Scriptures Regarding the Pre Great Tribulation Rapture

[37818]

I believe that 1 Thessalonians 4:15 is conditional based on the exhortation at the beginning of the chapter because if any brethren despise God by living in unrepentant sinful living, God will deny them that verse 15. 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8

That would apply to the dead N.T. saints if they had died unrepentant for living in sin. So that exhortation that applies to brethren abiding in Him, that event in verse 15 is for them and those that have passed on that were abiding in Him unto death.

BUT in relation to our topic, they were meeting the Lord in the clouds when He descend with a shout. He is not on earth which is the event in Revelation 20:4-6 after dealing with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem in Revelation 19:11-21.

Too many points. So it is not making sense to me. Your argument is some place else.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8,
Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

It would seem our disagreement is over some conditional that I know nothing about.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Too many points. So it is not making sense to me. Your argument is some place else.

Leaving your reference out of quote.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8,
Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

It would seem our disagreement is over some conditional that I know nothing about.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

* Reprobate means disqualified and in application, disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

Any work of iniquity that denies Him which can be also seen as despising God is why the Lord will deny them.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Same goes for a former believer that would verbally deny him for why He will deny him but nevertheless He still abides in those former believers left behind even after having denied them.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

That is why that exhortation "that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;" in Thessalonians 4 is conditional to be raptured as every one that is saved is required to depart from iniquity with His help or risk being "damned" as that vessel unto dishonor for not departing from iniquity..

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

[ChristB4Us]

How do you understand 1 Thessalonians 4:15? For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

ου μη ? φθασωμεν ?

Hopefully with the Lord's help, I shall try again, but in context.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

See how those raptured and those resurrected are meeting the Lord in the clouds?

But when Jesus comes back with the saints, His feet is touching down on the Mount of Olives in Zechariah 14:1-5 as He does battle with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem ON EARTH per Revelation 19:11-21.

Then Satan is in the pit for a thousand years per Revelation 20:1-3

Then we have that resurrection at the end of the great tribulation in Revelation 20:4-6 when Jesus is ALREADY on earth. Jesus is not meeting those saints in the air when He is already on earth after defeating the world's armies with the pre great tribulation raptured saints..

 

[37818]

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The mere fact you cite Matthew 7:21-23 brings us to issues of being an actual Christian knowing God and the religious and lost who do not. Galatians ,5:19-21,
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[ChristB4Us]

The mere fact you cite Matthew 7:21-23 brings us to issues of being an actual Christian knowing God and the religious and lost who do not. Galatians ,5:19-21,
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

What about how Jesus Christ is still abiding in former believers that would verbally deny Him for why He would deny them and leave them behind?

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

That is why that exhortation "that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;" in Thessalonians 4 is conditional to be raptured as every one that is saved is required to depart from iniquity with His help or risk being "damned" as that vessel unto dishonor for not departing from iniquity..

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

[37818]

What about how Jesus Christ is still abiding in former believers that would verbally deny Him for why He would deny them and leave them behind?

This question does not make sense to me?
2 John 1:9, Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
And 1 John 2:19, They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

That is why that exhortation "that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;" in Thessalonians 4 is conditional to be raptured as every one that is saved is required to depart from iniquity with His help or risk being "damned" as that vessel unto dishonor for not departing from iniquity..

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Additional issues.

It would seem we have multiple issues of different understandings.

 

[ChristB4Us]

This question does not make sense to me?

2 John 1:9, Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
And 1 John 2:19, They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

There is a fold of sheep that follows His voice and not a stranger's voice per John 10:1-5 Yet in John 10:14-16 where verse 16 deviates from the sheepfold that follows His voice to the sheepfold that went stray by following the stranger's voice as He claimed that He MUST bring them as they are still His sheep as they will be made to be of the one fold and one shepherd.

Apply that to saved believers that believe tongues are for private use as gained by that apostate calling of seeking that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues started at Azusa Street Revival in 1906-1909 which Jesus rebuked in Matthew 12:38-40 for doing as an adulterous generation. Following tongues for private use is the epitome of following a stranger's voice.

When you compare Matthew 18:10-14 with John 6:39-40 of how He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him, then in regards to the lost sheep left behind, that utter the depths of Satan for which they speak Revelation 2:18-25, He will get them.

This even mirrors the harvest ( the wheat as the 99 sheep ) is gathered into the barn and the tares are left behind to be burned per Matthew 13:27-30 but look at verse 13 of that day of fire of what the fire will do in vs 15 in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 even though their physical bodies be destroyed, hence physical death per verses 16-17.

Additional issues.

Well, it really isn't. You referenced 2 John 1:9 & 1 John 2:19 regarding abiding in Him from those that are not and so that is why I referred to 2 Timothy 2:10-13 on how a former believer will deny Him for why He will deny him in vs 12 and yet this is also part of the faithful saying from vs 11 that if we believe not, He is faithful for He cannot deny Himself in 2 Timothy 2:13.

That means those He denied for being workers of iniquity and thus reprobates, as disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven, He still abides in those left behind.

