Saved from what ?

[pinoybaptist]

So where does knowledge and all those other stuff like faith, etc., come in ?
I never said they had no place in God’s economy.
Remember that fallen man is divided by sin-caused, man-made divisions such as religions, creeds, politics, philosophies.
Remember also that God’s creation, man, is SCATTERED ALL OVER THE WORLD, in tongues, tribes, nations, throughout all known ages. Bear in mind, as well, that AFTER the ascension of Christ, only 120 people in an upper room in a small corner of a dusty town in THE WHOLE EARTH knew that a Savior had come, lived among men, died, rose from the dead, and ascended to Heaven where He is to come from again.
The rest of mankind AT THAT POINT IN TIME, were either caught up in the religions of the heathen, or in the religion of the judaizers. And GOD’S ELECT were among them, BORN in them, REARED and RAISED up in them, religions and practices and ways of life that were condemned by God, and these were IGNORANT.
WASHED AND REDEEMED, but still immersed in the sinfulness of a fallen, condemned, and JUDGED ALREADY world. WHY ? they had NO KNOWLEDGE. They were UNREGENERATES, and regeneration is the work of the Spirit, WHO KNEW EACH AND EVERY ONE OF HIS SHEEP, who they are, where they were, and what circumstances of a fallen life they were in.

 

[pinoybaptist]

.......................
I DARE ANYONE RIGHT NOW, TO PUT IN PRINT, THAT HIS ETERNAL SALVATION WAS A COOPERATIVE ACT BETWEEN HIM AND GOD.
HIS FAITH, AND GOD'S WILL.
SAY IT IN PRINT !!!
And after that, sing of God's grace and talk of God's mercy.

what, no takers ?
yeah, I thought so.

 

[psalms109:31]

IC...in other words.....you disagree with Sola Gratia.

I do not we are saved by grace but it doesn't stop there alone it continues through faith.

Faith is made up knowledge that comes from God and belief and trust that is a verb an action from man in other words God does not have to believe and trust in Himself we do and we all know these scriptures.

Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God; I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, That I may declare all Your works.


Romans 4:5
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Faith without deeds is a dead faith, faith without love they are nothing. Regeneration before faith is ridiculous. It is a ridiculous thing to preach the Gospel to someone and bid them to come to Jesus who is all ready saved. It is the sick and the dying who need the cure.

Grace is nothing to someone who has never heard about it or does not believe in it.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

what, no takers ?
yeah, I thought so.

My salvation was a cooperative act between me and God.

God draws, but we have to surrender to His drawing. God invites, but we have to reach out, choose, and accept His invitation. God does not force or compel.

A fatalistic, deterministic god is the god of Islam, not Christianity.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My salvation was a cooperative act between me and God.

God draws, but we have to surrender to His drawing. God invites, but we have to reach out, choose, and accept His invitation. God does not force or compel.

A fatalistic, deterministic god is the god of Islam, not Christianity.

I guess then that the flowers in my garden decide to bloom & the water from my watering can decided to become wet & the birds of the air decided this morning to fly. And if thats your position, than your saying that sinners can decide to become saints.

I tell you this my friend because I believe it to be true, as true as God made apples, that the function & order of life is because of GODS CHOICE (not ours).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I do not we are saved by grace but it doesn't stop there alone it continues through faith.

Faith is made up knowledge that comes from God and belief and trust that is a verb an action from man in other words God does not have to believe and trust in Himself we do and we all know these scriptures.

Then I will then counter with my conclusion (paraphrasing KYRED) ....Our faith has zilch to do with our eternal destiny but everything to do with the benefits to be had from obedience to the gospel here, now, in this realm.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I guess then that the flowers in my garden decide to bloom & the water from my watering can decided to become wet & the birds of the air decided this morning to fly. And if thats your position, than your saying that sinners can decide to become saints.

I tell you this my friend because I believe it to be true, as true as God made apples, that the function & order of life is because of GODS CHOICE (not ours).

