SBC leaders respond to DOJ investigation

[JonC]

JonC. Please tell me how reporting molestation to SBC protects anyone. You report molestation to the proper Law Enforcement agency. If a church is too stupid to run a background check on All employees and youth volunteers, what will SBC registry do? I think it will make abuse worse because churches will stop running criminal background checks and just look at SBC registry.
SBC should educate churches on how important proper background checks are. If someone molested one of my kids, you wouldn't have to worry about it happening again.
SBC does not have authority over member churches. Giving them that authority is a huge mistake.
I think the way the SBC should handle it would be to require a background check for all church employees for the church to be eligible to participate in retirement plan.

If I understand the investigation correctly, it was about SBC actions involving molestation the SBC was aware of.

But to answer your question, having to report child molestation to a convention or association of churches helps by preventing molesters from simply joining a new church and molesting other children in cases where the church chose to address the issue "in house" or did not involve the authorities.

It would, for example, help First Baptist Church of town A from having their children raped by a child molester who was kicked out of First Baptist in town B.

I know you disagree, but I would not oppose the pictures and names of child molesters being in a billboard for all to see. Maybe you are right, and it's nobody's business. But I'd rather be wary than regretful.

IMHO child molesters have lost all rights, so I do not care if their identity is made known.

As far as requiring background checks, that is the responsibility of the church and not the SBC (they cannot make requirements of the church, but can come up with requirements for membership which would be voted on by churches).

 

[JonC]

What is the Pittsburgh Platform?

Progressive Judiasm.

 

[JonC]

Retirement plan?!? Does the SBC have a retirement pension plan?

No.

 

[xlsdraw]

What is the Pittsburgh Platform?

The 1885 Reform Judaism conference in Pittsburgh that produced the Pittsburgh Platform.

 

[Reynolds]

Retirement plan?!? Does the SBC have a retirement pension plan?

Yep.

 

[Reynolds]

If I understand the investigation correctly, it was about SBC actions involving molestation the SBC was aware of.

But to answer your question, having to report child molestation to a convention or association of churches helps by preventing molesters from simply joining a new church and molesting other children in cases where the church chose to address the issue "in house" or did not involve the authorities.

It would, for example, help First Baptist Church of town A from having their children raped by a child molester who was kicked out of First Baptist in town B.

I know you disagree, but I would not oppose the pictures and names of child molesters being in a billboard for all to see. Maybe you are right, and it's nobody's business. But I'd rather be wary than regretful.

IMHO child molesters have lost all rights, so I do not care if their identity is made known.

As far as requiring background checks, that is the responsibility of the church and not the SBC (they cannot make requirements of the church, but can come up with requirements for membership which would be voted on by churches).

I agree with all you say about Child molestors. All is covered by the C.J. system. Ever heard of sex offender registry?

 

[Revmitchell]

JonC. Please tell me how reporting molestation to SBC protects anyone. You report molestation to the proper Law Enforcement agency. If a church is too stupid to run a background check on All employees and youth volunteers, what will SBC registry do? I think it will make abuse worse because churches will stop running criminal background checks and just look at SBC registry.
SBC should educate churches on how important proper background checks are. If someone molested one of my kids, you wouldn't have to worry about it happening again.
SBC does not have authority over member churches. Giving them that authority is a huge mistake.
I think the way the SBC should handle it would be to require a background check for all church employees for the church to be eligible to participate in retirement plan.

An SBC registry is redundant and useless. Its a bunch of wokies trying to make themselves feel good.

 

[JonC]

I agree with all you say about Child molestors. All is covered by the C.J. system ever heard of sex offender registry?

How do set offenders end up on the registry if churches do not notify law enforcement of allegations?

You are skipping ahead way too far. I agree that convicted sex offenders do not need to be convicted for the crimes of which they are already convicted.

Thing is, I do not believe most churches are equipped to investigate allegations of sexual abuse on their own (which is often what occurs...churches think there is nothing worth investigating because so and so is a beloved member).

 

[Reynolds]

How do set offenders end up on the registry if churches do not notify law enforcement of allegations?

You are skipping ahead way too far. I agree that convicted sex offenders do not need to be convicted for the crimes of which they are already convicted.

Thing is, I do not believe most churches are equipped to investigate allegations of sexual abuse on their own (which is often what occurs...churches think there is nothing worth investigating because so and so is a beloved member).

I said Report to L.E. not SBC.
Churches are legally obligated to report to L.E.
The whole "SBC" involvement is just stupid.
Churches do not investigate abuse. They report ALL allegations to L.E. The church must report or they are in violation of the law.

 

[Revmitchell]

I said Report to L.E. not SBC.
Churches are legally obligated to report to L.E.
The whole "SBC" involvement is just stupid.

There is already a national database of sex offenders. If someone is on it they show up in a background check. I will agree if a church is caught not reporting alleged sex abuse and or covering it up then the SBC should demand that all leadership involved be fired and reported or the church be disfellowshiped.

The problem in the SBC is there is a movement to centralize power. That is the real issue. Issues like sex abuse are tools to move in that direction

 

[Reynolds]

As a side note. I worked quite a bit of sex crimes. About half are false allegations. You better be careful publicizing allegations that were dismissed by C.J. system.