Paul gave an example of a former believer in 2 Timothy 2:18 for how their faith was overthrown, but "nevertheless" that foundation is sure as that seal is also for why we are to call former believers as well as saved believers living in unrepentant sins to depart from iniquity with His help or risk being left behind to be damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House in 2 Timothy 2:19-21.

t would seem we have multiple issues of different understandings.

The problem here is you are not seeing why Jesus is warning believers in Luke 12:40-49 to be ready just as you are not seeing why Jesus is warning the 5 churches to repent or else or exhorting the 2 churches to hold fast or else in Revelation and that God is going to judge His House first at the rapture event for why many saved believers found not abiding in Him, will be left behind before He judges the world Luke 17:26-33 as Peter warned also for why we are to endure to the end 2 Peter 3:3-15.

 

[ChristB4Us]

This question does not make sense to me?

2 John 1:9, Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
And 1 John 2:19, They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Again in simplicity, the pre great tribulation rapture event is when God will judge His House first for when the ones abiding in Him as His disciples will be taken per your references.

Look at your reference in context; as the exhortation to abide is to receive their full reward.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

What is John emphasizing here? Those who confess where that Spirit of Christ is at presently ( which is what "is come" means ) as not in the flesh ( as in our physical bodies ) but in the worship place. John gave that warning in an earlier epistle.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: **** Same thing as saying 2 Corinthians 13:5

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So those astray are promoting focusing on the "Holy Spirit" in worship as if He visits the worship place with signs and wonders which the indwelling Holy Spirit would never do that but continue to point believers to the Bridegroom in worship.

Note 1 John 4:3 in comparing to your reference of 2 John 1:9 for how they have not God as it refers to abiding in Him by abiding in the doctrine of Christ.

That supernatural tongue gained by that apostate calling of seeking the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues is pointing saved believers to the Holy Spirit "instead of Christ" which the definition of the antichrist applies to and that is why that supernatural tongue is just gibberish nonsense as found in the occult per Isaiah 8:19 and not the real God's gift of tongues which is for God to speak unto the people in their native tongue per 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 & was never to serve as a sign for promoting anyone to seek after that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues per 1 Corinthians 14:22

The pagan supernatural tongue of gibberish nonsense can be found in the occult, Romans idolatry, and other religions of the world and I suspect will be the universal sign of uniting all the religions and the occult in the word in that one world church that is coming in the great tribulation and so in no way will God ever mimic the devil's tongue that existed before Pentecost.

1 John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Any believer that now see the truth in His words, and the world around them, thanks to Jesus Christ, can go to Him now to shun that tongue and chase no more after the Holy Spirit when He is in us since salvation and seek the face of His Son, the Bridegroom, in worship, for He will be coming soon.

 

[37818]

2 John 1:9, Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
And 1 John 2:19, They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

There is a fold of sheep that follows His voice and not a stranger's voice per John 10:1-5 Yet in John 10:14-16 where verse 16 deviates from the sheepfold that follows His voice to the sheepfold that went stray by following the stranger's voice as He claimed that He MUST bring them as they are still His sheep as they will be made to be of the one fold and one shepherd.

Apply that to saved believers that believe tongues are for private use as gained by that apostate calling of seeking that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues started at Azusa Street Revival in 1906-1909 which Jesus rebuked in Matthew 12:38-40 for doing as an adulterous generation. Following tongues for private use is the epitome of following a stranger's voice.

When you compare Matthew 18:10-14 with John 6:39-40 of how He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him, then in regards to the lost sheep left behind, that utter the depths of Satan for which they speak Revelation 2:18-25, He will get them.

This even mirrors the harvest ( the wheat as the 99 sheep ) is gathered into the barn and the tares are left behind to be burned per Matthew 13:27-30 but look at verse 13 of that day of fire of what the fire will do in vs 15 in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 even though their physical bodies be destroyed, hence physical death per verses 16-17.



Well, it really isn't. You referenced 2 John 1:9 & 1 John 2:19 regarding abiding in Him from those that are not and so that is why I referred to 2 Timothy 2:10-13 on how a former believer will deny Him for why He will deny him in vs 12 and yet this is also part of the faithful saying from vs 11 that if we believe not, He is faithful for He cannot deny Himself in 2 Timothy 2:13.

That means those He denied for being workers of iniquity and thus reprobates, as disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven, He still abides in those left behind.

Paul gave an example of a former believer in 2 Timothy 2:18 for how their faith was overthrown, but "nevertheless" that foundation is sure as that seal is also for why we are to call former believers as well as saved believers living in unrepentant sins to depart from iniquity with His help or risk being left behind to be damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House in 2 Timothy 2:19-21.



The problem here is you are not seeing why Jesus is warning believers in Luke 12:40-49 to be ready just as you are not seeing why Jesus is warning the 5 churches to repent or else or exhorting the 2 churches to hold fast or else in Revelation and that God is going to judge His House first at the rapture event for why many saved believers found not abiding in Him, will be left behind before He judges the world Luke 17:26-33 as Peter warned also for why we are to endure to the end 2 Peter 3:3-15.

