Scripture - given to the world or the Church?

[Martin Marprelate]

I agree. But we also need to make a distinction between the gospel and Scripture as a whole.

What exactly is that distinction? Can one preach the Gospel with no reference to Scripture?

'Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus' (Colossians 1:28). Can we really preach Christ 'in all wisdom' without using Scripture?

'And that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation' (2 Timothy 3:15). If the Scriptures were able to make Timothy wise unto salvation, what right do we have to withhold them from anyone unless we have been up to heaven, had a look at the Book of Life, and found his name missing from it?

'For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword.......' (Hebrews 4:12). With such a mighty weapon at our disposal, how dare we not use it in our preaching to unbelievers?

'For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty, in God, for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and......bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ' (2 Corinthians 10:4-5). I don't believe we should limit these verses to the disciplining of errant Christians. We must use the Scriptures to convince unbelievers, whether atheists or J.W.s.

The Lord Jesus tells us that we are to find Him in all parts of Scripture (John 5:39; Luke 24:7). If we can find Him in all parts of the Scripture, we can preach Him from all parts of Scripture. In a few weeks time, I shall be preaching three sermons on the Gospel from Ezekiel, most certainly for the edification of the saints, but also aiming it squarely at the unbelievers in our congregation.

This thread strikes me as nothing other than (notso) good, old-fashioned Hyper-calvinism. The Scriptures are given to the Church, but for the Church to preach to the world. "Go into the world and preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15).

 

[JonC]

What exactly is that distinction? Can one preach the Gospel with no reference to Scripture?

'Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus' (Colossians 1:28). Can we really preach Christ 'in all wisdom' without using Scripture?

'And that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation' (2 Timothy 3:15). If the Scriptures were able to make Timothy wise unto salvation, what right do we have to withhold them from anyone unless we have been up to heaven, had a look at the Book of Life, and found his name missing from it?

'For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword.......' (Hebrews 4:12). With such a mighty weapon at our disposal, how dare we not use it in our preaching to unbelievers?

'For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty, in God, for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and......bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ' (2 Corinthians 10:4-5). I don't believe we should limit these verses to the disciplining of errant Christians. We must use the Scriptures to convince unbelievers, whether atheists or J.W.s.

The Lord Jesus tells us that we are to find Him in all parts of Scripture (John 5:39; Luke 24:7). If we can find Him in all parts of the Scripture, we can preach Him from all parts of Scripture. In a few weeks time, I shall be preaching three sermons on the Gospel from Ezekiel, most certainly for the edification of the saints, but also aiming it squarely at the unbelievers in our congregation.

This thread strikes me as nothing other than (notso) good, old-fashioned Hyper-calvinism. The Scriptures are given to the Church, but for the Church to preach to the world. "Go into the world and preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15).

The difference between the gospel and Scripture is that Scripture is a record of God's redemptive history - from the prophets to Christ, including the gospel message, the early church, the acts of the Apostles, the history of Israel, ect.

One does not have to teach the Song of Soloman to present a complete gospel message.

The Gospel is the news that the kingdom has cone, redemption is here.

One can know the gospel by reading John. One will not know Scripture as a whole by reading John.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The difference between the gospel and Scripture is that Scripture is a record of God's redemptive history - from the prophets to Christ, including the gospel message, the early church, the acts of the Apostles, the history of Israel, ect.

One does not have to teach the Song of Soloman to present a complete gospel message.

The Gospel is the news that the kingdom has cone, redemption is here.

One can know the gospel by reading John. One will not know Scripture as a whole by reading John.

Heaven help us! Endless sermons on John 3:16. It is perfectly possible to preach the Gospel from the Song of Solomon, or from the historical O.T. books.

 

[kyredneck]

Endless sermons on John 3:16.

Yea, I grew up in a SB church that did just that...Sunday morning, Sunday evening, Wednesday evenings…..

 

[JonC]

Heaven help us! Endless sermons on John 3:16. It is perfectly possible to preach the Gospel from the Song of Solomon, or from the historical O.T. books.

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who are being saved.

I hope and pray those who are saved will never move or tire of this gospel, but at the same time I hope they will study Scripture in addition to the gospel message.

If you need to evangelize your church (to teach them the gospel message) then there is a problem with your church.

If you believe you should witness to people by preaching to them from the Song of Solomon then there is a problem with your evangelism.

Scripture belongs to the church (to Christians) not to the world.

The gospel is witnessed by the church to the world.

These are important distinctions.

 

[alexander284]

The big three. I weed them out now and then in my Bible pasture -- my personal library shelf.

But I wink at them and they keep growing.

I have to be more discerning, more vigilant, stronger in my faith and works.

Please forgive me, but I'm not quite sure I understand your meaning in this post.

And I don't want to assume that I understand. Perhaps you'd be willing to elaborate?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If you need to evangelize your church (to teach them the gospel message) then there is a problem with your church.

