Scripture and Tradition

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Matt Black

"The Jews of the Diaspora, like the Bereans, only had access to the LXX"

GE
Yes; if you forgot oral tradition.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

In fact, seldom if ever did anyone 'read', the LXX! Even as diaspora, the Jews somehow congregated through feasts and Sabbaths where the Thora and the Hebrew Scriptures were read. They always had the few literate and indeed learned among them, whereever. Most clearly Acts 15 presupposes such a situation throughout early Christianity!

 

[BobRyan]

In fact, seldom if ever did anyone 'read', the LXX! Even as diaspora, the Jews somehow congregated through feasts and Sabbaths where the Thora and the Hebrew Scriptures were read. They always had the few literate and indeed learned among them, whereever. Most clearly Acts 15 presupposes such a situation throughout early Christianity!

notice what happens in Acts when Paul wants to get the "crowds" attention?

Acts 21

39 But Paul said, "" I am a Jew of Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no insignificant city; and I beg you, allow me to speak to the people.''
40 When he had given him permission, Paul, standing on the stairs, motioned to the people with his hand; and when there was a great hush, he spoke to them in the Hebrew dialect, saying,

Acts 22


1 "Brethren and fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you."
2 And when they heard that he was addressing them in the Hebrew dialect, they became even more quiet; and he said,


To imagine that these peopel -- (even the crowds in this case) could not read or understand Hebrew is to "ignore the inconvenient details of history and scripture" at EVERY turn!!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Eliyahu]

HP: How does all this Protestant bashing of fellow believers add anything to serious debate or promote godliness?

Are you claiming that the Pagan worshippers, goddess worshippers, Idol worshippers are your fellow believers?
Awfully sad to hear that, my friend !

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

notice what happens in Acts when Paul wants to get the "crowds" attention?

Acts 21

39 But Paul said, "" I am a Jew of Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no insignificant city; and I beg you, allow me to speak to the people.''
40 When he had given him permission, Paul, standing on the stairs, motioned to the people with his hand; and when there was a great hush, he spoke to them in the Hebrew dialect, saying,

Acts 22


1 "Brethren and fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you."
2 And when they heard that he was addressing them in the Hebrew dialect, they became even more quiet; and he said,


To imagine that these peopel -- (even the crowds in this case) could not read or understand Hebrew is to "ignore the inconvenient details of history and scripture" at EVERY turn!!

in Christ,

Bob

GE
Thank you Bob; have never thought of it this way!

 

[GodlyWoman]

We know it doesn't say Trinity in the Bible yet we don't dispute it and reject it. Therefore, why do we dispute and reject Tradition, especially when 2 Tessalonians 2:15 tells us to stand firm and to hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us; when 2 Thess. 3:6 tells us to keep aloof from every brother who leads an unruly life and not hold firmly to the traditions, just as they were delivered them to us?

 

[GodlyWoman]

IMHO, Christians WITHOUT tradition must led pretty dry and boring lives. Tradition just helps us remind us who we are as Christians.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

We know it doesn't say Trinity in the Bible yet we don't dispute it and reject it. Therefore, why do we dispute and reject Tradition, especially when 2 Tessalonians 2:15 tells us to stand firm and to hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us; when 2 Thess. 3:6 tells us to keep aloof from every brother who leads an unruly life and not hold firmly to the traditions, just as they were delivered them to us?

Matthew 6:9 tells us to pray to God. Why do you dispute and reject Christ's command and pray to Mary?

 

[Joe]

Christians don't need traditions to feel close to God. The Lords supper and Baptism are sufficient.

If tradition is that important, then at least attend a Lutheran church. Their traditions
are similar to Catholic, and it even resembles a Catholic Church. Pastors wear the Priest type robes, communion is each and every week and they recite the same prayers every week- Aposltes Creed etc...

I think you would like it there.

 

[Linda64]

IMHO, Christians WITHOUT tradition must led pretty dry and boring lives. Tradition just helps us remind us who we are as Christians.

Christians WITHOUT tradition have riches in Christ which can never be taken away...a dry and boring life? HARDLY!

