savedbymercy
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dhk
is that your excuse for not receiving the truth ?
is that your excuse for not receiving the truth ?
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Saved by Grace not of works !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
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There was no truth for anyone to receive in that post.
Don't be ridiculous.
What was there was a straight denial of Scripture. You outright denied the truth set forth in Romans 4:4. Just as if you lied! Shameful!
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
Of course you would say that, since you reject the Truth in it !
Of course you would say that, since you reject the Truth in it !
The truth:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
1. Faith is not a work.
2. He that does no work but believes (has faith) on Christ is the one that is justified.
3. It is HIS FAITH (not the faith that is given him) that is counted for righteousness.
4. There is no faith given to the person counted for righteousness or that is justified, but his own faith (not a work) justifies him.
5. Thus your argument is totally and completely defeated, and is the very opposite of what you said in 4:4. Why do you misrepresent the Scriptures?
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
Romans 4:5 is the Truth. However I am not dsputing Rom 4:5 but you and salvation by works doctrine you espouse, you teach that a man is saed or Justified because he believes, and believing is something man does, it is keeping a commandment 1 Jn 3:23
Also I showed you in post 72 how that if salvation is given because of your faith, then you make it a reward, not grace. Then you contradict Rom 4:4
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5 is the Truth. However I am not dsputing Rom 4:5 but you and salvation by works doctrine you espouse, you teach that a man is saed or Justified because he believes, and believing is something man does, it is keeping a commandment 1 Jn 3:23
Also I showed you in post 72 how that if salvation is given because of your faith, then you make it a reward, not grace. Then you contradict Rom 4:4
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
You cannot dissect verse four from verse five. In the Greek there were no verse divisions. It is one thought.
Faith is not a work.
That is the entire teaching of verses four and five.
To him that worketh not but has faith, he is the one that is justified.
It is his faith, not his works, that justifies him.
That teaching is plain as day, and you won't accept it, but rather deny it.
savedbymercy
New Member
Post 72 is a good example of:
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
You have taken Romans 4:4, denied the meaning thereof, and tried to make it mean something it doesn't. It is truly pitiful.
savedbymercy
New Member
When are the Elect saved ?
I have heard it being said that Election is not Salvation but unto Salvation. That is True if we are speaking of conversion or experiential salvation, our personal experience of it, but it is not altogether true, because conversion or experiential salvation depends upon already being saved by the Eternal Purpose of God, even before the world began. This means one is saved, sins forgiven, no condemnation, before they become actual sinners, in Adam and in themselves, by the purpose of God 2 Tim 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
God has saved us according to His Own Purpose and Grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. This is God's own Purpose of Election, the Election of Grace Rom 9:11
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
Rom 11:5
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Folks, by this Divine Purpose alone, the Purpose of Election, every elect individual is Saved from the penalty of sin, even before they sin !
Now that is being saved by Election by Divine Purpose.
Also along with that Divine Purpose, The Elect are saved legally before the foundation of the world, and in time by the Cross of Christ. You see, legally before the foundation of the World, Christ according to the engagements of the Everlasting Covenant, was made a legal Surety for all those He was to die for in time, at the Cross ! It was before the foundation of the world that Christ became covenentally obligated for the sins of the elect they would commit in time in Adam and in themselves. The Cross was the Legal basis for the Surety obligation before the world began, and so it is written that He was ordained before the foundation 1 Pet 1:20
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
And thats why His Blood is called the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20
20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Its an Everlasting Covenant because it originated from Everlasting, it is the Eternal Purpose Paul writes of Eph 3:11 and the Promises of it were then made Titus 1:2
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Ps 89:3-4,29,36
3I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4Thy seed will I establish for ever[Eternal Life], and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
29His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
36His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
The Elect of God, the Seed of Christ, the Antitypical David, have always been sure of Eternal Life based upon the Everlasting Covenant !
I have heard it being said that Election is not Salvation but unto Salvation. That is True if we are speaking of conversion or experiential salvation, our personal experience of it, but it is not altogether true, because conversion or experiential salvation depends upon already being saved by the Eternal Purpose of God, even before the world began. This means one is saved, sins forgiven, no condemnation, before they become actual sinners, in Adam and in themselves, by the purpose of God 2 Tim 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
God has saved us according to His Own Purpose and Grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. This is God's own Purpose of Election, the Election of Grace Rom 9:11
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
Rom 11:5
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Folks, by this Divine Purpose alone, the Purpose of Election, every elect individual is Saved from the penalty of sin, even before they sin !