We are not talking about the general creation and its physical attributes but rather about humans and spiritual conditions.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Originally Posted by pinoybaptist
.......................
I DARE ANYONE RIGHT NOW, TO PUT IN PRINT, THAT HIS ETERNAL SALVATION WAS A COOPERATIVE ACT BETWEEN HIM AND GOD.
HIS FAITH, AND GOD'S WILL.
SAY IT IN PRINT !!!
And after that, sing of God's grace and talk of God's mercy.

My Eternal Salvation was a coopeerative act between myself and God.

Thomas Helwys: God draws, but we have to surrender to His drawing. God invites, but we have to reach out, choose, and accept His invitation. God does not force or compel.

A fatalistic, deterministic god is the god of Islam, not Christianity.

:thumbsup: seconded:thumbsup:

 

[pinoybaptist]

My salvation was a cooperative act between me and God.

God draws, but we have to surrender to His drawing. God invites, but we have to reach out, choose, and accept His invitation. God does not force or compel.

A fatalistic, deterministic god is the god of Islam, not Christianity.

1st, the god of Islam never sent anyone from his kingdom to redeem or save his adherents.
second, you, again, have completely missed what I am saying, in your blind adherence to your faith's roman catholic roots.

God's drawing of His people is entirely independent of any preaching, or witnessing, you may have heard, or experienced.

if you think you responded in faith, it is because God FIRST loved you, quickened you, drew you, and worked His will in you.

When whoever "witnessed" to you, or "preached" to you, you were RIPE for the harvest, made ready and willing by God, according to His purposes for you which is for you to be part of His CALLED OUT in whatever locality or area you were.

And you were RIPE for the harvest, because you were God's FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. You were never a goat, you were always sheep, and you can take no credit AT ALL for any hope you have.

Your faith was given to you, your repentance was a sign that you were and have always been His.

How totally depressing it is that we have to argue about something which should be a natural conclusion for blood-bought, grace recipients - that God ALONE has the credit, from start to end, for any hope of heaven we have. Unless, of course.......

 

[DrJamesAch]

I guess then that the flowers in my garden decide to bloom & the water from my watering can decided to become wet & the birds of the air decided this morning to fly. And if thats your position, than your saying that sinners can decide to become saints.

I tell you this my friend because I believe it to be true, as true as God made apples, that the function & order of life is because of GODS CHOICE (not ours).

Plants never had choices, that is an erroneous analogy.

 

[DrJamesAch]

My Eternal Salvation was a coopeerative act between myself and God.

:thumbsup: seconded:thumbsup:

Thirded :thumbs:

The problem is in how the OP defines "cooperate". If cooperate is meant to imply that God has half of a necklace that has saving power, and we have the other half that also contains some kind of saving power and connect them together, then yes, cooperation is erroneous because their is nothing salvific within ourselves.

HOWEVER, that's because cooperation is erroneously defined. Cooperation is merely God being the giver, and we being the receivers, but God has made receiving conditional on our doing so through faith. Faith is a response to being obedient to God's illumination and enlightenment of the gospel. (Paul "I was not DISOBEDIENT to the heavenly vision" Acts 26:19).

And again, Calvinists/Reformers arrive at this straw man argument by mischaracterizing what we Non Cals say by cooperation, and because Calvinism defines faith as a work which is erroneous. Thus because they impose the caricature of faith being a work upon Non Cals, they come to the false conclusion that being obedient in response by faith is a work.

Again, I will list verses that prove that faith in Christ is necessary, and that obedience to the gospel is a requirement.

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews 11:1

" These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth." Hebrews 11:13

"And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." Hebrews 3:18-19

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 2 Thess 1:8

" By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name" Romans 1:5

"But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:" Romans 16:26

'My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." Hosea 4:6

"And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me." John 16:3

"And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me" John 16:8-9

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" John 11:25 (Oh and Calvinists, pay attention to that "though he were dead" part!)

