saturneptune
New Member
So what is for dinner tonight?
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Saved from what ?
- Thread starter pinoybaptist
- Start date
Again, no comments about the OP?
Let's be clear:
According to the OP, The following statement is true:
"It is not necessary in this life for a man to repent and Call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in order to receive Eternal Salvation."
No comments? This blows right past us like a breeze? We don't particularly consider this a worthy topic to discuss or debate?
Let's be clear:
According to the OP, The following statement is true:
"It is not necessary in this life for a man to repent and Call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in order to receive Eternal Salvation."
No comments? This blows right past us like a breeze? We don't particularly consider this a worthy topic to discuss or debate?
quantumfaith
Active Member
Brother Larry, you're asking the wrong one. Brother SN doesn't think, he can't. Wasn't it Tolstoy who stated, "I think, therefore I am"? If that's the case, then Brother SN isn't, because he doesn't think....
It was Rene' Descartes....."I think therefore I am. (French Mathematician and philosopher).
DrJamesAch
New Member
In all of the verses you sited, these are reference who "lie in wait to deceive" for the purpose of tricking believers into denying Christ. Has nothing to do with a believer using tactics to catch another person being dishonest.
Nathan did it to catch King David, and I did it to catch several others who were merely disagreeing with anything I posted and several others including Iconoclast fell for it and contradicted their own views. Get over it, your buddies got busted trying to refute what they THOUGHT were my views, and instead they were contradicting material from their own websites.
When you have 50 Calvinists ganging up on a few Non Calvinists, lying about them, misstating their views, it was necessary to prove that all they were trying to do was win a debate, and I proved how dishonest they were by showing their willingness to indict their own theology. Iconoclasts was the worst because he flat out denied all 4 points I raised in one post, and then admitted all but 1 in another response when all I did was re-worded the first post and the only differences were semantic.
I get that you fellas don't like it when there's Bible believers on here that actually believe the Bible, and can put Calvinists in their place, but seriously, you all need some new material.
And no, Paul is not being sarcistic. He said "and using craftiness, I CAUGHT YOU with guile". Stop being the typical Calvinist that makes the Bible say whatever you want it to whenever it conflicts with your theories, dogmas or creeds.
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DrJamesAch
New Member
You tell me. Why don't you grow a pair and post the same thing in public that you sent in a PM
saturneptune
New Member
Thanks, but I have already eaten.
DrJamesAch
New Member
Norman Geisler said it best on that quote by Rene Descartes (pronounced 'de cart'):
"The Calvinists put Decart before De horse"
saturneptune
New Member
Oh, do you like horse also, maybe as an appetizer?
Quick & completely honest answer .....YES!
But on to Penoys OP.....RIGHT ON BRO:thumbsup::love2:
At least you are more honest than Geisler. He is no Calvinist in any way,shape or form.
Did you read Pinoy's OP? Do you understand what he is saying?
completely....did you?
Yes.........and BTW. I appreciate your candor in your response to my question about how deep the divide is:
Perhaps you don't understand what Pinoy is asserting, that's why I ask. He is asserting that someone can refuse to confess the risen Christ as their Lord and Saviour and still go to heaven.
Ignore the flowery portions where he exhorts sanctification etc.....That's all good. But that isn't the pertinent stuff. What he asserted there, is that someone might live in rebellion their ENTIRE LIFE and NEVER, at ANY POINT, confess Jesus Christ nor "call upon the name of the Lord".........and still spend eternity in a blessed state of Salvation. That's kinda signifigant really IMO......and not precisely something to be breezed past.
KYRED has already indicated that Penoy is more than competent to explain his beliefs & since he is author of this OP I will leave it his competent hands.:smilewinkgrin:
quantumfaith
Active Member
de cart gave us the foundation for the x-y coordinate system. A revolution in graphing equations and functions. Sorry, it is the teacher in me. psalms109:31
Active Member
We should just tear out Hebrews and James out of the Bible. It was not meant for us.
Was it Martin Luther that wanted to get rid of books out of the Bible?
"Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation
Main article: Antilegomena
Luther made an attempt to remove the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the canon (notably, he perceived them to go against certain Protestant doctrines such as sola gratia and sola fide), but this was not generally accepted among his followers. However, these books are ordered last in the German-language Luther Bible to this day.[4]
If Luther's negative view of these books were based only upon the fact that their canonicity was disputed in early times, 2 Peter might have been included among them, because this epistle was doubted more than any other in ancient times. However, the prefaces that Luther affixed to these four books makes it evident that his low view of them was more due to his theological reservations than with any historical investigation of the canon."
If we was in fact chosen before the foundation of the world they would already be saved. That is what regeneration before faith leads to. It is a residue left over from hyper-Calvinism, except it is O.K. to preach the Gospel to those already saved.
I call them extreme Calvinist, which I have no part of.
I believe we are chosen in Christ so what remains is to enter His rest to be chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world to enter Christ is to enter His rest. Paul letter is to believers, does a believer still need milk or should you talk to them as if they are in Christ. A believer is chosen before the foundation of the world not an unbeliever.
I have no problem seeing me as a dog who begged at His table a people who was not His people who He included when I heard the Gospel of my salvation having believed and now treats me as one of His own.
Was it Martin Luther that wanted to get rid of books out of the Bible?
"Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation
Main article: Antilegomena
Luther made an attempt to remove the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the canon (notably, he perceived them to go against certain Protestant doctrines such as sola gratia and sola fide), but this was not generally accepted among his followers. However, these books are ordered last in the German-language Luther Bible to this day.[4]
If Luther's negative view of these books were based only upon the fact that their canonicity was disputed in early times, 2 Peter might have been included among them, because this epistle was doubted more than any other in ancient times. However, the prefaces that Luther affixed to these four books makes it evident that his low view of them was more due to his theological reservations than with any historical investigation of the canon."
If we was in fact chosen before the foundation of the world they would already be saved. That is what regeneration before faith leads to. It is a residue left over from hyper-Calvinism, except it is O.K. to preach the Gospel to those already saved.
I call them extreme Calvinist, which I have no part of.
I believe we are chosen in Christ so what remains is to enter His rest to be chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world to enter Christ is to enter His rest. Paul letter is to believers, does a believer still need milk or should you talk to them as if they are in Christ. A believer is chosen before the foundation of the world not an unbeliever.
I have no problem seeing me as a dog who begged at His table a people who was not His people who He included when I heard the Gospel of my salvation having believed and now treats me as one of His own.
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IC...in other words.....you disagree with Sola Gratia.
Amazing the block that the church of Rome has created on the minds of her children, even among those who say they are adherents of the Doctrine of Grace.
Again, I reiterate, ETERNAL SALVATION IS PASSIVE.
It was purposed by God for His elect and He alone, in the Persons of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, secured it, NO THANKS TO ANYONE.
I DARE ANYONE RIGHT NOW, TO PUT IN PRINT, THAT HIS ETERNAL SALVATION WAS A COOPERATIVE ACT BETWEEN HIM AND GOD.
HIS FAITH, AND GOD'S WILL.
SAY IT IN PRINT !!!
And after that, sing of God's grace and talk of God's mercy.
Again, I reiterate, ETERNAL SALVATION IS PASSIVE.
It was purposed by God for His elect and He alone, in the Persons of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, secured it, NO THANKS TO ANYONE.
I DARE ANYONE RIGHT NOW, TO PUT IN PRINT, THAT HIS ETERNAL SALVATION WAS A COOPERATIVE ACT BETWEEN HIM AND GOD.
HIS FAITH, AND GOD'S WILL.
SAY IT IN PRINT !!!
And after that, sing of God's grace and talk of God's mercy.
I am amazed at the thickness of the block in the minds of most people here, even those who claim to be adherents to the doctrine(s) of grace.
or maybe it is my inability to express myself well enough in a language I was not born and raised in.
Let me try again.
BEFORE anything else existed in the entire universe, God IS. He was answerable to no one. The entire heavens is His.
He was, and is, and always will be, its owner.
