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So how many SBC pastors want to remain in a convention that so openly endorses its Calvinistic roots?
Yes with the denomination shrinking anyway, the same sex issue is the only thing right now that'll get the SBC riled up enough to disfellowship a church; it's done that to just a few.
The B&FM is a mildly Calvinistic statement. The 1963/2000 version is less Calvinistic than the 1925 version, which in turn is less calvinistic than the 1833 New Hampshire Confession on which the 1925 edition is based. And the New Hampshire is less high Calvinist than Second London/Philadelphia confession on which it was based. You will not find imputed righteousness. There is election, but it is not specifically unconditional election. Total inability, in fact, is smudged in the 1963/2000 versions compared to even the 1925 version.
The NH/B&FM also incorporate Fullerism's "duty faith" as opposed to the principles of the London/Philadelphia confessions.
In fact, it probably would be more accurate to say that the BF&M is in the Reformed tradition, accommodating Calvinistic and Arminian views (except on perseverance, perhaps) without espousing specifically classical Calvinism details.
Local associations and state conventions have acted against the outrage of churches having woman pastors, based on BFM2000 saying that "the office of pastor is limited to men," but the SBC itself has not (so far):Or women pastors and deacons.
Undoubtedly action has been taken against churches with women deacons, in some corners.the SBC has never withdrawn fellowship from a church because it had a female pastor
First Baptist Oklahoma City withdrew from the SBC specifically over the issue of women deacons
Bit reactionary?O.K.............
So, do other non-"reformed" or "Calvinistic" Baptists who do not adhere to the "Doctrines of Grace" have your official permission to disassociate?
I Pray to God Almighty, daily, that if you are indeed correct...that this is an exclusively Calvinist document, then, we filthy godless Arminians can now, in good conscience, remove ourselves from any association with you, and continue to obey the Great Commission and obey the gospel as we see fit.
Are you giving us permission to disassociate from Al Mohler?
Please say yes.
I'd give ANYTHING for all non-Calvinists to peaceably part ways with all adherents of that Philosophy, and you can have the Seminaries, their grounds, their history, and Al Mohler, T.C. "that Brian", "Iconoclast" and everyone else with it....
It's all yours.
Now, since it's a "Calvinist" document...May we PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Dear Lord, disassociate ourselves from you and start our own convention afresh???
I'd agree to a legal requirement that you take all the Seminaries, all the grounds, and we'll pay any interruption in retirement for all tenured professors............
Will you then, please, become members of the Association of Reformed Baptists....and leave the rest of us alone?
Take whatever you want, it's yours.
Please, then, take all those millions of dollars and centuries of investment...and pay Al Mohler's salary from your own pockets and leave the rest of us to continue the Great Commission as we see fit? Will you for the love of the gospel of Jesus Christ do that for us please???
Will you take that deal?
Please say yes.
Again, a bit reactionary?Hopefully, they will take it over entirely....
That's my prayer.
And then we who are alive and remain may associate ourselves for the furtherance of the gospel as we deem fit.
I say let them have it ALL.
If they leave us alone afterwards???
It's worth every dime, every penny.
Then, we associate anew, and then in 75 years when they have no money and no converts and no one in their pews, we can officially tell them to pound sand....because what they want is for us to do the dirty work of reaching the lost, while they comfortably smoke cigars and study "Soteriology".
They can get their own converts...
You aren't going to get a SINGLE Calvie wanting to disassociate from the S.B.C....They'll fight for "unity" on that issue until we pull out.
Because they aren't reaching anyone, and they need us to fight in the trenches..
Of course they want "unity" with us:
They'd die without it.
Gnosticism and Docetism was heresy when the Apostle John dealt with it, and it's heresy when Al Mohler preaches it........Please let the Calvinists take everything we own, and then we can get about the Great Commission alone, without their help.
We'll be better off...........
They only want "unity" in the sense that they lead no one to Christ, and they need us to be the grunts who generate the dues-paying church-sheeple to fund their life-style..............
You're right "aged-man".....the B.F.M. is totally a "reformed" document...
May the rest of us pull out now????
Please?
,I Pray to God Almighty, daily, that if you are indeed correct...that this is an exclusively Calvinist document
Sure,,,go and take your watered down statement with you...have fun, just go.then, we filthy godless Arminians can now, in good conscience, remove ourselves from any association with you, and continue to obey the Great Commission and obey the gospel as we see fit.
Are you giving us permission to disassociate from Al Mohler?
Please say yes.
,I'd give ANYTHING for all non-Calvinists to peaceably part ways with all adherents of that Philosophy
and you can have the Seminaries, their grounds, their history, and Al Mohler, T.C. "that Brian", "Iconoclast" and everyone else with it....
It's all yours.
Now, since it's a "Calvinist" document...
May we PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Dear Lord, disassociate ourselves from you and start our own convention afresh???
Will you then, please, become members of the Association of Reformed Baptists....and leave the rest of us alone?
O.K.............
So, do other non-"reformed" or "Calvinistic" Baptists who do not adhere to the "Doctrines of Grace" have your official permission to disassociate?
I Pray to God Almighty, daily, that if you are indeed correct...that this is an exclusively Calvinist document, then, we filthy godless Arminians can now, in good conscience, remove ourselves from any association with you, and continue to obey the Great Commission and obey the gospel as we see fit.
Are you giving us permission to disassociate from Al Mohler?
Please say yes.
I'd give ANYTHING for all non-Calvinists to peaceably part ways with all adherents of that Philosophy, and you can have the Seminaries, their grounds, their history, and Al Mohler, T.C. "that Brian", "Iconoclast" and everyone else with it....
It's all yours.
Now, since it's a "Calvinist" document...May we PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Dear Lord, disassociate ourselves from you and start our own convention afresh???
