SBC leaders respond to DOJ investigation

[JonC]

Jon C. You only get found not guilty if you get charged. You said you wanted to list all accused.

Duh. I know that.

I want the churches to be aware of accusations (not past allegations) so that they will not be shrugged off (like what happened to those listed).

If the investigation finds no molestation occurred then why would they be charged??? Why woukd they be treated as if they were guilty???? . Why would the issue continue (except, unfortunately, in the minds of some)??? I said a pastor should reveal that information because you said just the allegation would damage his reputation (the church should not be blindsided).

What SBC registry were you talking about? That is what I can't find in the article @Revmitchell posted.

1. Do you have a link to the proposed SBC registry?

2. Don't we already have a national registry?

 

[JonC]

Jon, the SBC has been discussing a registry for some time. Without a registry, how they going to accomplish your wild ideas?

I don't know what you are talking about.

I know nothing of a registry (please provide a link).

I mentioned two actions:

1. Cooperating with law enforcement regarding allegations of sexual abuse.

2. Churches creating policies to make sure allegations are addressed and conducting background checks.

How are those "wild ideas".

Note - I normally expect the SBC to overreach, but I don't see anything in the resolution that is objectionable.


You and @Revmitchell have pounced, I get that. But keep it real. The two things I believe should happen in regard to the SBC is listed above (don't try to create my view, it is above in two very clear points).

If you disagree then disagree. But disagree with me, not outlying ideas.

 

[Reynolds]

Post 21 JonC.

 

[Hackberry]

JonC. Please tell me how reporting molestation to SBC protects anyone. You report molestation to the proper Law Enforcement agency. If a church is too stupid to run a background check on All employees and youth volunteers, what will SBC registry do? I think it will make abuse worse because churches will stop running criminal background checks and just look at SBC registry.
SBC should educate churches on how important proper background checks are. If someone molested one of my kids, you wouldn't have to worry about it happening again.
SBC does not have authority over member churches. Giving them that authority is a huge mistake.
I think the way the SBC should handle it would be to require a background check for all church employees for the church to be eligible to participate in retirement plan.

Assuming law enforcement is not crooked.

 

[JonC]

Post 21 JonC.

I agree with post 21. But that is not a wild idea.

A girl accuses Pastor R of molestation. It isn't reported or investigated. Pastor R agrees to leave quietly and the church agrees. They sweep it under the rug and the pastor goes to another church where he molests others. This often happens, but it could often be prevented.

I am for reporting allegations. Not for holding past allegations against the innocent but for maintaining a record of them and reporting to law enforcement for investigation.

Now please provide a link to this SBC registry you said has been talked about for years.

 

[Reynolds]

I agree with post 21. But that is not a wild idea.

A girl accuses Pastor R of molestation. It isn't reported or investigated. Pastor R agrees to leave quietly and the church agrees. They sweep it under the rug and the pastor goes to another church where he molests others. This often happens, but it could often be prevented.

I am for reporting allegations. Not for holding past allegations against the innocent but for maintaining a record of them and reporting to law enforcement for investigation.

Now please provide a link to this SBC registry you said has been talked about for years.

You have moved the goal posts a mile and a half on a 100 yard field.
The laws in all 50 states require that sexual abuse reported to a church be reported to law enforcement. So if SBC member Church that likes to hide things, refuses to comply with the law, what makes you think they will comply with the SBC?

 

[JonC]

You have moved the goal posts a mile and a half on a 100 yard field.
The laws in all 50 states require that sexual abuse reported to a church be reported to law enforcement. So if SBC member Church that likes to hide things, refuses to comply with the law, what makes you think they will comply with the SBC?

The issue is they ate not reported.

Often it is not that they like to hide things, but rather are in denial that their clergy could do such things.

Creating policies have proven to help with the Methodists. I do not expect they are that that unique an organization.

I am not really sure why you ate so opposed to the development of policies to deal with sexual misconduct. But when the current situation does not work, changes need to be considered.

Again, please provide a link to the SBC registry that you say has been discussed for a long time. I am interested in reading its purpose and what it would contain.

 

[Reynolds]

The issue is they ate not reported.

Often it is not that they like to hide things, but rather are in denial that their clergy could do such things.

Creating policies have proven to help with the Methodists. I do not expect they are that that unique an organization.

I am not really sure why you ate so opposed to the development of policies to deal with sexual misconduct. But when the current situation does not work, changes need to be considered.

Again, please provide a link to the SBC registry that you say has been discussed for a long time. I am interested in reading its purpose and what it would contain.

I am just tired of dealing with you circles in logic and your intentionally manipulating and twisting what is said. I am going to take a long break from here before I violate board rules in dealing with you trolling and your intentional dishonesty.

 

[JonC]

I am just tired of dealing with you circles in logic and your intentionally manipulating and twisting what is said. I am going to take a long break from here before I violate board rules in dealing with you trolling and your intentional dishonesty.

???

I am not manipulating anything. I am telling you my opinion and asking you to provide a link to this SBC registry you said has been being discussed for a long time in the SBC.

Jon, the SBC has been discussing a registry for some time.

I'm not saying you are wrong about such a registry. I just do not know anything about it.

As far as the SBC goes, it serves many roles. I think it often oversteps, but it has value as well. SBC churches come together in the SBC to maintain SBC seminaries. It provides missions within the US (my son just came from a GenSend mission), church planting (@Revmitchell is working with the NAMB), and foreign missions.