 

[webdog]

what, no takers ?
yeah, I thought so.

You thought wrong.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

 

[quantumfaith]

Thirded :thumbs:

The problem is in how the OP defines "cooperate". If cooperate is meant to imply that God has half of a necklace that has saving power, and we have the other half that also contains some kind of saving power and connect them together, then yes, cooperation is erroneous because their is nothing salvific within ourselves.

HOWEVER, that's because cooperation is erroneously defined. Cooperation is merely God being the giver, and we being the receivers, but God has made receiving conditional on our doing so through faith. Faith is a response to being obedient to God's illumination and enlightenment of the gospel. (Paul "I was not DISOBEDIENT to the heavenly vision" Acts 26:19).

And again, Calvinists/Reformers arrive at this straw man argument by mischaracterizing what we Non Cals say by cooperation, and because Calvinism defines faith as a work which is erroneous. Thus because they impose the caricature of faith being a work upon Non Cals, they come to the false conclusion that being obedient in response by faith is a work.

Again, I will list verses that prove that faith in Christ is necessary, and that obedience to the gospel is a requirement.

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews 11:1

" These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth." Hebrews 11:13

"And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." Hebrews 3:18-19

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 2 Thess 1:8

" By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name" Romans 1:5

"But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:" Romans 16:26

'My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." Hosea 4:6

"And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me." John 16:3

"And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me" John 16:8-9

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" John 11:25 (Oh and Calvinists, pay attention to that "though he were dead" part!)

fourthed......I was a "synergist" around before you guys made synergism cool.

 

[pinoybaptist]

You thought wrong.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

yeah, my folly. I thought God's sovereignty and the sinner's passivity in salvation would be a self-evident truth for those who call Him Father, claiming the blood of the Son of God.
I miscalculated the satanic pride in the human heart and its refusal to ascribe to God and to God only their redemption.

 

[webdog]

yeah, my folly. I thought God's sovereignty and the sinner's passivity in salvation would be a self-evident truth for those who call Him Father, claiming the blood of the Son of God.
I miscalculated the satanic pride in the human heart and its refusal to ascribe to God and to God only their redemption.

Attributing scripture to satanic pride is a new low for even you. Your entire post is a fallacy.

 

[quantumfaith]

yeah, my folly. I thought God's sovereignty and the sinner's passivity in salvation would be a self-evident truth for those who call Him Father, claiming the blood of the Son of God.
I miscalculated the satanic pride in the human heart and its refusal to ascribe to God and to God only their redemption.

Go ahead and go off on your own little self appointed diatribe.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Go ahead and go off on your own little self appointed diatribe.

ooopppss.....did I prick something ?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Attributing scripture to satanic pride is a new low for even you. You entire post is a fallacy.

didn't Satan use Scripture to tempt the Author of Scripture Himself ? Why shouldn't pride, which is of Satan, twist Scripture to deny God the honor and glory due to Him only,
You all want a piece of that honor and glory by stating that yes Jesus died on the cross and conquered death, yes the Father had to turn away from the Son because of the sins of His people, but in the end your acknowledgement of Him and your faith in Him clinched the deal.

that is satanic and I say that with no apologies.

 

[DrJamesAch]

didn't Satan use Scripture to tempt the Author of Scripture Himself ? Why shouldn't pride, which is of Satan, twist Scripture to deny God the honor and glory due to Him only,
You all want a piece of that honor and glory by stating that yes Jesus died on the cross and conquered death, yes the Father had to turn away from the Son because of the sins of His people, but in the end your acknowledgement of Him and your faith in Him clinched the deal.

that is satanic and I say that with no apologies.

Yes Satan used the Bible against Jesus, but Jesus didn't respond with philosophical reasoning and emotional arguments, He responded with Scripture and quoted it correctly.

This comment is based on pure emotionalist logic. The Bible says otherwise.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

ooopppss.....did I prick something ?

Probably not.....I do not think Q.F. is easily provoked.
He's a rather cool customer.