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Satan Murdered Jesus - The Scripture and Theology

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Martin Marprelate

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I am saying "no" to your walking back of your previous claim that the mocking was really Satan desiring that Jesus not die.
Perhaps you will supply the reference to this claim or apologize? I have consistently said that the mocking was really Satan desiring that Jesus not die, and I have never denied that the people were mocking. The Scripture clearly says that they were mocking (e.g. Mark 14:31) and hurling insults, but that does not mean that their mocking was not a temptation for our Lord to shut their mouths by coming down from the cross.

I have 'walked back' on nothing. I expect an apology. I'm not holding my breath though.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
One of us is certainly guilty of hypocrisy, but I think you'll find it's you.
I have been looking at threads on this forum that have been closed recently, and noticed the following.

Penal Substitution Atonement Question. Closed without warning after 147 posts. You contributed extensively to the thread and made the last post on it, so I presume that it was you who closed it.
The Classic View (just a summary). Started by you, and closed after 183 posts by @Salty.
Will People be condemned for not believing in Jesus .......? Closed by Salty after 199 posts.
Is death God's punishment for sin? Closed by Salty after 121 posts.

I have neither reported nor complained about any of these threads. The hypocrisy is all on your side. I only ask why this thread is still going strong after 277 posts.
Oh...I did close threads that I were very active in. And you reported my closing even though I provided a link to a new thread to continue the discussion. You said that my closing the thread was abuse since I was involved. The Staff disagreed because I started another thread.

That is what I mean by hypocrisy. If I close the thread you report it whining about me closing a thread in which I was actively participating. If I leave it open you whine about that too.


So what is it?

I'll let you make the call. Close this thread, even though I am involved, or leave it open?
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Please provide the passage where Peter “explained” the men who killed Jesus were doing the work of Satan?

Thank you in advance

peace to you
You misunderstood my post.

Peter explained that those who desired to kill Jesus did in fact put Jesus to death.

Jesus told those Jews that the reason they desired to kill Him was that they listened to Satan, desired what Satan desired, and were doing Satan's will.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Perhaps you will supply the reference to this claim or apologize? I have consistently said that the mocking was really Satan desiring that Jesus not die, and I have never denied that the people were mocking. The Scripture clearly says that they were mocking (e.g. Mark 14:31) and hurling insults, but that does not mean that their mocking was not a temptation for our Lord to shut their mouths by coming down from the cross.

I have 'walked back' on nothing. I expect an apology. I'm not holding my breath though.
You elevate Satan while diminishing God.

Have you not yet realized that there are no passages that state Satan wanted to prevent Christ's death?

But there are passages that state Satan entered Judas to turn Jesus over to be killed. There are passages that state that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because they desired the things Satan desired. There are passages that state that those Jews who desired to kill Jesus put Him to death.

Why do you insist on elevating Satan.....the Adversary?????
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
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Oh...I did close threads that I were very active in. And you reported my closing even though I provided a link to a new thread to continue the discussion. You said that my closing the thread was abuse since I was involved. The Staff disagreed because I started another thread.
That was at least two years ago, probably more. You closed the thread well before it was due to close to prevent me from replying to one of your posts. That is what I mean by hypocrisy.
That is what I mean by hypocrisy. If I close the thread you report it whining about me closing a thread in which I was actively participating. If I leave it open you whine about that too.


So what is it?

I'll let you make the call. Close this thread, even though I am involved, or leave it open?
Why is this thread still open? If it is standard practice to keep threads running for 280+ posts, keep it going by all means. If it is not, then give your staff, sorry, colleagues, permission to do so.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
That was at least two years ago, probably more. You closed the thread well before it was due to close to prevent me from replying to one of your posts. That is what I mean by hypocrisy.

Why is this thread still open? If it is standard practice to keep threads running for 280+ posts, keep it going by all means. If it is not, then give your staff, sorry, colleagues, permission to do so.
Like I said - you report my closing of these threads as abuse. When I leave them open you whine.

So you decide.

I will close this thread at your request due to length.

Or

I will leave it open since I am involved.

YOUR CHOICE this time. Take the wheel. Reply and I'll do it.

Just for goodness sake stop whining.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I am not the one saying that Satan murdered Christ. I wonder which of us is saying that. :Laugh
I never said you were. God said that. You elevated Satan to the status of God (God vs Satan rather than Satan vs man).

Affirming that wanting to kill Jesus is satanic is affirming Jesus' words (not elevating Satan). Christ lay down His own life, so I'm not giving you a pass on your "Scripture vs Scripture" method. All of Scripture is true.