THE BELIEVER'S RICHES IN CHRIST FROM A TO Z

Accepted in the beloved (Ephesians 1:6)

Born of God (1 John 5:1)

Crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20)

Delivered from the power of darkness (Colossians 1:13)

Enriched in everything in Him (1 Corinthians 1:5)

Forgiven for Christ's sake (Ephesians 4:32)

Grounded in love (Ephesians 3:17)

Hid with Christ (Colossians 3:3)

Instructed in the way of the Lord (Acts 18:25)

Justified by His grace (Titus 3:7)

Kept by the power of God (1 Peter 1:5)

Led by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:14)

Made nigh by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:14)

Nourished in the words of faith (1 Timothy 4:6)

Ordained to eternal life (Acts 13:48)

Perfected forever (Hebrews 10:14)

Quickened together with Christ (Ephesians 2:5)

Redeemed from the curse of the law (Galatians 3:13)

Sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (Ephesians 1:13)

Translated into the kingdom of His dear Son (Colossians 1:13)

Unreproveable in His sight (Colossians 1:22)

Victorious through our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:57)

Washed from our sins in his own blood (Revelation 1:5)

Yearned over by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:26)

Zealous of good works (Titus 2:14)

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Who Am I?​

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] I am the salt of the earth (Matt. 5:13).
I am the light of the world (Matt. 5:14).
I am a Child of God (John 1:12).
I am a part of the true vine, a channel of Christ’s life (John 15:1,5).
I am Christ’s friend (John 15:15).
I am chosen and appointed by Christ to bear His fruit (John 15:16).
I am a slave of righteousness (Rom. 6:18).
I am enslaved to God (Rom. 6:22).
I am a son of God; God is spiritually my Father (Rom. 8:14,15; Gal. 3:26; 4:6).
I am a joint-heir with Christ, sharing His inheritance with Him (Rom. 8:17).
I am a temple—a dwelling place—of God. His Spirit and His life dwells in me (1 Cor. 3:16; 6:19).
I am united to the Lord and am one spirit with Him (1 Cor. 6:17).
I am a member of Christ’s Body (1 Cor. 12:27; Eph. 5:30).
I am a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17).
I am reconciled to God and am a minister of Reconciliation (2 Cor. 5:18,19).
I am a son of God and one in Christ (Gal. 3:26,28).
I am an heir of God since I am a son of God (Gal. 4:6,7).
I am a saint (Eph. 1:1; 1 Cor. 1:2; Phil. 1:1; Col. 1:2).
I am God’s workmanship—His handiwork—born anew in Christ to do His work (Eph. 2:10).
I am a fellow citizen with the rest of God’s family (Eph. 2:19).
I am a prisoner of Christ (Eph. 3:1; 4:1).
I am righteous and holy (Eph. 4:24).
I am a citizen of heaven, seated in heaven right now (Phil. 3:20; Eph. 2:6).
I am hidden with Christ in God (Col. 3:3).
I am an expression of the life of Christ because He is my life (Col. 3:4).
I am chosen of God, holy and dearly loved (Col. 3:12; 1 Thess. 1:4).
I am a son of light and not of darkness (1 Thess. 5:5).
I am a holy partaker of a heavenly calling (Heb. 3:1).
I am a partaker of Christ; I share in His life (Heb. 3:14).
I am one of God’s living stones, being built up in Christ as a spiritual house (1 Pet. 2:5).
I am a member of a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession (1 Pet. 2:9,10).
I am an alien and stranger to this world in which I temporarily live (1 Pet. 2:11).
I am an enemy of the devil (1 Pet. 5:8).
I am a Child of God and I will resemble Christ when He returns (1 John 3:1,2).
I am born of God, and the evil one—the devil—cannot touch me (1 John 5:18).
I am not the great “I AM” (Exod. 3:14; John 8:24,28,58), but by the grace of God, I am what I am (1 Cor. 15:10).