The church of which I am a leader is a real church; it is a not a tidy group of believers coming together for edification, all at the same stage of development. Some people know their Bible from A to Z, some know it from A to B; all of them need application, but they tend to need different areas of application. We have saved wives and unsaved husbands and vice versa. We have people impacted by our door-to-door work who are convicted but not yet saved. We have people who think they're saved but aren't. We have people who like church and have been coming for years, but who let the Gospel go in one ear and out the other unless and until the Spirit convicts them. And all this in quite a small church!

So what do we do? What we're supposed to do. 'Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and teaching.' We have the same sermon for the saved and the unsaved, and look to the Holy Spirit to apply it to each heart. For seekers, we also run Christianity Explored, and that has been very fruitful in bringing people to Christ, but it is really nothing else but an exposition of Mark's Gospel with an emphasis on conversion. For believers, we have interactive Bible Studies

Scripture is given by God to the Church, but it is for the Church to preach to the world.

 

[JonC]

The church of which I am a leader is a real church; it is a not a tidy group of believers coming together for edification, all at the same stage of development. Some people know their Bible from A to Z, some know it from A to B; all of them need application, but they tend to need different areas of application. We have saved wives and unsaved husbands and vice versa. We have people impacted by our door-to-door work who are convicted but not yet saved. We have people who think they're saved but aren't. We have people who like church and have been coming for years, but who let the Gospel go in one ear and out the other unless and until the Spirit convicts them. And all this in quite a small church!

So what do we do? What we're supposed to do. 'Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and teaching.' We have the same sermon for the saved and the unsaved, and look to the Holy Spirit to apply it to each heart. For seekers, we also run Christianity Explored, and that has been very fruitful in bringing people to Christ, but it is really nothing else but an exposition of Mark's Gospel with an emphasis on conversion. For believers, we have interactive Bible Studies

Scripture is given by God to the Church, but it is for the Church to preach to the world.

The church that I am a part of is also a real church. The Word of God is preached for the equipping of the saints, to edify the saints, to build up the saints, and to prepare the saints for the works that God has prepared in advance for them to do. And the church goes out into the world to do that work.

But the church itself is not a “hospital for sinners”. The church is a gathering of Christians. It is a congregation of those who are saved. Scripture tells us that those who believed were baptized and were added to the church.

What we do (in my church) is preach Scripture for the equipping of the church (we treat the congregation as if all in the assembly are the church). But the pastor also always includes evangelism in his sermon because there are always a chance the lost are among us.

I am not implying that your church is not a “real church”. But I am suggesting that constantly having to evangelize the “saved” may point to a serious issue within any congregation.

 

[37818]

Without question the New Testament is the sole Apostolic authority we have today given to the churches, Ephesians 2:20.

But the Apostle John's gospel account was written so others, the world, can believe, John 20:31, ". . . But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. . . ."

 

[JonC]

Without question the New Testament is the sole Apostolic authority we have today given to the churches, Ephesians 2:20.

But the Apostle John's gospel account was written so others, the world, can believe, John 20:31, ". . . But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. . . ."

I agree.

The gospel (the message, the "good news") that Christ preached is that salvation is here, the Kingdom has arrived. The gospel is that Promise to which OT Scriptures looked to in faith. It is the truth that the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) testify. It is this gospel that Acts records being spread by and through the formation of the Church. It is for this gospel that the epistles were written to the churches.

But if one believes that Scripture (the whole of Scripture) is the gospel itself then one has missed the gospel.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The church that I am a part of is also a real church. The Word of God is preached for the equipping of the saints, to edify the saints, to build up the saints, and to prepare the saints for the works that God has prepared in advance for them to do. And the church goes out into the world to do that work.

But the church itself is not a “hospital for sinners”. The church is a gathering of Christians. It is a congregation of those who are saved. Scripture tells us that those who believed were baptized and were added to the church.

What we do (in my church) is preach Scripture for the equipping of the church (we treat the congregation as if all in the assembly are the church). But the pastor also always includes evangelism in his sermon because there are always a chance the lost are among us.

I am not implying that your church is not a “real church”. But I am suggesting that constantly having to evangelize the “saved” may point to a serious issue within any congregation.

I think we are actually in agreement on this point.
A church is indeed a gathering of Christians, but actual congregations are more messy than that. To give an example, I posted about a year ago that someone had been wonderfully converted at our church. The man in question has a wife, and at first she was a bit taken aback and suspicious about what had happened to her husband. But after a little while she began to come to the church, heard the preaching and has now been soundly converted. She received the regular preaching of the word that everyone else received, and the Holy Spirit used it for her salvation.

I am also a member of what used to be called the Gideons in the UK (we're in the process of a name change). We place or give out thousands of Bibles and N.T.s and God does not allow His word to return to Him void. There is a steady flow of conversions.

The word is given by God to the Church to give to the world.