canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The context of this passage is church discipline, not perseverance or not “quality Christian conference” (not really sure what that is)
peace to you
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Saved in a Calvinistic Baptist Church
- Thread starter rockytopva
- Start date
peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but I cannot seem to find
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints
in the the bible yet that you hold to them. WHY?
You have to read these into the text so they fit you soteriological view. Plus I have to ask where did you find "Regeneration unto faith" I looked and I guess I missed it.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Because the concepts are taught in the Bible, when one takes into account all the details.
Not at all.
In fact, it's the other way around, at least for me;
I read them out of the text, and have never approached the Bible using anyone's systematic theology.
Speaking for myself, I was raised in IB / IFB circles from the age of 12 in 1978 when I first heard the preaching of God's word, and have experienced many of the things that @rockytopva has described in this thread in years past.
Then in 2003 when I was 37, a good friend of mine ( a fellow believer ) showed me 3 verses from the Bible and my studies increased from there....and it was over the years that I realized that almost none of the things found in professing churches today were found in the churches back then...
To me, "revivals", "altar calls", "asking Jesus into our hearts", etc. are things that have been added in by men over the years, and were never found in the Lord's churches...especially at the beginning.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
For many years I missed it as well.
Then one day as I was reading through Acts 16, I ran across this:
" And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us." ( Acts of the Apostles 16:13-15 ). <----------God had to first open Lydia's heart to His words.
Later on I saw Titus 3:4-7 and many others in their proper contexts.
Amazing, isn't it, that He would condescend to open someone's hardened heart ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20 ), and grant them the gifts of the new birth, faith, and repentance?
I'm reminded of Philippians 1:29:
" For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;" <---- God gives someone both the privilege to believe on His Son, and to suffer for His sake.
May God bless you in many ways, sir.
I would not say Calvinist are not saved. It hints to me, though, that Calvinist are Christians of Sardisean variety. Noting that a Sardius is a gem called a sardius stone. Noting…
1. Hard shelled - Will not budge from a tough doctrinal position.
2. Elegant - Sporting a clean cut look.
A Sardisean is not one, though, to get emotional in church. If the non-Calvinist has faults it is in that they share not the good qualities of the Sardisean.
1. If you notice no one was there to explain salvation in the GC Rankin story told earlier.
2. The people are not as elegant as those who went on before.
3. If you notice in the video no one was there to receive the people at the altar call in the video posted earlier.
As far as revival they are annoyingly wonderful within a generation, as with the Sheffey story told in the earlier post.
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out - Revelation 3:12
As what I would call the Philadelphian age revival, one that easily dissipates away. And my perspective on the churches….
Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - *Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?
*Noting also “Ye Shall Have Tribulation Ten Days” Rev 2:10 (from the Foxes Book of Martyrs)…
Time Persecutor Description
67 AD Nero The Smyrna Church Age begins with Nero setting fire to Rome, and then blaming the Christians
81 AD Domitian Declaration that no Christian should be exempt from punishment, Paul’s Timothy died in 97 AD.
108 AD Trajan and Adrian Severe persecution against Christians from 108 to 138 AD during the time of the Bishop Ignatius
162 AD Marcos Aurelius Marcos Aurelius, commendable in study of philosophy, sharp and fierce towards Christians.
192 AD Severus This persecution was carried out by the will and prejudice of the people and extended into Africa.
235 AD Maximus Numberless Christians were slain without trial and burned indiscriminately in heaps
249 AD Decius Began because of the amazing increase in Christianity, and with the heathen temples forsaken.
257 AD Valerian The martyrs that fell during this persecution were innumerable, their tortures and deaths painful.
274 AD Aurelian A brief persecution that ended with the emperor’s assassination.
303 AD Diocletian The last persecution ended with Constantine’s triumph against Rome in 313 AD
There is little left of the wonderful Philadelphian revival as I have told it here. Therefore I did not mind taking my friend to a Sardisean based Calvinistic church, in hope he would lay hold of a salvation that would eventually see him to heaven. There are offsprings to the Sardisean way where I would not have taken him had he asked, especially of Seven Day Adventist and Mormon variety
Right, there are a great many saved Calvinists and Calvinism is not as much of a hindrance as SDA or Mormon.
Noting, as in the above post, quoted below, the Sardis churches are more disciplined.
Well put! I totally agree! God bless my friend. And may I show you my first Bible, presented to me by my old Armenian based Freewill Baptist church, where I spent a year of college and taught Sunday School. As with the Philadelphian revival this church heart breakingly dissipated away and closed its doors. Oh to go back in time! I would love to spend a Sunday evening service with them while they had the Footwashing-Communion service!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Van,
First of all I am not a "Calvinist"...
I believe God's words as found in the Scriptures.
They are precious to me, and much of what He says I find to be very sobering.
Secondly,
I'm not finding fault with anyone;
I'm simply taking an objective look at the books of Acts, Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, and the others and stating that I find it odd that many of the things found in today's churches and have become traditional, are not found in the Bible.
For example, when did this practice of "altar calls" become tradition?
I know of no one who practiced this before Charles Finney popularized it in the early 1800's.
"Praying the sinner's prayer"?
Many popular preachers and teachers come to mind who practiced and taught this, yet I cannot find anywhere in the Bible where these things were encouraged or even practiced in the Lord's churches.
If they weren't present back then, should we be doing those things now?
I can find no reason for churches to add such things, nor to make it a habit of them.
May God bless you.
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According the rules of this BB, you are a Calvinist.
and in nowhere in Scripture can I find:
bathrooms in church buildings
Sunday School
baptristy
Song books/AC
Pianos
Church kitchens
bulletins
Heat
So lets stop using that dumb excuse!!!
Now, tell me what Scripture prohibits...... then we will talk
By way - Acts 1631 -- Believe......and thou shalt be SAVED!!!
Southern Fried Baptist
Member
Dave G
Well-Known Member
None of that is needed, Salty, in order to carry out the Lord's commands for believers to meet with one another, glorify the Lord for His gift of eternal life and to edify one another.
We will have to agree to disagree, it seems.
Very true.
His word also says why people choose to believe, does it not?
John 6:37-47.
John 6:64-65.
John 8:43-47.
John 10:26-27.
Acts of the Apostles 13:48.
Psalms 65:4.
Romans 8:28-30.
Romans 9:14-24.
1 Corinthians 1:18.
Philippians 1:29.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.
Ephesians 1:3-14.
Ephesians 2:1-10.
May God bless you, sir.
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Of course you can. That’s not the point.
Encourage people to come to Christ. If make a profession of faith, wonderful. Encourage them to join a local church and mature as a Christian.
We do not have the authority to declare someone to be “saved” because they repeated a prayer.
peace to you
Encourage people to come to Christ. If make a profession of faith, wonderful. Encourage them to join a local church and mature as a Christian.
We do not have the authority to declare someone to be “saved” because they repeated a prayer.
peace to you
DeaconPete
New Member
I like how Joel Osteen does it. All you do is recite a prayer and you are saved, no need for altercalls or anything like that...
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I like how God does it.
All you do is respond with faith to God Holy Spirit drawing you to God the Father, convicting you of sin and the truth concerning Jesus Christ and Him crucified and then Christ covering in His righteousness and forgiving your sins, and then Holy Spirit indwelling.
Yes, I like how God does it
peace to you
he first though would need to give forth the real Jesus and real Gospel!
DeaconPete
New Member
Good Points! I whole heartedly agree!
37818
Well-Known Member
Well like the term Trinity.