posted by steaver:
What could I possibly add to this that would explain the difference between "pardoned" and "made perfect"? The difference between having sin covered temporarily and having sin paid for and taken away? The penalty must be paid and Jesus Christ must needs pay it "from the foundation of the world". "It is written"! No one could enter Heaven, the Holy of Hoilies, the abode of the Father, without the blood of Jesus Christ. This is why the scriptures connect the dots in a way that shows the OT saints needed Jesus' sacrifice as all do in order to enter Heaven. This is why I believe Paradise and Heaven were different places pre-cross. After the ressurrection Paradise was taken into Heaven by Jesus Christ Himself, the High Priest. This is why Paul goes into Paradise and John sees Paradise in Heaven after the ressurrection.
I am well aware of the Heb passage and I agree that Jesus had to die in order for the full sacrifice of sin to met. I also agree that the OT sacrificial system was a pattern of what was to come and fulfilled in Jesus Christ - fully - once and for all.
However; the OT is clear, that forgiveness for sins was met by the sacrifice of animals - because God said it was so. Why? Because Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world and in God's sovereignty declared sin forgiven by animals knowing that Jesus would be sacrificed. There is no time frame with God. He is Infinite. He speaks as though things have already come to pass in the OT.
Also, the Irsaelites believed that their sin was forgiven by the sacrifices for sin because God said it was so. Those that believed by faith, were partakers of the Old Covenant by which salvation was given. It is true that Israel, as a nation, broke the covenant, but those who believed were still covered under it. It was not God who broke the covenant, but the people.
The NC was a better covenant because it was One sacrifice for all through the shed blood of Jesus. There was no longer the need for animals, who were a pattern, yet still were considered the sacrifice needed for sin in the OT.
Paradise is Heaven, has always been Heaven. Those saved in the OT were saved fully and did not need to be reborn. There is no scripture that says they had to go through another process - because God saw that Jesus had shed His blood from the foundation of the earth. The sacrificied animals represented His sacrifice. The OT saints were in Heaven before Jesus came. There is no scripture that says otherwise.
If you believe that the dead were in some sort of holding tank - which you call Paradise - then perhaps you can explain how Isaiah was in Heaven and had his sins forgiven?
Isaiah 6
1 ¶ In the year that King Uzziah died, then I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up. And His train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphs. Each one had six wings; with two he covered his face; and with two he covered his feet; and with two he flew.
3 And one cried to the other and said, Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of Hosts; all the earth is full of His glory!
4 And the doorposts shook from the voice of the one who cried; and the house was filled with smoke.
5 ¶ Then I said, Woe is me! For I am cut off; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I live amongst a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of Hosts.
6 Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, snatched with tongs from the altar.
7 And he touched it on my mouth, and said, See, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away, and your sin is covered.
Ezekiel also bore the iniquity of Israel.
Ezekiel 4:4 And you, lie down on your left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel on it. The number of the days that you shall lie down on it, you shall bear their iniquity.
5 For I have laid on you the years of their iniquity, according to the number of days: three hundred and ninety days. And you shall bear the house of Israel's iniquity.
6 And when you complete them, even lie on your right side, the second. And you shall bear the house of Judah's iniquity forty days; a day for a year. I have set it for you, a day for a year.
And this spoken by God:
Ez 14:20 though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in its midst, as I live, declares the Lord Jehovah, they would deliver neither son nor daughter; they by their righteousness would deliver only their souls.
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Stever wrote:
Why did God kill the animal? Why didn't God put grass skirts on their nakedness? Sin happened and blood must be shed, because it is written before the foundation of the world. The shed blood and the covering of them with the skin is a shadow of things to come. It was a temporary fix for the problem they created.
eloidalmanutha:
A sacrifice for sin not only required that blood be shed, but that it be sacrificed. So you are saying that God sacrificed an animal in order that Adam and Eve could be forgiven?
