Featured Saving faith?

Yes, what most Calvinists believe is that a man is spiritually dead like a corpse. A corpse cannot believe (or do anything else). They believe a man must be made spiritually alive to have the ability to believe.

The Arminian view is that man is depraved in sin, yet he retains the ability to believe when he is convicted and convinced by the word of God and the drawing of the Spirit.

Arminians think of spiritual death as a state of separation from God, but not a lack of ability.

Calvinists tend to view spiritual death as similar to physical death and lack of ability.

 

Please go through a little exercise with me and let's see what we can discover.

All please join in.

Our Pastor allows our Youth Pastor to preach on the first Sunday night of each month. A small congregation of 75 - 100 at night.

This past Sunday he preached from Numbers 14 when the spies returned from spying out the land and the people rejected going onto the land.

God was irate to say the very least.

Num. 14:9-10 Only rebel not ye against the LORD, neither fear ye the people of the land; for they [are] bread for us: their defence is departed from them, and the LORD [is] with us: fear them not. But all the congregation bade stone them with stones. And the glory of the LORD appeared in the tabernacle of the congregation before all the children of Israel.

God's reaction 11_12 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them? I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.

God wanted to kill them off and start over with Moses and build a nation from him. But Moses argued with God about that which is another story I would love to delve into with you all. However staying on topic, these people had moaned and groaned from the time they had left Egypt. As God said above they had never believed God and had provoked him at every turn. They built the idol while Moses was on the mountain, They did not do as told concerning the manna.
Before crossing the sea they were whining and crying about being brought into the wilderness to die. Be thou still and see the salvation of the LORD.


God had promised about a seed of woman. God had called Abram changed his name to Abraham and told him that this seed would come from his, Abraham's loins. God had told Abraham his people would be 430 years in a strange land. To the very day they left that land. They come to the sea and they whine and cry.

By faith, they passed through the Red sea as by dry [land]: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

I put that comer after faith. Why? Do you believe for one nano second that faith there has anything to do with the feeling, belief emotion or anything from the heart of these people.

By whose faith did they cross the sea? What was the purpose in them crossing the sea?

Now go back and read what point Moses argued with God. 13-20 I would copy but to long. Please read;
For we say today that God did disinherit them and is building his nation through another people the Gentiles.

I ask is this true or is God building the nation through whom he said he would? We believe them to be the heathen (Gentiles) instead of the house of Israel from among the (Gentiles) heathen. But as I said this is another thread.


BTW this isn't about C's or A's just truth.

 

The seed, the promise, the faith.

The seed of the woman brought forth by Mary according to the flesh (And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.) and by resurrection from the dead, the seed of the woman brought forth by Zion (Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.) IS, the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal. 3:23

Jesus the Christ IS the promised seed of Abraham and IS the faith.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

What promise was given that required faith because it was only a promise of hope not reality?

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Did the one of whom this was spoken receive that inheritance by promise?
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation

Today we after dying are said to be dead in Christ. That is dead in the faith that did come. See Gal 3:25 But after that the faith is come.

Those before Jesus and inclusive of Jesus who was made under the law, the called of God were said to have died in faith. In the faith to come. See Gal 3:23 But before the faith came.

 

Sorry percho, but I cannot follow what you are trying to say. Perhaps you can try to restate your point.

 

I'll address this part, since it seems to be a question pertinent to this thread.

Faith is not a feeling or emotion, it is trust. The people trusted God enough to start walking when the waters parted. It may not have been much trust, but it was enough, and it was in the right God. So...

-It was their faith in God that he would keep the water open long enough for them to cross.

-The purpose was the same as the chicken crossing the road: To get to the other side. (also to show God's power, and judge the egyptians.)

 

And I prefer to believe its mercy.

 

Whats that story about the landowner who has men come in & labor all day, invites some to come in at noon & work a full day & lastly some to come in late & work & then the landowner pays them the same amount. The landowner when criticized that he was being unfair said, I can do what I want with my land & my money.

I think the point is made.

 

Dead on, brother! :thumbs:

 

That is the whole point. Those people never trusted God from the night of the passover to the rejection of the spies. They had no 0= zero faith.

They crossed the sea because of the faith/faithfulness of God. They crossed the sea because of what God had told Abraham. It was not because of any faith they had in God. They were running scared.

The post following the post you responded to shows what the faith is and when it came. They were under the law, the schoolmaster. until the faith came, was revealed. The death of Jesus was the faith. He was made sin and paid the penalty for sin death, separation from his Father God. His Father raising him from the dead is the Grace of God by which you can be saved through the faith of Jesus his Son.

 

1. I can agree with your last paragraph, although you then have to say this gift, purchased by the faith of Christ, is then "recieved by faith" (rom.3) by the inividual believer.

2. Are you saying they people had ZERO FAITH IN GOD. I'm not sure that follows, that had at least enough faith to follow moses various places, one of which was through the red sea. That had faith that the water was less of a threat than the soldiers.

 

Not either one!

what saves us is the death of jesus upon the cross, and faith is the means for us to appropiate that and accessing it!

And God does not have faith, as He has no need to have it!

 

Wrong IMVHO The death of Jesus was the, through the faith. It was what followed that brought salvation for you, the grace.

Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Hope? For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

much more, being reconciled, (by his death) we shall be saved by his life.

 

All men have some kind of faith, but the natural man does not, and cannot, have spiritual faith, 1 Cor 2:14.

 

If you think that John 10:4 is talking about an animal when using the word SHEEP, Then you have a lot to learn about scripture.

 

Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Spirit, Gal 5. We have no spiritual faith until God puts his Spirit within us.

 

Is Christ in you the hope of glory, acquired because of, the promise of the Spirit which was shed on us?

Compare: Titus 3:5 last phrase & 6 and renewing of the Holy Spirit; Which he (God) shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; WITH Gal. 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles (us)
through (in) Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith. (a noun)

That promise of the Spirit is inclusive in the promises made to Abraham and his one seed Christ, See V16 And it is by the Holy Spirit, the inheritance (eternal life) is received, which was by promise See V 18 Titus 1:2 tells of that promise: In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

We are joint heirs with Jesus the Christ of the promises of God. If Jesus hasn't first received the promises then we have no hope of receiving them. The promise of the hope of eternal life was made for Jesus and then for us only if he received first, through faith. He became sin for us and died with only the promise of hope of eternal life. THAT TOOK FAITH. Luke 22:42-44 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. (Did the strength from the angel help much? continue) And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (We can only imagine, or can we, the agony of striving against sin to this degree) Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Did Jesus receive the promise of the Holy Spirit?
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit,

If Jesus the Christ has not inherited we have no hope of inheriting.

We by the faith of Jesus the Christ have hope through the gift of the Holy Spirit of God, having being shed upon us. Rom 8:23-25 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

But we see Jesus (who has inherited) the substance of the things hoped for:
The Faith.