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Since I am in Christ, by the Grace of God…​

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] I have been justified—completely forgiven and made righteous (Rom. 5:1).
I died with Christ and died to the power of sin’s rule over my life (Rom. 6:1-6).
I am free forever from condemnation (Rom. 8:1).
I have been placed into Christ by God’s doing (1 Cor. 1:30).
I have received the Spirit of God into my life that I might know the things freely given to me by God (1 Cor. 2:12).
I have been given the mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2:16).
I have been bought with a price; I am not my own; I belong to God (1 Cor. 6:19,20)
I have been established, anointed and sealed by God in Christ, and I have been given the Holy Spirit as a pledge guaranteeing my inheritance to come (2 Cor. 1:21; Eph. 1:13,14).
Since I have died, I no longer live for myself, but for Christ (2 Cor. 5:14,15).
I have been made righteous (2 Cor. 5:21).
I have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. The life I am now living is Christ’s life (Gal. 2:20).
I have been blessed with every spiritual blessing (Eph 1:3).
I was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and am without blame before Him (Eph. 1:4).
I was predestined—determined by God—to be adopted as God’s son (Eph. 1:5).
I have been redeemed and forgiven, and I am a recipient of His lavish grace. (Eph. 1:7).
I have been made alive together with Christ (Eph. 2:5).
I have been raised up and seated with Christ in Heaven (Eph. 2:6).
I have direct access to God through the Spirit (Eph. 2:18).
I may approach God with boldness, freedom and confidence (Eph.3:12).
Christ Himself is in me (Col. 1:27).
I am firmly rooted in Christ and am now being built in Him (Col. 2:7).
I have been spiritually circumcised. My old unregenerate nature has been removed (Col. 2:11).
I have been made complete in Christ (Col. 2:10).
I have been buried, raised and made alive with Christ (Col. 2:12,13).
I died with Christ and I have been raised up with Christ. My life is now hidden with Christ in God. Christ is now my life (Col.3:1-4).
I have been given the spirit of power, love and a sound mind (2 Tim. 1:7).
I have been saved and set apart according to God’s doing (2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 3:5).
Because I am sanctified and am one with the Sanctifier, He is not ashamed to call me Brother (Heb. 2:11).
I have the right to come boldly before the throne of God to find mercy and grace in time of need (Heb. 4:16).
I have been given exceedingly great and precious promises by God by which I am a partaker of God’s divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4).
I have been rescued from the domain of satan’s rule and transferred to the kingdom of Christ (Col. 1:13).
I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins. The debt against me has been cancelled (Col. 1:14).

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Godly Women: Therefore, why do we dispute and reject Tradition, especially when 2 Tessalonians 2:15 tells us to stand firm and to hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us; when 2 Thess. 3:6 tells us to keep aloof from every brother who leads an unruly life and not hold firmly to the traditions, just as they were delivered them to us?

HP: Could you inform the list as to what the traditions spoken of in this text are referring to? What traditions? Anyone’s traditions? Everyone’s traditions? Traditions yet to be established by the Roman Catholic Church or the multitudes of others to come? Can one start a tradition yet today and it be obligatory upon our posterity to follow it, citing the verses you do concerning traditions as support? Be specific.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

What an exciting and blessed life is ours as believers, as Linda and StandingfirminChrist have so aptly shown forth!:thumbs: :thumbs:

 

[D28guy]

I *thought* I knew what living was my whole life up till age 25..

Then I got born again! :thumbs:

Mike

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I *thought* I knew what living was my whole life up till age 25..

Then I got born again! :thumbs:

Mike

Amen! Few words, but powerful testimony in those words!:applause:

 

[DHK]

We know it doesn't say Trinity in the Bible yet we don't dispute it and reject it. Therefore, why do we dispute and reject Tradition, especially when 2 Tessalonians 2:15 tells us to stand firm and to hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us; when 2 Thess. 3:6 tells us to keep aloof from every brother who leads an unruly life and not hold firmly to the traditions, just as they were delivered them to us?

I explained these verses to you in complete detail, and never got an answer from you. I can only conclude that you would accept my explanation since you would not refute it. Here is a partial quote from it:

A gross misinterpretation of the verse.
The word "tradition" simply means "truth" as in the truth of God's word. Think of it.
First, I looked up the word tradition in a Catholic Encycopedia. It said that it was teaching, oral or written, passed down from generation to generation over many years throughout centuries.
Now apply that to this verse. The beginning of the church was at Pentecost shortly after the resurrection of Christ, about 29 A.D. Paul wrote the letter to the Thessalonians around 60 A.D. How much "tradition" (according to a Catholic definition) could be passed down in a period of 30 years? Obviously none! There was no time for any tradition to develop. There is no logical sense here whatsoever.
"The tradition (the teaching of the Word of God) which you have received from us--whether by preaching and teaching (orally) or by written letter (written). There is no tradition as interpreted by the Catholics.
The term is simply used as the truth of God's Word, which Paul had been teaching to them.