What we see is Satan's wrath. He knows his appointed time is short. He knows God's words are true. He knows he cannot defeat God.

But you elevate Satan.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Why is this thread still open?
Because you are leaving it open.

When I close threads I'm involved in you report it, whining that I shouldn't close threads I'm involved in. When I don't you whine on the open forum.

This time it is up to you.

Close it or leave it open? Set a precedent. What do you want.....reply "open or close" and I'll do it.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
You misunderstood my post.

Peter explained that those who desired to kill Jesus did in fact put Jesus to death…...
Well, this is what you stated in pist #278…


……
Peter explained that it was those men, doing the work of Satan, who put Jesus to death. …..
So, I didn’t misunderstand what you posted. I asked for a passage that supported the statement that Peter explained the men who killed Jesus were doing the work of Satan.

I will accept you simply mis-spoke.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant.

peace to you
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I never said you were. God said that. You elevated Satan to the status of God (God vs Satan rather than Satan vs man).
Now you are floundering all over the place. God said that Satan murdered Christ?????
Affirming that wanting to kill Jesus is satanic is affirming Jesus' words (not elevating Satan). Christ lay [sic] down His own life, so I'm not giving you a pass on your "Scripture vs Scripture" method.
One of us is saying that Satan murdered Christ out of one corner of his mouth and that Christ laid down His own life out of the other. That person isn't me.
All of Scripture is true.
Indeed it is. It's good that we can agree on something.

What we see is Satan's wrath. He knows his appointed time is short. He knows God's words are true. He knows he cannot defeat God.
Your chronology is up the creek, where it joins the rest of your theology. That (Revelation 12:12) comes after Satan has been cast down, and since 'they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb' (v.11), it has to be after the death and resurrection of our Lord.
But you elevate Satan.
:Rolleyes:Sleep[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Because you are leaving it open.

When I close threads I'm involved in you report it, whining that I shouldn't close threads I'm involved in. When I don't you whine on the open forum.

This time it is up to you.

Close it or leave it open? Set a precedent. What do you want.....reply "open or close" and I'll do it.
I have answered this already. And why are you the only mod who can close a thread?
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
According to scripture, believers are adopted as God’s children.

Scripture is full of synonymy. Adopted, born of the Spirit, born from above, born from Jerusalem above, born of God, begotten by God - all synonymous, meaning the same thing.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten. Jn 1:13 YLT
if ye know that he is righteous, know ye that every one doing the righteousness, of him hath been begotten. 1 Jn 2:29 YLT
9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. 1 Jn 3:9 YLT
7 Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God 1 Jn 4:7 YLT
1 Every one who is believing that Jesus is the Christ, of God he hath been begotten, and every one who is loving Him who did beget, doth love also him who is begotten of Him
4 because every one who is begotten of God doth overcome the world, and this is the victory that did overcome the world -- our faith
18 We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him 1 Jn 5

The Serpent's seed has been persecuting the Woman's seed since the day Cain killed Abel.

@taisto nails it here:

"The Israel of God. The elect lady of 2 John 1. The woman is the children of the Promise from Adam and Eve to the end of the age. From the very beginning Satan has tried to stop the Lamb of God from Redeeming humans and unshackling sinners from the chains in which Satan has bound them. Satan hates the Church because they remind him that he has lost."
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No. I am saying that you reject that the children of their father the Devil put Jesus to death by the hands of godless men.

It is important because the remainder of the passage in Acts 2 depends on understanding that Christ willingly lay down His life to be killed by those doing the work of Satan.
Me thinks you are waffling.

It should not be hard to see that if God let someone take His life, then He could not say no one took His life.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
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Still have no clue what you mean by the phrase “taking his life”. I don’t think you know what you mean either, to be honest.

When Jesus says it, he means he is willingly and voluntarily going to his murder, and he has the power to stop it from happening at any time. But no question there are sinners who are murdering him.
Nothing more I can say. I do not believe "taking his life" is beyond your comprehension.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Me thinks you are waffling.

It should not be hard to see that if God let someone take His life, then He could not say no one took His life.
Not so. Jesus lay down His own life - it was not taken from Him. But Jesus did not, as you have suggested, commit suicide.

He lay down His life, nobody robbed Him of His life. But He was led as a lamb to slaughter.

He was delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put to death.

You cannot reconcile those verses, so you change one.

But there is no contradiction. Jesus was not robbed of His life. He lay His life down willingly, nobody took it from Him. And those men doing Satan's will put Him to death.
 
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