Schumer Caves

[Rob_BW]

Actually, the beat goes on. This hasn't been resolved. The can was just kicked down the road to Feb. 8. Then we'll run into this all over again but CHIPS is now off the table. Do the Democrats have a stronger or weaker position for the next battle than they had for this one? I say yes.

But chips wasn't added, right? It was always in the bill.

So Schumer spent political capital on this shutdown for...what exactly?

Even NPR was calling him out. You know it's got to be rough when the American Pravda is calling out the Democratic Senate leader.

 

[just-want-peace]

Actually, the beat goes on. This hasn't been resolved. The can was just kicked down the road to Feb. 8. Then we'll run into this all over again but CHIPS is now off the table. Do the Democrats have a stronger or weaker position for the next battle than they had for this one? I say yes.

 

[thatbrian]

They say that soy seduces testosterone.

It was the Trump/Schumer shutdown.

It's ridiculous that Republicans and Democrats cannot agree to do the obviously decent thing, provide a path to citizenship for Dreamers. Playing politics with it is contemptible, and the current hard-right "Republican" opposition to it is deplorable.

And I know some are going to jump on that statement because it would represent "amnesty" (aka grace) to people who are in a difficult situation. As a disciple of Jesus, I don't have the luxury of placing "America First" over the calling of the Kingdom of God. I can give Caesar his due, but I must be an advocate for the Kingdom of God to change Caesar's mind in terms of what is moral and right, since I also have influence as a member of Caesar (citizen in a democratic republic).

Thankfully, amnesty is not yours to give away.

You are conflating interpersonal relational Christian ideals with how states operate. Following your logic, we should give "grace" to all lawbreakers.

What you fail to understand is that God gave the sword to the state for the very purpose of upholding law and keeping order, for the good of its citizens.

 

[Yeshua1]

Therefore, the Republicans caved in to avoid a disaster in the mid-year elections.

Liberals and Dems always either see things not there, or make up things not there!

 

[FollowTheWay]

But chips wasn't added, right? It was always in the bill.

So Schumer spent political capital on this shutdown for...what exactly?

Even NPR was calling him out. You know it's got to be rough when the American Pravda is calling out the Democratic Senate leader.

Congress Funds CHIP, Ends Three-Day Shutdown

Jack O'Brien, January 23, 2018
From <http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/leadership/congress-funds-chip-ends-three-day-shutdown>

CHIP, which provides health insurance to 9 million low-income children, had not been fully funded since Congress failed to reauthorize its funding by October 1. As part of the CR passed last month, Congress authorized $2.85 billion for CHIP programs across the country though nearly a dozen states are slated to exhaust those funds by the end of February.

A short-term fix ($3B out of the required $14B) was included in the previous CR.

 

[Jerome]

Do the Democrats have a stronger or weaker position for the next battle than they had for this one? I say yes.

You're really going out on a limb with a prediction like that!

 

[Revmitchell]

Therefore, the Republicans caved in to avoid a disaster in the mid-year elections.

Delusional

 

[FollowTheWay]

You're really going out on a limb with a prediction like that!

It's not a prediction. It's my analysis of the current situation.

 

[Revmitchell]

It's not a prediction. It's my analysis of the current situation.

Neither moveon.org, thinkprogress, aclu etc doesnt agree with you

 

[FollowTheWay]

Neither moveon.org, thinkprogress, aclu etc doesnt agree with you

I'm glad you consider them to be good sources but show me a quote with a link.

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm glad you consider them to be good sources but show me a quote with a link.

I didn;t say anything about them being a source. I mentioned their reaction to the Democrats failure on this. Not the same thing as a source.

 

[Jerome]

Could someone else explain what the following means. I don't get his "analysis".

FollowTheWay said: "Do the Democrats have a stronger or weaker position for the next battle than they had for this one? I say yes."

 

[Reformed]

But chips wasn't added, right? It was always in the bill.

So Schumer spent political capital on this shutdown for...what exactly?

