Saving Faith a gift? Part Deux

[agedman]

answered in # 26, and in MANY other places!

If faith (belief) bring eternal life, and belief (faith) is the gift of God brought be hearing the Word, then what is the determining factor that is missing?

It seems the parable of the sower and seed as well as one of the responsibilities of angels (Hebrews 1:14) would bring resolution, would it not?

 

[SavedByGrace]

If faith (belief) bring eternal life, and belief (faith) is the gift of God brought be hearing the Word, then what is the determining factor that is missing?

It seems the parable of the sower and seed as well as one of the responsibilities of angels (Hebrews 1:14) would bring resolution, would it not?

same answser as in #26

 

[agedman]

HaHa!!!

You on PURPOSE, for your THEOLOGY, IGNORE the FACT, that when Jesus, God Himself, and the Apostle Paul quote the words, they do NOT in Matthew and Acts, go to the MT Hebrew text, but to the Hebrew that the LXX was based on. Here is it very clear, THEIR EYES THEY HAVE CLOSED". NOT God!

Not concerned with Matthew and Acts, but how it is presented in the two places I mentioned.

Perhaps you can restate those two places in a manner that conformed to your thinking, but would it not present God as reactionary as opposed to author and perfector?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Not concerned with Matthew and Acts, but how it is presented in the two places I mentioned.

Perhaps you can restate those two places in a manner that conformed to your thinking, but would it not present God as reactionary as opposed to author and perfector?

Ah, only interested in those passages that agree with your theology

 

[agedman]

I suppose when Peter preached under the New Covenant in Acts chapter 2, which is POST Jesus' Resurrection and Ascension, that he did not know what he was saying, according to you guys!

Again I quote verse 37, "Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart (CONVICTED by The Holy Spirit), and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we DO?”. I mean, DO you get this?

See Peters own words that ANSWERED this:

"Peter said to them, “REPENT, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (verse 38)

This, is NEW TESTAMENT and NOT the OLD!!!

Even to this day the unsaved have the concept of doing to get. Such was not untaught by the OT religious rulers but even carried into the church of this day by those who require some human action to gain rather than human action as the result of God’s working.

It is very logical for Peter to have used the terms repent, baptized, believe, for that was also the message of John the Baptist.

However, because Acts is a transitional book expressing the earliest beginnings of the church, Peter would use terms in that sermon that would be audience appropriate, but not necessarily for that Jewish based audience appropriate in this day to the modern gentile audience.

The typical heathen of this day has little understanding of words such as repentance and baptized for the remission of sins….

I am not stating a disagreement that such things should not be taught, but that the expectation of the response should be modified to fit the experienced learning of the audience.

I think perhaps Philip had a bit of this thinking when he ran along side the chariot. He didn’t call for repentance, but looked for the action as the result of God’s Word working.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Even to this day the unsaved have the concept of doing to get. Such was not untaught by the OT religious rulers but even carried into the church of this day by those who require some human action to gain rather than human action as the result of God’s working.

It is very logical for Peter to have used the terms repent, baptized, believe, for that was also the message of John the Baptist.

However, because Acts is a transitional book expressing the earliest beginnings of the church, Peter would use terms in that sermon that would be audience appropriate, but not necessarily for that Jewish based audience appropriate in this day to the modern gentile audience.

The typical heathen of this day has little understanding of words such as repentance and baptized for the remission of sins….

I am not stating a disagreement that such things should not be taught, but that the expectation of the response should be modified to fit the experienced learning of the audience.

I think perhaps Philip had a bit of this thinking when he ran along side the chariot. He didn’t call for repentance, but looked for the action as the result of God’s Word working.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

 

[agedman]

Ah, only interested in those passages that agree with your theology

No, but neither am I willing to depart from the truth of those passages.

There are places that God looks upon the person and confirms that person’s attitude. But that is not reactionary, rather that is proactive to produce the result’s He desires.

Is there recognition in the difference between a God that reacts compared to a God that is proactive?

 

[SavedByGrace]

No, but neither am I willing to depart from the truth of those passages.

There are places that God looks upon the person and confirms that person’s attitude. But that is not reactionary, rather that is proactive to produce the result’s He desires.

Is there recognition in the difference between a God that reacts compared to a God that is proactive?

Let me know when you want to discuss Jesus and Paul on the passage from Isaiah. No point in running from it

 

[agedman]

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

I see that you recognize the saturation of the home turf before moving to other fields.

Again, I am not stating repentance is not important, but that repentance may come in a different format.

Recall the Jailor? “What must I do to be saved?” The actions of bounding into the cell area, and the attitude of desperation were enough for the evangelist to use “believe …”.

There are times when folks need to hear “repent and be baptized…” and others were is is obvious such words are not necessary.

What do you consider the words, “…do works meet for repentance,” mean?

 

[agedman]

Let me know when you want to discuss Jesus and Paul on the passage from Isaiah. No point in running from it

Haven’t run from anything.

Have I not been asking questions and responding to your answers, sometimes with more questions?

Can you state that John and Paul used words that would conform the Scriptures to your thinking?

As I already pointed to them, did they not both make the statements in the context of God being proactive rather than reactive?