I'd agree to a legal requirement that you take all the Seminaries, all the grounds, and we'll pay any interruption in retirement for all tenured professors............
Will you then, please, become members of the Association of Reformed Baptists....and leave the rest of us alone?
Take whatever you want, it's yours.
Please, then, take all those millions of dollars and centuries of investment...and pay Al Mohler's salary from your own pockets and leave the rest of us to continue the Great Commission as we see fit? Will you for the love of the gospel of Jesus Christ do that for us please???
Will you take that deal?
Please say yes.
Partner do you know how this BF&M was organized this last time? Do you know the background and who it was on the committee and what their intent was?
Yes it matters because it goes to the heart of the op. This is the second time today you have posted on a subject in which you do not know all the facts so let me school you. The BF&M committee was set up so as to word it in a way that churches who are calvinistic and who are not both could accept the wording of it. What has happened since then is the [Calvinists] have tried to use to to prove the SBC is largely calvinist. There is a growing divide in the convetion and it is because of attitudes that has been clearly displayed in the op. You [Calvinists] want to keep up divisions like this it is exactly what you will get. There is a growing animosity building up. If not corrected it will come to a head. Its a shame because its not necessary.
Question: SBC member churches are still independent, right? Are they under obligation to adhere to the BFM locally?
They are. They can be disfellowshipped if they are practicing things not according to it. In fact some churches in recent years have been disfellowshipped for bringing homosexuals into leadership.
Local associations and state conventions have acted against the outrage of churches having woman pastors, based on BFM2000 saying that "the office of pastor is limited to men," but the SBC itself has not (so far):
Baptist Press Oct. 20, 2015 Tennessee association disfellowships church with female pastor
Undoubtedly action has been taken against churches with women deacons, in some corners.
But you know the DC association is not going to make an issue of Capitol Hill Baptist Church's having women deacons, for example. Nor is the SBC.
O.K.............
So, do other non-"reformed" or "Calvinistic" Baptists who do not adhere to the "Doctrines of Grace" have your official permission to disassociate?
I Pray to God Almighty, daily, that if you are indeed correct...that this is an exclusively Calvinist document, then, we filthy godless Arminians can now, in good conscience, remove ourselves from any association with you, and continue to obey the Great Commission and obey the gospel as we see fit.
Are you giving us permission to disassociate from Al Mohler?
Please say yes.
I'd give ANYTHING for all non-Calvinists to peaceably part ways with all adherents of that Philosophy, and you can have the Seminaries, their grounds, their history, and Al Mohler, T.C. "that Brian", "Iconoclast" and everyone else with it....
It's all yours.
Now, since it's a "Calvinist" document...May we PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Dear Lord, disassociate ourselves from you and start our own convention afresh???
I'd agree to a legal requirement that you take all the Seminaries, all the grounds, and we'll pay any interruption in retirement for all tenured professors............
Will you then, please, become members of the Association of Reformed Baptists....and leave the rest of us alone?
Take whatever you want, it's yours.
Please, then, take all those millions of dollars and centuries of investment...and pay Al Mohler's salary from your own pockets and leave the rest of us to continue the Great Commission as we see fit? Will you for the love of the gospel of Jesus Christ do that for us please???
Will you take that deal?
Please say yes.
this is a quote from the SBC Faith and Message. (Southern Baptist Convention > The Baptist Faith and Message)
V. Salvation
Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense salvation includes regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification. There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.
Is the underlined an indication of agreement with limited atonement? “...his own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer” mark the connection of blood and believer as uniquely Calvinistic.
A. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.This is clearly that which Calvinistic thinkers see as irresistible grace. The unconditional choice of the Holy Spirit bring the change in the heart FIRST in which causes that person to respond in repentance and faith in which BOTH are “experiences of Grace” granted by God and not human effort - for that which is of God’s grace his not of human extraction.
Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Saviour.
This is truly the perseverance/preservation of the saints.
B. Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal upon principles of His righteousness of all sinners who repent and believe in Christ. Justification brings the believer unto a relationship of peace and favor with God.
C. Sanctification is the experience, beginning in regeneration, by which the believer is set apart to God's purposes, and is enabled to progress toward moral and spiritual maturity through the presence and power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. Growth in grace should continue throughout the regenerate person's life.
D. Glorification is the culmination of salvation and is the final blessed and abiding state of the redeemed.
So how many SBC pastors want to remain in a convention that so openly endorses its Calvinistic roots?
Genesis 3:15; Exodus 3:14-17; 6:2-8; Matthew 1:21; 4:17; 16:21-26; 27:22-28:6; Luke 1:68-69; 2:28-32; John 1:11-14,29; 3:3-21,36; 5:24; 10:9,28-29; 15:1-16; 17:17; Acts 2:21; 4:12; 15:11; 16:30-31; 17:30-31; 20:32; Romans 1:16-18; 2:4; 3:23-25; 4:3ff.; 5:8-10; 6:1-23; 8:1-18,29-39; 10:9-10,13; 13:11-14; 1 Corinthians 1:18,30; 6:19-20; 15:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17-20; Galatians 2:20; 3:13; 5:22-25; 6:15; Ephesians 1:7; 2:8-22; 4:11-16; Philippians 2:12-13; Colossians 1:9-22; 3:1ff.; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; 2 Timothy 1:12; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 2:1-3; 5:8-9; 9:24-28; 11:1-12:8,14; James 2:14-26; 1 Peter 1:2-23; 1 John 1:6-2:11; Revelation 3:20; 21:1-22:5.
Welcome AnnieL!HI I am new, what do you mean accept Christ? Also, what is EVERY one talking about with all the abrevations csn you spell it out for new people?