Now that is being saved by Election by Divine Purpose.
Also along with that Divine Purpose, The Elect are saved legally before the foundation of the world, and in time by the Cross of Christ. You see, legally before the foundation of the World, Christ according to the engagements of the Everlasting Covenant, was made a legal Surety for all those He was to die for in time, at the Cross ! It was before the foundation of the world that Christ became covenentally obligated for the sins of the elect they would commit in time in Adam and in themselves. The Cross was the Legal basis for the Surety obligation before the world began, and so it is written that He was ordained before the foundation 1 Pet 1:20
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
And thats why His Blood is called the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20
20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Its an Everlasting Covenant because it originated from Everlasting, it is the Eternal Purpose Paul writes of Eph 3:11 and the Promises of it were then made Titus 1:2
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Ps 89:3-4,29,36
3I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4Thy seed will I establish for ever[Eternal Life], and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
29His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
36His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
The Elect of God, the Seed of Christ, the Antitypical David, have always been sure of Eternal Life based upon the Everlasting Covenant !
savedbymercy
New Member
When are the Elect saved ? continued !
So the Elect are saved Eternally by the Divine Purpose 2 Tim 1:9, and they are saved Legally by the Everlasting Covenant, Christ having been set up for them as an Surety, and Legally by the Cross as an event that happened in time, and all of this before they have Faith, and even before they are born sinners, and enemies of God !
Now Lastly, they are saved experientially by New Birth and by Faith, believing of the Truth. Thats what Paul means by 2 Thess 2:13
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Thats Salvation by Grace through Faith [ The belief of the Truth]. That is experimental salvation or conversion, this aspect of salvation, yes faith or belief of the Truth is indispensable !
The word belief here is the greek word pistis and is translated faith 239 times :
conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
a) relating to God
1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
In this respect Faith is necessary for Salvation, belief in the Truth ! Now Election is unto Salvation in this respect !
This aspect of Salvation is an Applicatory Work of the Spirit of God, and Faith is His producing in one, His Fruit, God said Hosea 14:8
Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.
by the Sanctifying Work of the Spirit, they are also born again by Him.
However, there was never a time in the history of any sinner that Christ contracted to die for, they were not forgiven of their sins, reconciled to God, and Justified in His sight, based solely on the Covenant engagements of their Head, Surety and Mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ. So yes it is a time in their salvation History that Faith is Essential to be saved [ experientially and consciously. But if you or i teach that Faith is Essential as a condition to get saved,we are liars and preach a False Gospel, simple as that !
So the Elect are saved Eternally by the Divine Purpose 2 Tim 1:9, and they are saved Legally by the Everlasting Covenant, Christ having been set up for them as an Surety, and Legally by the Cross as an event that happened in time, and all of this before they have Faith, and even before they are born sinners, and enemies of God !
Now Lastly, they are saved experientially by New Birth and by Faith, believing of the Truth. Thats what Paul means by 2 Thess 2:13
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Thats Salvation by Grace through Faith [ The belief of the Truth]. That is experimental salvation or conversion, this aspect of salvation, yes faith or belief of the Truth is indispensable !
The word belief here is the greek word pistis and is translated faith 239 times :
conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
a) relating to God
1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
In this respect Faith is necessary for Salvation, belief in the Truth ! Now Election is unto Salvation in this respect !
This aspect of Salvation is an Applicatory Work of the Spirit of God, and Faith is His producing in one, His Fruit, God said Hosea 14:8
Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.
by the Sanctifying Work of the Spirit, they are also born again by Him.
However, there was never a time in the history of any sinner that Christ contracted to die for, they were not forgiven of their sins, reconciled to God, and Justified in His sight, based solely on the Covenant engagements of their Head, Surety and Mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ. So yes it is a time in their salvation History that Faith is Essential to be saved [ experientially and consciously. But if you or i teach that Faith is Essential as a condition to get saved,we are liars and preach a False Gospel, simple as that !
Judging from other posts, I really don’t think that savedbymercy cares.
He changes passages to mean what he thinks that the authors intended it to mean. I know people interpret things differently, but he is really off base in that he doesn’t even hesitate to rewrite scripture to suit his interpretation.