It is pretty difficult to have traditions within a period of 30 years isn't it? Go back and read the full post where I explain all the verses that you took out of context "and wrested unto your own destruction" as Peter said.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1152636&postcount=104

 

[BobRyan]

We know it doesn't say Trinity in the Bible yet we don't dispute it and reject it. Therefore, why do we dispute and reject Tradition, especially when 2 Tessalonians 2:15 tells us to stand firm and to hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us; when 2 Thess. 3:6 tells us to keep aloof from every brother who leads an unruly life and not hold firmly to the traditions, just as they were delivered them to us?

#1. The Trinity concept is contained as doctrine in scripture "Baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" Matt 28. But it is TRADITION that selects the "name" for it -- "trinity".

#2. Saying that the NAME of a doctrine comes from tradition is VERY different from saying that the DOCTRINE comes from tradition. Equivocation there will not help make the case for the tradition-oriented churches.

#3. If your argument is that "there exists some good tradition" then you are correct. However KNOWING what is correct tradition can only be via the "sola scriptura" process of judging ALL faith and practice against scripture.

#4. Clearly in Mark 7 we SEE where the MAGESTERIUM of the ONE TRUE church started by God at Sinai were easily lead into error regarding their church tradition CLAIMED to be on par with scripture itself!

Same problem that we have today as it turns out

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Since I am in Christ, by the Grace of God…​

​

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]I have been justified—completely forgiven and made righteous (Rom. 5:1).
I died with Christ and died to the power of sin’s rule over my life (Rom. 6:1-6).
I am free forever from condemnation (Rom. 8:1).
I have been placed into Christ by God’s doing (1 Cor. 1:30).
I have received the Spirit of God into my life that I might know the things freely given to me by God (1 Cor. 2:12).
I have been given the mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2:16).
I have been bought with a price; I am not my own; I belong to God (1 Cor. 6:19,20)
I have been established, anointed and sealed by God in Christ, and I have been given the Holy Spirit as a pledge guaranteeing my inheritance to come (2 Cor. 1:21; Eph. 1:13,14).
Since I have died, I no longer live for myself, but for Christ (2 Cor. 5:14,15).
I have been made righteous (2 Cor. 5:21).
I have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. The life I am now living is Christ’s life (Gal. 2:20).
I have been blessed with every spiritual blessing (Eph 1:3).
I was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and am without blame before Him (Eph. 1:4).
I was predestined—determined by God—to be adopted as God’s son (Eph. 1:5).
I have been redeemed and forgiven, and I am a recipient of His lavish grace. (Eph. 1:7).
I have been made alive together with Christ (Eph. 2:5).
I have been raised up and seated with Christ in Heaven (Eph. 2:6).
I have direct access to God through the Spirit (Eph. 2:18).
I may approach God with boldness, freedom and confidence (Eph.3:12).
Christ Himself is in me (Col. 1:27).
I am firmly rooted in Christ and am now being built in Him (Col. 2:7).
I have been spiritually circumcised. My old unregenerate nature has been removed (Col. 2:11).
I have been made complete in Christ (Col. 2:10).
I have been buried, raised and made alive with Christ (Col. 2:12,13).
I died with Christ and I have been raised up with Christ. My life is now hidden with Christ in God. Christ is now my life (Col.3:1-4).
I have been given the spirit of power, love and a sound mind (2 Tim. 1:7).
I have been saved and set apart according to God’s doing (2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 3:5).
Because I am sanctified and am one with the Sanctifier, He is not ashamed to call me Brother (Heb. 2:11).
I have the right to come boldly before the throne of God to find mercy and grace in time of need (Heb. 4:16).
I have been given exceedingly great and precious promises by God by which I am a partaker of God’s divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4).
I have been rescued from the domain of satan’s rule and transferred to the kingdom of Christ (Col. 1:13).
I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins. The debt against me has been cancelled (Col. 1:14).

GE
It would have made a difference if everytime you both before and after have said, "IN CHRIST!" One is prone to forget the heading. Nevertheless, Amen!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR
"If your argument is that "there exists some good tradition" then you are correct. However KNOWING what is correct tradition can only be via the "sola scriptura" process of judging ALL faith and practice against scripture."

GE
"From us" are the key-words.