Satan and sin

[Brother Bob]

The dragon was a name for Satan, and symbolic of Satan.
The serpent was an animal that Satan inhabited.

The above is your response to 2Cor.11:14,15.
It is a typical response to the post that you posted here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1197212&postcount=1

He had 7 heads, ten horns and seven crowns upon his heads. His tale did draw a third part of the stars from heaven.

Some man.

Now, Bob: I would expect that from a child, but such "childish" reasoning ought not to come from a pastor.

Which part do I have wrong above. Are you saying satan could not of been a dragon, an angel of light, a serphent, which one do you disagree with?

The verse says that he is able to change himself or make himself appear as an angel of light. He who is an apostate angel can put on the appearance of a holy angel, is the meaning. Search the OT and the NT. How did angels appear? Gabriel, the angel to Manaoh, the two to Lot, etc. These were hardly discernable from the average man, until they made themselves known to whom they were appearing to. Jacob at first did not know that an angel was in the way, appearing to him, until the angel identified himself. They appeared as men.


I have not problem with angels, but even satan can appear as a man, but he is an evil spirit.

But you have taken Scripture out of context, very symbolic Scripture used in the Book of Revelation, and thrust it into 2Cor. as though it should fit. You do not rightly divide the word of truth.
The only thing these verses have in common is that they provide some of the different names of Satan: angel of light, Serpent, that Great Dragon, etc. The latter is the most symbolic. The serpent was the animal in the Garden of Eden that was more subtile than all the other animals and so Satan used it. He inhabited it in order to deceive Eve. And he succeeded. Demons inhabit people all the time. Christ went around casting out demons. He cast out a thousand demons out of the man at the Gaderenes, whose name was Legion. The Holy Spirit is a person. So are demons. Both can inhabit a person.

Satan used it, you said, now when you start applying that to man, you will be getting to what the scripture teach.

The Bible says: "Then Satan entered into Judas."

Why? Satan was cast out of heaven, as I have said continuously.

There was only a partial fulfillment to Tyre.
The complete fulfillment was in Satan.
There is no way that all that was said could describe Tyre.
But they do describe Satan to a TEE.

If Lucifer was cast down to hell and the grave, and the worms eat him. How can he be satan?

Ezek 28:16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. (NIV)

And because of trading merchandise he was cast out of heaven, give me a break. The city of Tyre was a ship trading port.

There is no doubt about it that Isaiah 14, which speaks of "Lucifer," is referring to the king of Babylon. In fact, the name "Lucifer" does not even appear in the Hebrew text. The Hebrew behind this translation consists of three words meaning "Helel son of Shachar", which is probably a name for the morning star (Venus), and thus is translated as "son of the morning star" by most translations. The translation of "Lucifer" was carried over from the reading in Jerome's Latin Vulgate, not the Hebrew text.

 

[DHK]

Bob, the Holy Spirit by definition, is a spirit. Is He a person? Yes or No.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, the Holy Spirit by definition, is a spirit. Is He a person? Yes or No.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity, but still I haven't seen it, have you. I have seen the effects of it.

If the Holy Spirit is a person, is it confined to one place?

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Yes, the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity, but still I haven't seen it, have you. I have seen the effects of it.

If the Holy Spirit is a person, is it confined to one place?

BBob,

Yes, the Holy Spirit is a person.
You haven't seen him. But you haven't seen the wind or electricity either. You have seen the effects of the Spirit of God, and you have seen the effects of Satan and his demons. Satan also is a person, just as the Holy Spirit is a person. You can see neither one though both are persons. Why call one spirit a person and not the other?

The only reason the Holy Spirit is everywhere is because He is God. Satan imitates God. He pretends. He is ubitquitous. It seems as if he is everywhere as he uses his legions of demons to make it seem as if he is everywhere. However, the Holy Spirit is God, the third person of the triune Godhead, and is indeed everywhere. Omnipresence is one of His attributes.

Satan lied to Adam and Eve. Can a force lie? No.
Annanias lied to the Holy Spirit. Do you lie to a force? No.
In both instances the fact that one lies and the other is lied to, prove that both are persons.

Was Jesus confined to one place?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
--God is never confined to one place.

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes, the Holy Spirit is a person.
You haven't seen him. But you haven't seen the wind or electricity either. You have seen the effects of the Spirit of God, and you have seen the effects of Satan and his demons. Satan also is a person, just as the Holy Spirit is a person. You can see neither one though both are persons. Why call one spirit a person and not the other?

The only reason the Holy Spirit is everywhere is because He is God. Satan imitates God. He pretends. He is ubitquitous. It seems as if he is everywhere as he uses his legions of demons to make it seem as if he is everywhere. However, the Holy Spirit is God, the third person of the triune Godhead, and is indeed everywhere. Omnipresence is one of His attributes.

Satan lied to Adam and Eve. Can a force lie? No.
Annanias lied to the Holy Spirit. Do you lie to a force? No.
In both instances the fact that one lies and the other is lied to, prove that both are persons.

Was Jesus confined to one place?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
--God is never confined to one place.

Satan is not confined to one place either. He is everywhere. I can't think of a place he is not, except the Kingdom of God.

 

[webdog]

Satan is not confined to one place either. He is everywhere. I can't think of a place he is not, except the Kingdom of God.