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savedbymercy
New Member
A sure mark of false religion !
A sure indication of a false religion, no matter how much with their lips they honor God and Christ [Isa 29:13] and their message of salvation seems to be true [ Matt 24:24; 2 Cor 11:13-15], yet without fail, they will add the works of man, something man must do [to perform (an act, duty, role, etc.)] like believe, or accept, in order to get saved; In some kind of way, Salvation must be conditioned on man ! Every false way or religion teaches this, even if they never say it , or even if they deny it, the inference is telling !
Folks anyone teaching that Salvation is conditioned in any way, shape or form upon man doing something, is Antichrist; for Christ alone saves a sinner from A to Z. Every aspect of One's Salvation, past present and future is solely conditioned on Christ's Work of the Cross plus nothing !
So you religionists who appeal to Eph 2:8 in support of your false conclusion that faith is a condition to perform by man in order to get saved, then you should consider the very next verse that reads Eph 2:9
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Not of works means conditions or performances by man, lest any man should boast !
A sure indication of a false religion, no matter how much with their lips they honor God and Christ [Isa 29:13] and their message of salvation seems to be true [ Matt 24:24; 2 Cor 11:13-15], yet without fail, they will add the works of man, something man must do [to perform (an act, duty, role, etc.)] like believe, or accept, in order to get saved; In some kind of way, Salvation must be conditioned on man ! Every false way or religion teaches this, even if they never say it , or even if they deny it, the inference is telling !
Folks anyone teaching that Salvation is conditioned in any way, shape or form upon man doing something, is Antichrist; for Christ alone saves a sinner from A to Z. Every aspect of One's Salvation, past present and future is solely conditioned on Christ's Work of the Cross plus nothing !
So you religionists who appeal to Eph 2:8 in support of your false conclusion that faith is a condition to perform by man in order to get saved, then you should consider the very next verse that reads Eph 2:9
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Not of works means conditions or performances by man, lest any man should boast !
savedbymercy
New Member
Choose Life !
Deut 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
I am sure this gets the attention of those who promote the error of man's freewill. These dreamers deny that all men by nature are dead in sin and slaves to sin, the flesh and the devil, but believe however they by their own freewill can choose to serve God, from such Scriptures they twist as Josh 24:15
15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Men in our pride and self righteousness believe because a choice is given, we have the ability to do so, that is to make a good and holy choice Jer 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
You give a meat eating lion the choice to choose between a fat juicy zebra steak to eat and a bowl of salad, which one will he choose every time ? The zebra steak f course, and thats because he is being governed by his nature, with this in mind, we can understand Jere 13:23 above !
The natural man cannot make choices that Glorify God, because he is dead to God !
The scripture in Jer speaks again about the heart of the natural man Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? We by Nature cannot know how wicked our hearts really are and how deceitful until a New Birth takes Place !
Most people read this verse about the wickedness of the human heart and immediately think of people who are murderers and fornicators and thieves and drunks, which deeds are wicked, but the verse also describes the very sincerely religious, the moralist, the kind hearted toward our fellow man and etc, and thats how the heart is deceitful, because by nature we see these things not as wicked. Men see these things as good and things that recommend us to God, however when it comes to having a Right relationship with God, and these things be our Hearts Trust, they are wicked works and dead works before God. They are the dead works that the Blood of Christ purges His Elect from Heb 9:14
14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
The Blood is applied to all the Elect, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit 1 Pet 1:1-2
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Sprinkling means application of the blood. The word sprinkle means:
a sprinkling (purification)
a) blood of sprinkling
1) i.e. appointed for sprinkling (serving to purify)
There is nothing an unregenerate heart can do to please God, so Paul wrote Rom 8:8
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
They cannot, so they will not ! Our repentance in the flesh cannot please God, Our Faith or believing in the flesh cannot please God, nothing can, and yet many deceived souls believe that while unregenerate, they exercised faith that pleases God Heb 11:6, and that gave them a right to everlasting life, in direct opposition to God's Word. So again Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
We cannot choose Life ! It must be Given by Grace !
Deut 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
I am sure this gets the attention of those who promote the error of man's freewill. These dreamers deny that all men by nature are dead in sin and slaves to sin, the flesh and the devil, but believe however they by their own freewill can choose to serve God, from such Scriptures they twist as Josh 24:15
15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Men in our pride and self righteousness believe because a choice is given, we have the ability to do so, that is to make a good and holy choice Jer 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
You give a meat eating lion the choice to choose between a fat juicy zebra steak to eat and a bowl of salad, which one will he choose every time ? The zebra steak f course, and thats because he is being governed by his nature, with this in mind, we can understand Jere 13:23 above !
