Vergebens!
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BR(?)"...the scapegoat is NOT sacrificed, as you will notice. he goes away ALIVE".
Claudia_T said:NOTE:
the quote above from Revelation refers to the time when Satan as the scapegoat will wander in the wilderness and then the quotes from Isaiah and Ezekiel refer to the time when Satan will finally be destroyed in the Lake of Fire. He has the sins ultimately put upon him not as an atoning sacrifice but because ultimately he is responsible for having tempted and deceived all who have sinned.
and he is finally destroyed because of it, in the Lake of Fire.... he along with the wicked angels who too have deceived sinners.
GE: Then God ultimately punished the wrong party when He punished the wicked for their wickedness!
Heavenly Pilgrim said:HP: Why would you see anything strange about that, seeing that we are punished, according to those believing in original sin, for the sin of Adam?
We sin because of Adam, and Adam sinned because of Eve, and Eve sinned because of Satan, and …………..Oh well, it doesn’t really matter does it? What is important is that we all have someone else to blame.:thumbsup:
GE: Were we not born guilty and worthy of death, we would have had an excuse for our depravity, and not a depravity as part of our own being as our own bodies.
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:CT:
"ultimately every sin is the RESPONSIBILITY of Satan..."
GE: Then God ultimately punished the wrong party when He punished the wicked for their wickedness!
Claudia: Why does the Bible says the Devil is cast into the lake of fire?
Eric B: Let us get this straight!
Is there justice with God? Is not God a God of justice, as well as of compassion and mercy? Who is the real author of our sins? The devil is the author of them, even as Christ is the author of our salvation.
BR: The Scape goat primarily represents Satan
Remember, this is not my view, it is Armstrong. As I said, I see where it is connected with some of his false doctrines. As I told Bob on another thread, Armstrong believed that almost everyone will be saved. Using a twisted two-point Calvinism (T-U) he says that all are not called now, but will be at the Great White Throne (which is for calling, not for sentencing to Hell). Only these who still refuse, or those called now who refuse are lost. So almost all people's sins are redeemed, and placed back on Satan, who of course is not saved. At one point, I had believed in this. I hadn't read this in a while, and when getting the quote for this discussion, I too was struck by his use of the concept of "justice" as an emotive argument. That is why I included that stuff I had to edit out of the first point for length; to illustrate his shaky line of reasoning.Heavenly Pilgrim said:
HP: You present a mighty skewed sense of justice, compassion and mercy Eric. If the devil is the cause, then the devil is the only one to blame. Cause and blame go together in any semblance of justice. Under what conditions can you imagine that the innocent is just as guilty and as such the rightful recipient of punishment as is the cause of the infraction of Gods law?
Scripture is clear. Everyone is responsible for their own sin and not that of another. Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Heavenly Pilgrim said:HP: You have it precisely backwards. Were we not born guilty and worthy of death, we would have no excuse for our sins. We would only have our own willful rebellion against known commandments of God to blame for our sins, just as Scripture and reason inform us.
Eric B said:Remember, this is not my view, it is Armstrong. As I said, I see where it is connected with some of his false doctrines. As I told Bob on another thread, Armstrong believed that almost everyone will be saved. Using a twisted two-point Calvinism (T-U) he says that all are not called now, but will be at the Great White Throne (which is for calling, not for sentencing to Hell). Only these who still refuse, or those called now who refuse are lost. So almost all people's sins are redeemed, and placed back on Satan, who of course is not saved. At one point, I had believed in this.
Eric B said:This is Armstrong's treatment of the issue, from Pagan Holidays or God's Holy days: Which? This was always the view I took, but now I do see more where it is connected with some of his false doctrines. However; it still makes some good points.
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=book&id=1238§ion=1301
Heavenly Pilgrim said:HP: I read, I believe in “The Temple” by Alfred Edersheim, that when they took the scapegoat into the wilderness that they actually run or pushed it off a cliff to insure that it did not return.