If he's not in the Kingdom...he's not everywhere

 

[DHK]

Satan is not confined to one place either. He is everywhere. I can't think of a place he is not, except the Kingdom of God.

Only God is omnipresent. If you believe your statement to be true, then you believe in more than one God. Is Satan God? Does he have the same attributes as God? No!!
He can only be at one place at one time.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Michael contended with the devil (Satan, in this case).
Michael could only be one place.
Satan could only be one place.
They both were in one place, in one battle, contending for the body of Moses. Neither one of them could be everywhere. Satan is simply a fallen angel.

 

[DHK]

Job 1:6-7 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Here also we see that Satan cannot be everywhere by his own admission. When God asked him where he had been. He admitted that he had been walking up and down in (the earth), and from going to and fro in the earth.
Satan had to move physically to get around.

 

[Brother Bob]

If he's not in the Kingdom...he's not everywhere

You did see the "except" didn't you Web......

BBob

 

[Brother Bob]

Only God is omnipresent. If you believe your statement to be true, then you believe in more than one God. Is Satan God? Does he have the same attributes as God? No!!
He can only be at one place at one time.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Michael contended with the devil (Satan, in this case).
Michael could only be one place.
Satan could only be one place.
They both were in one place, in one battle, contending for the body of Moses. Neither one of them could be everywhere. Satan is simply a fallen angel.

Prove it...........

 

[Brother Bob]

Job 1:6-7 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Here also we see that Satan cannot be everywhere by his own admission. When God asked him where he had been. He admitted that he had been walking up and down in (the earth), and from going to and fro in the earth.
Satan had to move physically to get around.

He is one fast mover..............

 

[DHK]

Prove it...........

What do I need to prove.
I quoted Scripture from the book of Jude.
Don't you believe it?

 

[webdog]

He is one fast mover..............

Since he was created outside time, unlike us, we don't know how he is able to move within and outside of time...but he is most definately not omnipresent. Only God holds that title.

 

[DHK]

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
--He can be bound, as a person can be bound.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
--He can be freed as a person can be freed.

1 Thessalonians 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
--The Holy Spirit directs and guides; Satan hinders. Both are persons.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
--In this case it was Satan influencing Annanias to lie to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Brother Bob]

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

This one defeats your own argument, for if he worketh (present tense) in the children, shows he is in different places at the same time, or at least his demons are.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
--He can be bound, as a person can be bound.

While he is bound, is there sin? Or is it a time of peace and holiness?

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
--He can be freed as a person can be freed.

Does it really matter to God to be able to bind him, that he be one person? That does not prove anything.

1 Thessalonians 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
--The Holy Spirit directs and guides; Satan hinders. Both are persons.

So, you believe that while Paul was being hindered, no one else was being tempted of the devil, that is nonsense?

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
--In this case it was Satan influencing Annanias to lie to the Holy Spirit.

Again, while satan was influencing Annanias and his wife, you really believe no one on earth was not being tempted at the exact same time. Come on DHK; you know better than that. It sure would be a better world, if only one person could be tempted by satan one at a time.

If that were true, when we saw someone being tempted, we would jump straight up and down, knowing that we were free from satan for the time being. Nonsense.


BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Since he was created outside time, unlike us, we don't know how he is able to move within and outside of time...but he is most definately not omnipresent. Only God holds that title.

If he is outside of time, what would hinder him from being everywhere? He does have demons you know and I am sure has enough to do the job he wants done.

When Jesus was here they said this one has a devil, that one has a devil, you have a devil. He does not seemed to be hindered to me at all now, but will be one day.

The following scripture seems to say, he can be everywhere at once.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

BBob,

 

[webdog]

If he is outside of time, what would hinder him from being everywhere? He does have demons you know and I am sure has enough to do the job he wants done.

BBob,

God is omnipresent...satan is not. This is a title reserved for God alone. If satan is omnipresent, as DHK pointed out, he would also be god.

 

[DHK]

Again, while satan was influencing Annanias and his wife, you really believe no one on earth was not being tempted at the exact same time. Come on DHK; you know better than that. It sure would be a better world, if only one person could be tempted by satan one at a time.

If that were true, when we saw someone being tempted, we would jump straight up and down, knowing that we were free from satan for the time being. Nonsense.
BBob,

You do err not knowing the Scriptures.
If it was actually Satan that was tempting Annanias, then the rest of the world at that time would be subject to the temptations of the demons of Satan, not by Satan himself. Satan is not God. He is not omnipresent. Why are you determined to give him the status of deity.

 

[Brother Bob]

You do err not knowing the Scriptures.
If it was actually Satan that was tempting Annanias, then the rest of the world at that time would be subject to the temptations of the demons of Satan, not by Satan himself. Satan is not God. He is not omnipresent. Why are you determined to give him the status of deity.

I am not, he has enough demons to carry out his wishes.

I do not err, you do. We are no different than Paul, who had a thorn in his flesh, "the messenger of satan". We also have that thorn, to buffet us. Keeps us praying to God.

Scripture says that satan is a liar and the father of it. Do you actually believe just one lie is told at a time throughout the whole world.

Eph. 6:
10: Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

God is omnipresent...satan is not. This is a title reserved for God alone. If satan is omnipresent, as DHK pointed out, he would also be god.

Do you believe Satan can be the deciever of the whole world at one time.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

so, he uses demons, evil spirits, he still gets the job done.

I know he is not Omnipresence, but he must be "multipresence".


Bbob,