He built the universe, and in one teeny weeny part of it, created the Earth. And in one teeny weeny spot He created man, and woman out of man. The Scripture indicates that BEFORE He created man, there was rebellion in Heaven, where He created angels. This rebellion was led by an angel, and we all know his name.
The same scriptures in two words INDICATED that even in Heaven, ELECTION was God's prerogative.
Being OMNISCIENT, He knew that CREATED BEINGS tend to rebel against their creator, therefore He SUPERSEDED Satan's ploy by electing angels unto His Kingdom in Heaven. (1 Timothy 5:21) and leaving a third of them to their follies, therefore being taken by Satan’s wiles.
When He created man He KNEW man will fall, unless you all also want to deny Him His omniscience, as you deny Him His ownership and being the SOLE SOURCE of sovereign and absolute GRACE. His purpose in creating man was for them to be His gift to His Son, and Him to them, and to showcase His MERCY to all His creation, preserved or damned.
or maybe it is my inability to express myself well enough in a language I was not born and raised in.
Let me try again.
BEFORE anything else existed in the entire universe, God IS. He was answerable to no one. The entire heavens is His.
He was, and is, and always will be, its owner.
He built the universe, and in one teeny weeny part of it, created the Earth. And in one teeny weeny spot He created man, and woman out of man. The Scripture indicates that BEFORE He created man, there was rebellion in Heaven, where He created angels. This rebellion was led by an angel, and we all know his name.
The same scriptures in two words INDICATED that even in Heaven, ELECTION was God's prerogative.
Being OMNISCIENT, He knew that CREATED BEINGS tend to rebel against their creator, therefore He SUPERSEDED Satan's ploy by electing angels unto His Kingdom in Heaven. (1 Timothy 5:21) and leaving a third of them to their follies, therefore being taken by Satan’s wiles.
When He created man He KNEW man will fall, unless you all also want to deny Him His omniscience, as you deny Him His ownership and being the SOLE SOURCE of sovereign and absolute GRACE. His purpose in creating man was for them to be His gift to His Son, and Him to them, and to showcase His MERCY to all His creation, preserved or damned.
Therefore knowing about the impending fall of man, He PURPOSED AHEAD OF TIME, from the foundation of the world, to RESERVE UNTO HIMSELF a definite number of people from this soon to fall creation, and COVENANTED WITH HIMSELF to redeem this people with His own blood to be shed IN TIME by Himself in the Person of His Son Jesus Christ. Being GOD, and the only Being in the entire universe with an absolute will, in His mind, these future things HAVE ALREADY COME TO PASS, therefore we find such phrases as the Lamb slain FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, which presupposes blood spilled from the same point. How else could He justify the presence of Enoch and Elijah in Heaven before the shedding of the blood of His Lamb at Calvary, in time?
IN HIS OWN DUE TIME, He did come to earth, in the form of a man, in the Person of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, and fulfilled the law, and laws, ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSES of separating a people unto Himself, FOR THEM TO BE WITH HIM IN ETERNITY. He saved them NOT FOR TIME and He did all these INDEPENDENT OF HIS KNOWLEDGE, FAITH IN, AND OBEDIENCE TO HIM, otherwise it would be a totally tit-for-tat redemption and man can say “I had faith in you, didn’t I”? just as Satan told Him regarding Job, “why shouldn’t he be faithful to you, you protect him, don’t you” ?
Salvation IS OF THE LORD. Man has nothing to do with it.
IN HIS OWN DUE TIME, He did come to earth, in the form of a man, in the Person of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, and fulfilled the law, and laws, ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSES of separating a people unto Himself, FOR THEM TO BE WITH HIM IN ETERNITY. He saved them NOT FOR TIME and He did all these INDEPENDENT OF HIS KNOWLEDGE, FAITH IN, AND OBEDIENCE TO HIM, otherwise it would be a totally tit-for-tat redemption and man can say “I had faith in you, didn’t I”? just as Satan told Him regarding Job, “why shouldn’t he be faithful to you, you protect him, don’t you” ?
Salvation IS OF THE LORD. Man has nothing to do with it.