I just believe the SBC could be an outside (outside of the church) tool local churches could use in terms of countering sexual misconduct and helping to develop policies.

That is not circular logic. It is using the SBC for accountability and a bit of insurance (to demonstrate accountability).
That is not being dishonest.

What may be dishonest is your claim the SBC has been discussing a SBC registry for years (as you refuse to validate that claim).

Too often we see members make false claims and in response to requests for proof they call names and run away. That is unnecessary. Perhaps you invented the claim. Maybe it was just gossip you repeated. I was just asking so I could be informed (I know nothing of such a registry).

 

[Salty]

Southern Baptist Minister List Included Sex Offenders - Word&Way

 

[JonC]

Southern Baptist Minister List Included Sex Offenders - Word&Way

This is an ongoing problem. SC had 28 sex offenders who were ministers or church staff. This is a good reason to emplement policies designed to remove pastors from that list.

When you think of it, what "better" place for offenders to hide and continue abuse? They are "brothers", not strangers.

Another consequence is the potential for distrust this can have within churches.

Remember the older deacons who always had candy or gum in their pockets for the children? That was normal when I was growing up. Now it could be a cause for suspicion.

I am concerned with all of the rules being implemented in churches, but I understand the reasons. It just makes church feel more like a business than a family.

 

[JonC]

Here's another question, @Salty

Suppose somebody is a convicted sex offender but was saved later in life. Is that person permanently disqualified for the ministry? Woukd you trust him with children?

 

[Reynolds]

???

I am not manipulating anything. I am telling you my opinion and asking you to provide a link to this SBC registry you said has been being discussed for a long time in the SBC.

I'm not saying you are wrong about such a registry. I just do not know anything about it.

As far as the SBC goes, it serves many roles. I think it often oversteps, but it has value as well. SBC churches come together in the SBC to maintain SBC seminaries. It provides missions within the US (my son just came from a GenSend mission), church planting (@Revmitchell is working with the NAMB), and foreign missions.

I just believe the SBC could be an outside (outside of the church) tool local churches could use in terms of countering sexual misconduct and helping to develop policies.

That is not circular logic. It is using the SBC for accountability and a bit of insurance (to demonstrate accountability).
That is not being dishonest.

What may be dishonest is your claim the SBC has been discussing a SBC registry for years (as you refuse to validate that claim).

Too often we see members make false claims and in response to requests for proof they call names and run away. That is unnecessary. Perhaps you invented the claim. Maybe it was just gossip you repeated. I was just asking so I could be informed (I know nothing of such a registry).

@JonC ,bI am tired of you subtly calling me a liar.
https://www.macon.com/news/local/article261858640.html

With that, I am on extended break from this place and your nasty, deceptive attitude.

 

[JonC]

@JonC, I am tired of you subtly calling me a liar.
https://www.macon.com/news/local/article261858640.html

With that, I am on an extended break from this place and your nasty, deceptive attitude.

I'm not calling you a liar (I never did). I said that I am unaware of an SBC sex offender registry and asked for a link.

The link provided doesn't help.

Is there a SBC sex offender registry? Is it different from the National registry? What is its purpose?

As far as a registry goes, I would think the National registry would work for those convicted. But the SBC needs to utilize it as they have pastors on their avaliable pastor role who are also on the national registry (one still in jail).

 

[JonC]

For those unable to read the article @Reynolds provides as proof the SBC maintains a registry of allegations, the article is below.

"Thirty-four people who pastored, worked in or volunteered at churches in Georgia are named on a list of alleged abusers released late Thursday by the Southern Baptist Convention’s top leadership.

The 205-page list was compiled by a former employee of the SBC’s Executive Committee and was made public for the first time.

The list, labeled “highly confidential,” was released in what two officials with the SBC committee said was " an initial, but important, step towards addressing the scourge of sexual abuse.”

“Sunlight is the best disinfectant and we do not yet know whether current SBC leadership has thrown the window open wide or if they are still drawing curtains to protect their church,” said Zach Hiner, executive director of SNAP (Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests). “It is incumbent on our attorneys general, district attorneys, and local police and prosecutors to find the truth and share it with the American public.”

The list includes roughly 750 names with details of abuses they are alleged to have committed and links to news stories covering some of the cases. There are many redactions or blacked-out sections on the list and it notes: “The information is largely pulled from news articles complied from 2007 until 2022. It is incomplete. It has not been proofed. It has not been adequately researched. It is not Southern Baptist specific.”

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Justice Department Investigates Southern Baptist Conventio…… | News & Reporting | Christianity Today

 

[JonC]

Justice Department Investigates Southern Baptist Conventio…… | News & Reporting | Christianity Today

"An independent investigation by Guidepost Solutions into the EC, released in May 2022, found that over the past 20 years, its leaders had compiled a secret list of more than 700 abusive pastors, mishandled allegations, and mistreated the victims who asked for help.The investigation, which cost over $2 million, spanned 330 interviews and five terabytes of documents collected over eight months.Hours before the EC confirmed the Justice Department inquiry, blogger Ben Cole tweeted that federal investigators had sought the unredacted version of that report and had begun issuing grand jury subpoena"


This is why something needs to be done. We can't just go on with blind eyes.

Churches are, unfortunately, a perfect opportunity for abuses to take place. No different than the boy scouts in that aspect. We tend to trust our fellow members, and we should be able to. But we can't, not without caution.