 

[JonC]

I said Report to L.E. not SBC.
Churches are legally obligated to report to L.E.
The whole "SBC" involvement is just stupid.
Churches do not investigate abuse. They report ALL allegations to L.E. The church must report or they are in violation of the law.

They do need to report to LE. I agree.

But at the same time it would not be a bad thing for churches partnering together to be aware of such allegations, especially as the SBC helps churches try to fill needs.

I am in favor of my neighborhood being notified if a child molester moves in the area (I know, you think that is over the top, but I have absolutely no respect for child molesters and their privacy).

Churches normally run checks on people working with children, but mist of the people around these children are not workers.

 

[JonC]

There is already a national database of sex offenders. If someone is on it they show up in a background check. I will agree if a church is caught not reporting alleged sex abuse and or covering it up then the SBC should demand that all leadership involved be fired and reported or the church be disfellowshiped.

The problem in the SBC is there is a movement to centralize power. That is the real issue. Issues like sex abuse are tools to move in that direction

I agree completely here.

One thing we are assuming, however, is that background checks are run on the molester by the church. This is probably true if the person is working, particularly with children. But churches should be aware of dangers that can creep into the congregation (probably the best place for a molester to hide and abuse).

I agree with you about the move to centralize power. This has been going on for a long time, and inch by inch it seems to be a growing issue.

 

[Reynolds]

They do need to report to LE. I agree.

But at the same time it would not be a bad thing for churches partnering together to be aware of such allegations, especially as the SBC helps churches try to fill needs.

I am in favor of my neighborhood being notified if a child molester moves in the area (I know, you think that is over the top, but I have absolutely no respect for child molesters and their privacy).

Churches normally run checks on people working with children, but mist of the people around these children are not workers.

Allegations that were dismissed in C.J. system should not he tracked or held against anyone.
Churches should run background checks through local law enforcement on EVERYONE involved with youth.
Background checks from private companies are near worthless.
I cant necessarily pick out men who will mess with teenage girls, but I can spot a male on male child molestor pretty quickly. I might be wrong about some, but if they act too "sweet" they don't work with the kids.
When I was involved in BSA, I knew who the "sweet" scout masters were. Years later, most my suspicions were confirmed.

 

[Salty]

Retirement plan?!? Does the SBC have a retirement pension plan?

Yes, strictly voluntarily

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[Reynolds]

No.

You wrong on that J.C.

 

[JonC]

Allegations that were dismissed in C.J. system should not he tracked or held against anyone.
Churches should run background checks through local law enforcement on EVERYONE involved with youth.
Background checks from private companies are near worthless.
I cant necessarily pick out men who will mess with teenage girls, but I can spot a male on male child molestor pretty quickly. I might be wrong about some, but if they act too "sweet" they don't work with the kids.
When I was involved in BSA, I knew who the "sweet" scout masters were. Years later, most my suspicions were confirmed.

I am not talking about processed cases or instances where a person was found guilty.

I am saying that I do not want an accused child molester, who has accusations against him or her, watching children until they are investigated and cleared.

Like you, I do not have much faith in our justice system.

Unlike you, I am not putting my faith in the justice system to identify those who may endanger children.

Why do you trust the government so much?

 

[JonC]

You wrong on that J.C.

No, I am not. The SBC does not even pay the staff of SBC churches. How are they going to have a retirement plan from the SBC??????

 

[Reynolds]

I am not talking about processed cases or instances where a person was found guilty.

I am saying that I do not want an accused child molester, who has accusations against him or her, watching children until they are investigated and cleared.

Like you, I do not have much faith in our justice system.

Unlike you, I am not putting my faith in the justice system to identify those who may endanger children.

Why do you trust the government so much?

I trust local L.E. pretty well.

Pastor Jay gets accused by a young man of molestation. It is reported to local L.E. they investigate. They take their typical year. They send it to D.A. He determines there is not grounds to prosecute. There will never be a formal exoneration of pastor Jay. It's not like the c.J. system usually declares someone Innocent. (That does happen on extremely rare occasion, to do it, the D.A. would have to charge the person of the crime and then dismiss the charge "with prejudice". That is a 1 in a million occurrence)
What you gonna do with pastor Jay who was falsely accused?
Keep his name and picture on SBC wall of shame for 2 years? Three years? Forever? Doing that to a falsely accused person is sinful and shameful!

 

[JonC]

I trust local L.E. pretty well.

Pastor Jay gets accused by a young man of molestation. It is reported to local L.E. they investigate. They take their typical year. They send it to D.A. He determines there is not grounds to prosecute. There will never be a formal exoneration of pastor Jay. It's not like the c.J. system usually declares someone Innocent. (That does happen on extremely rare occasion, to do it, the D.A. would have to charge the person of the crime and then dismiss the charge "with prejudice". That is a 1 in a million occurrence)
What you gonna do with pastor Jay who was falsely accused?
Keep his name and picture on SBC wall of shame for 2 years? Three years? Forever? Doing that to a falsely accused person is sinful and shameful!

It depends. It is up to the local church. A pastor has to have a good (moral) reputation. The church should know that he was accused, tried, and acquitted of child molestation. Then they question him about the circumstances and prayerfully make a decision.

Is it fair to Pastor Jay? No, but life is not fair and Pastor Jay needs to consider the witness of the church before himself.

Also, too many times I've seen abusers found guilty only after having been acquitted at least once.

I share neither your faith in the government nor your distrust of churches.