The natural man cannot make choices that Glorify God, because he is dead to God !
The scripture in Jer speaks again about the heart of the natural man Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? We by Nature cannot know how wicked our hearts really are and how deceitful until a New Birth takes Place !
Most people read this verse about the wickedness of the human heart and immediately think of people who are murderers and fornicators and thieves and drunks, which deeds are wicked, but the verse also describes the very sincerely religious, the moralist, the kind hearted toward our fellow man and etc, and thats how the heart is deceitful, because by nature we see these things not as wicked. Men see these things as good and things that recommend us to God, however when it comes to having a Right relationship with God, and these things be our Hearts Trust, they are wicked works and dead works before God. They are the dead works that the Blood of Christ purges His Elect from Heb 9:14
14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
The Blood is applied to all the Elect, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit 1 Pet 1:1-2
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Sprinkling means application of the blood. The word sprinkle means:
a sprinkling (purification)
a) blood of sprinkling
1) i.e. appointed for sprinkling (serving to purify)
There is nothing an unregenerate heart can do to please God, so Paul wrote Rom 8:8
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
They cannot, so they will not ! Our repentance in the flesh cannot please God, Our Faith or believing in the flesh cannot please God, nothing can, and yet many deceived souls believe that while unregenerate, they exercised faith that pleases God Heb 11:6, and that gave them a right to everlasting life, in direct opposition to God's Word. So again Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
We cannot choose Life ! It must be Given by Grace !
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Salvation is the gift of God. It is a gift that needs to be received by faith, as the verse indicates. Faith is not a work, and never was. One does not DO faith. It cannot be done. It is not a work. But we do accept this gift of salvation by faith. That is the only way salvation can be obtained.
It is not of works, but it is of faith.
"Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God" (Rom.5:1).
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk quotes
Ok, I have no problem with that quote it is biblical !
No Problem with that, and so is faith !
Faith is the Gift of God , for it accompanies Salvation in the New Birth !
Faith is a work, a fruit of the Spirit and an act of Obedience, always has been. Faith means to believe, believing is something man does, the keeping of a commandment 1 Jn 3:23
23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Maybe not in your religion, but in the bible people do believe ! 1 Pet 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
The word believe 'do believe" is the greek word pisteuō and is from the same word
pistis which is used for the word faith in the clause "that your faith and hope might be in God"
It is something they did. You can deny it until you are blue in the face, the Truth remains !
Ok, I have no problem with that quote it is biblical !
No Problem with that, and so is faith !
Faith is the Gift of God , for it accompanies Salvation in the New Birth !
Faith is a work, a fruit of the Spirit and an act of Obedience, always has been. Faith means to believe, believing is something man does, the keeping of a commandment 1 Jn 3:23
23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Maybe not in your religion, but in the bible people do believe ! 1 Pet 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
The word believe 'do believe" is the greek word pisteuō and is from the same word
pistis which is used for the word faith in the clause "that your faith and hope might be in God"
It is something they did. You can deny it until you are blue in the face, the Truth remains !
ALL of us are born by nature sinners, seperated by God, and later reconfirmed by our choosing sin...
So God has no need to 'damn" those whom he did not saved by his grace, as they are already lost apart from God!
He predestines JUST the saved, others left to own desires!
I use the same illustration over and over again but it never sinks in.
Will you hire me and pay me for the "works" of hope and faith? How much will you pay me for my "hoping"? my having faith? Don't you see how ridiculous your position is? They are not works by any stretch of the imagination. You can't DO hope, or DO faith. They are intangibles. If they were things that you could do, I could make a lot of money "walking by faith," but no one will pay me for it, because it is not a work. Who will hire me for my faith, or for my hope? They aren't works. They are not something you DO. They are intangibles. You can't grasp onto hope or faith.
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
They are insignicant when you put them against scripture truth !
They are insignicant when you put them against scripture truth !
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
Scripture command or imperative Ps 42:5
Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.
Scripture command or imperative Ps 42:5
Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.
I do use Scripture such as Eph.2:8,9. The fact that you ignore it is significant.
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