Even NPR was calling him out. You know it's got to be rough when the American Pravda is calling out the Democratic Senate leader.

CHIP was always in the CR. The fact is that Schumer had his head handed to him. Of course, die-hard Dems have no choice but to try and claim victory after a sound butt-whipping. Today Schumer came out and said that he is removing funding for the border wall from any negotiations about the next C.R. This is going to be fun to watch. The Dems really do not understand Trump. Trump lives for this stuff. Trump not only wants to win, he wants to rub Schumer's nose in the dirt. He played Schumer like a Stradivarius when he invited the Dems to the White House to ostensibly talk about immigration. All Trump wanted to do was find out what was in the Dems playbook.

If Trump is smart he will push for a DACA deal but give the Dems nothing else. Actually, a DACA deal is good for the GOP and America. We do have to show some level of compassion for young Dreamers who were brought here (illegally) by their parents. We should not reward the parents for their illegal actions. If the parents are allowed to stay they should be denied citizenship for a specified period of time as a penalty. If the GOP co-ops DACA it puts the Dems squarely on their heels. It takes away one of their big issues for the 2018 and 2020 elections. Combine DACA with real immigration reform (i.e. "the wall") and the Democrats will have conniption fits.

 

[Reformed]

One last thing. Democrats are generally wusses. They have succeeded over the years because Republicans are even bigger wusses. The best way to defeat a Democrat is to take them in the ally, roll up your sleeves, and fight them. They are not used to that. They are used to Republicans back peddling and giving in. That is why I resigned from the Republican party and became an independent. I could not take being a member of a party of cowards. If they ever want to win me back they will only be able to do so if they bloody their knuckles on the chin of Democrats.

 

[Rob_BW]

Congress Funds CHIP, Ends Three-Day Shutdown

Jack O'Brien, January 23, 2018
From <http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/leadership/congress-funds-chip-ends-three-day-shutdown>

CHIP, which provides health insurance to 9 million low-income children, had not been fully funded since Congress failed to reauthorize its funding by October 1. As part of the CR passed last month, Congress authorized $2.85 billion for CHIP programs across the country though nearly a dozen states are slated to exhaust those funds by the end of February.

A short-term fix ($3B out of the required $14B) was included in the previous CR.

And? That article does not say that chips funding was added after the Schumer Shutdown. It does not make any sort of cause and effect relationship between the Schumer Shutdown and chips funding.

 

[Baptist Believer]

They say that soy seduces testosterone.

I think this comment must be from another conversation. Sorry to hear about your low T situation.

I strictly avoid all soy since it can help produce kidney stones with my medical history. Fortunately, I've always disliked it.

Thankfully, amnesty is not yours to give away.

Actually, it is OURS to offer, under the appropriate circumstances. When persons are facing deportation from the only country they have ever known, base on circumstances beyond their control, grace (or "amnesty" as some right-wingers contemptuously say) is an appropriate response. As a disciple of Jesus, representing the Kingdom of God, who also has a voice in "Caesar's" policies, it is entirely appropriate to be an advocate for a path to citizenship for these persons.

You are conflating interpersonal relational Christian ideals with how states operate.

Um, no. You have made the wrong assumption. I have thought deeply and studied carefully the intersection of the Kingdom of God and the role of the state for more than 30 years. The Kingdom of God is much more than "interpersonal relational Christian ideals", and the needs of the Kingdom of God (justice, grace, mercy, liberty, etc.) must guide the citizen as they seek to be an advocate for the will of God in political affairs.

Following your logic, we should give "grace" to all lawbreakers.

You don't understand my "logic." Did you notice that I am talking about a path to citizenship, not just saying that they should automatically become citizens? The Kingdom of God is also about justice. The loving thing is often to punish the guilty. At the same time, in the American tradition of justice, there is usually mercy involved in the administration of justice, except for the worst crimes. We don't automatically execute people for driving over the speed limit or even for robbing a bank.

What you fail to understand is that God gave the sword to the state for the very purpose of upholding law and keeping order, for the good of its citizens.

