Ishtar) or the Christian "Easter".​

"Passover" seems to me to make the most sense.​

HankD​