 

[SavedByGrace]

I see that you recognize the saturation of the home turf before moving to other fields.

Again, I am not stating repentance is not important, but that repentance may come in a different format.

Recall the Jailor? “What must I do to be saved?” The actions of bounding into the cell area, and the attitude of desperation were enough for the evangelist to use “believe …”.

There are times when folks need to hear “repent and be baptized…” and others were is is obvious such words are not necessary.

What do you consider the words, “…do works meet for repentance,” mean?

What is repentance to you?

 

[AustinC]

Dude, see what you fellow "reformer" says in # 17

"This foolishness here is a flat out lie. Mark 1:15 says to repent and believe in the gospel. Calvinists teach it, believe it, preach it from the pulpit."

See, I am not the only one saying that BOTH Repenting and Believing is required! "Calvinists teach it, believe it, preach it from the pulpit.". Go figure the confused theology that you guys teach!

I suppose when Peter preached under the New Covenant in Acts chapter 2, which is POST Jesus' Resurrection and Ascension, that he did not know what he was saying, according to you guys!

Again I quote verse 37, "Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart (CONVICTED by The Holy Spirit), and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we DO?”. I mean, DO you get this?

See Peters own words that ANSWERED this:

"Peter said to them, “REPENT, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (verse 38)

This, is NEW TESTAMENT and NOT the OLD!!!

You seem to ignore what Acts tells us.
Acts 2:37-39
Peter’s words pierced their hearts, and they said to him and to the other apostles, “Brothers, what should we do?” Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is to you, and to your children, and even to the Gentiles—all who have been called by the Lord our God.”

Do you not see the work of God, before repentance, in this passage? Moreso, do you not see that God is fully doing the work...and Peter is telling you that it's all God. ("all who have been called by the Lord our God.")

Notice what the writer says about God's piercing word.
Hebrews 4:12-13
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God. Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes, and he is the one to whom we are accountable.

sbg, your hatred for a phantom you have created, which you label "Reformed" is blinding you to scripture and to your own, self imposed legalism, which you think is the gospel. If I were the only one correcting you, you could argue a draw, but even some who are free-will Arminians have opposed your view. You are on an island of your own and you refuse all who come along and offer you transport off your island.

 

[Dave G]

It says it comes by hearing the word of Christ.

" But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by [them that are] no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me." ( Romans 10:16-20 ).

Look at it a little closer, Willis...
Does it not say that faith is by hearing, but hearing is by the word of God?

1) Faith comes by hearing.
2) Hearing comes by the word of God.

 

[agedman]

What is repentance to you?

From the human perspective it requires a change of mind and direction. Typically, it results in one expressing regret, however, expressing verbally is not always noticed, for the Scripture also indicates that physical action such as beating one self, falling down in submission, … can also serve as indications of repentance.

However, when repentance is used by God as in the passage, “…repented that He made man…” the idea is not of regret but of pity towards those about to suffer the consequences of their rebellion.

It must be noted that Paul mentioned the differences between Godly repentance and worldly feeling sorry for their self.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.[Romans 10:17 NASB]

Much is contained in this one verse. I personally believe this verse proves beyond a shadow of doubt that faith is a gift of God. Notice that it says where faith comes from..."and by hearing the word of Christ." Seeing that God's word is a gift to us, and faith comes by hearing it, faith is a gift of God. There is no way of escaping this fact.

Here is my long winded answer: Yes it is a gift. I don't have enough faith that my car can make it to the city and back, how then could I possibly conjure up within myself trust in one I haven't seen to save me from eternal damnation apart from being given said faith.

 

[37818]

Without faith no one knows anything. So everyone has faith of some kind.

 

[JesusFan]

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.[Romans 10:17 NASB]

Much is contained in this one verse. I personally believe this verse proves beyond a shadow of doubt that faith is a gift of God. Notice that it says where faith comes from..."and by hearing the word of Christ." Seeing that God's word is a gift to us, and faith comes by hearing it, faith is a gift of God. There is no way of escaping this fact.

Except those who hold to free will grace will come back with all have that option to get that faith or to reject it when Gospel heard!

 

[AustinC]

Without faith no one knows anything. So everyone has faith of some kind.

Show us in scripture that all humanity is given innate faith at conception. I am interested in the passages of scripture you choose. (Remember that quoting a verse out of context will disqualify that verse regarding your claim. Read the passage and then choose wisely.)

 

[37818]

Show us in scripture that all humanity is given innate faith at conception. I am interested in the passages of scripture you choose. (Remember that quoting a verse out of context will disqualify that verse regarding your claim. Read the passage and then choose wisely.)

Even the laws of nature as they are displayed. Romans 10:17-18, ". . . So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . . ." Psalms 19:4, ". . . Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. . . ."

Furthermore no one knows one's own experliences except one believes one's own experiences. Not even you.

 

[JesusFan]

Show us in scripture that all humanity is given innate faith at conception. I am interested in the passages of scripture you choose. (Remember that quoting a verse out of context will disqualify that verse regarding your claim. Read the passage and then choose wisely.)

Fits the understanding that non cals have that all still have a degree of free will to save themselves!