I understand that just fine. I don't know if you are being intentionally condescending or are simply ignorant of my position. I want to think the best of you, we will see how you respond.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

It was the Trump/Schumer shutdown.

It's ridiculous that Republicans and Democrats cannot agree to do the obviously decent thing, provide a path to citizenship for Dreamers. Playing politics with it is contemptible, and the current hard-right "Republican" opposition to it is deplorable.

And I know some are going to jump on that statement because it would represent "amnesty" (aka grace) to people who are in a difficult situation. As a disciple of Jesus, I don't have the luxury of placing "America First" over the calling of the Kingdom of God. I can give Caesar his due, but I must be an advocate for the Kingdom of God to change Caesar's mind in terms of what is moral and right, since I also have influence as a member of Caesar (citizen in a democratic republic).

I think it's interesting that "amnesty" is being offered to those who didn't play by the rules. Why is it that this is being rewarded? Imagine someone trying to immigrate the proper way, and watching these people who didn't and are getting amnesty. Why bother having rules if people really don't have to abide by them?

As for the comment about the "Kingdom of God," please elaborate on that statement. What is "moral and right" about rewarding those who have broken the law? What does the Book of James say about those who know to do good, and do it not?

I don't support amnesty, and I identify as a "true" liberal. Moreover, I definitely do not support a government shutdown over these people who have broken the law - to the detriment of our civil servants and active military. IMO the GOP is right on this issue.

Regards,
BiR

 

[Baptist Believer]

I think it's interesting that "amnesty" is being offered to those who didn't play by the rules. Why is it that this is being rewarded? Imagine someone trying to immigrate the proper way, and watching these people who didn't and are getting amnesty. Why bother having rules if people really don't have to abide by them?

I have specifically been talking about "Dreamers" - persons who were brought here a children, when they did not have a say in the matter, and have grown up essentially as Americans.

As for the comment about the "Kingdom of God," please elaborate on that statement. What is "moral and right" about rewarding those who have broken the law? What does the Book of James say about those who know to do good, and do it not?

The lawbreaking was not done by the Dreamers, but by those who brought them here as children. So support for a path to citizenship is not "rewarding" those who have broken the law. Moreover, these Dreamers have - in good faith - registered their status with the government and made their whereabouts known, so they are actually obeying the law now that they are of the age to make choices about it. So they meet the standard of the book of James. As advocates for the Kingdom of God (although many Christians don't realize that the Kingdom of God is present now and that they should be actively doing God's will - as in the model prayer), it is appropriate for us to be advocates for grace when persons find themselves in a situation that they did not create, who are working with the government dictates to make it right.

I don't support amnesty, and I identify as a "true" liberal.

I don't support a general amnesty, and I'm not towing a political party line, nor a political philosophy line. It is simply the decent thing to do.

 

[FollowTheWay]

And? That article does not say that chips funding was added after the Schumer Shutdown. It does not make any sort of cause and effect relationship between the Schumer Shutdown and chips funding.

I think this is a reasonable discussion from both sides but agreeing with my perspective.

Why CHIP funding is a win for Democrats

 

[Revmitchell]

I have specifically been talking about "Dreamers" - persons who were brought here a children, when they did not have a say in the matter, and have grown up essentially as Americans.


The lawbreaking was not done by the Dreamers, but by those who brought them here as children. So support for a path to citizenship is not "rewarding" those who have broken the law. Moreover, these Dreamers have - in good faith - registered their status with the government and made their whereabouts known, so they are actually obeying the law now that they are of the age to make choices about it. So they meet the standard of the book of James. As advocates for the Kingdom of God (although many Christians don't realize that the Kingdom of God is present now and that they should be actively doing God's will - as in the model prayer), it is appropriate for us to be advocates for grace when persons find themselves in a situation that they did not create, who are working with the government dictates to make it right.


I don't support a general amnesty, and I'm not towing a political party line, nor a political philosophy line. It is simply the decent thing to do.

So what do you want the Federal government to do for children of parents who go to jail?