Yes, we disagree on points of interpretation. Much of which is not relevant to the rapture issue.

 

[37818]

Again in simplicity, the pre great tribulation rapture event is when God will judge His House first for when the ones abiding in Him as His disciples will be taken per your references.

Look at your reference in context; as the exhortation to abide is to receive their full reward.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

What is John emphasizing here? Those who confess where that Spirit of Christ is at presently ( which is what "is come" means ) as not in the flesh ( as in our physical bodies ) but in the worship place. John gave that warning in an earlier epistle.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: **** Same thing as saying 2 Corinthians 13:5

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So those astray are promoting focusing on the "Holy Spirit" in worship as if He visits the worship place with signs and wonders which the indwelling Holy Spirit would never do that but continue to point believers to the Bridegroom in worship.

Note 1 John 4:3 in comparing to your reference of 2 John 1:9 for how they have not God as it refers to abiding in Him by abiding in the doctrine of Christ.

That supernatural tongue gained by that apostate calling of seeking the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues is pointing saved believers to the Holy Spirit "instead of Christ" which the definition of the antichrist applies to and that is why that supernatural tongue is just gibberish nonsense as found in the occult per Isaiah 8:19 and not the real God's gift of tongues which is for God to speak unto the people in their native tongue per 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 & was never to serve as a sign for promoting anyone to seek after that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues per 1 Corinthians 14:22

The pagan supernatural tongue of gibberish nonsense can be found in the occult, Romans idolatry, and other religions of the world and I suspect will be the universal sign of uniting all the religions and the occult in the word in that one world church that is coming in the great tribulation and so in no way will God ever mimic the devil's tongue that existed before Pentecost.

1 John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Any believer that now see the truth in His words, and the world around them, thanks to Jesus Christ, can go to Him now to shun that tongue and chase no more after the Holy Spirit when He is in us since salvation and seek the face of His Son, the Bridegroom, in worship, for He will be coming soon.

Your arguments have zero pre trib rapture Scripture.

The actual rapture text is 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and is explicitly post resurrection.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Yes, we disagree on points of interpretation. Much of which is not relevant to the rapture issue.

It is relevant because that is why God is judging His House at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

Jesus warned the church in Thyatira in the Op to repent or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation and be judged by their works with death in Revelation 2:18-25.

Jesus exhorted the church in Philadelphia to hold fast in keeping the word of His patience to be kept from the hour of temptation that shall try all remaining on the earth; hence not be on earth for when that hour of temptation comes in Revelation 3:7-11 but if they do not hold fast nor keep the word of His patience, then guess what? They are left behind and their crown is taken.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Your arguments have zero pre trib rapture Scripture.

The actual rapture text is 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and is explicitly post resurrection.

Explain your use of the term post resurrection.

Are you referring to the rapture occurring after the great tribulation or what?

If so, you are ignoring the white elephant in the room when after the great tribulation is when Jesus is already on earth and therefore not descending from Heaven with a shout for those resurrected after the great tribulation as they are not meeting Him in the clouds.

 

[percho]

Acts 20:24,25 KJV But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Acts 17:1-3 KJV Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
V 7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.

First Thessalonians is a letter answering questions from a received letter.

What did they have a question concerning? Well is appears Larry, Curly and Mo who had accepted Christ when Paul was there those three sabbaths had died. That is they were asleep in Jesus or put another way they were dead in Christ. Makes me think of Lazarus;
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Larry, Curly and Mo were dead and their friends and brothers in the Lord wanted to know how Larry, Curly and Mo who had died were going to be in the kingdom of God that Paul had preached unto them.

What is Jesus the Lord coming in the air to establish and how are Larry, Curly and Mo going to be therein. Will Larry, Curly and Mo reign with Christ? Would the following verse apply to them as id did to the apostles?

Matt 19:28 KJV And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

I moved a comer BTW and if you ask why, here's why. ? have followed me in the regeneration?

1 Cor 15:20-23 YLT And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruit of those sleeping he became, for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again of the dead, for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, [regenerated?] and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, [ ?made alive regenerated?] afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence, = Larry, Curly and Mo and the apostles to rule with him in the kingdom of his glory.

 

[MrW]

Please read Matthew 24 and Mark 13:

" Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." ( Matthew 24:29-31 ).


" But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." ( Mark 13:24-27 ).

When is His second coming?
My friend, it's answered in the above.

May God bless you.

That above is the Second Coming, to initiate the Millennial Reign.

It is not what is called the Rapture, the Translation of the Saints.

 

[MrW]

Christ does not indwell those He never knew, in Matthew 7:23.

 

[ChristB4Us]

What is Jesus the Lord coming in the air to establish and how are Larry, Curly and Mo going to be therein. Will Larry, Curly and Mo reign with Christ? Would the following verse apply to them as id did to the apostles?

Matt 19:28 KJV And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So the corpse may be sleeping but the spirit is aware of the afterlife in according to Jesus in His account of the rich man in hell and the beggar Lazarus in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise in Luke 16:19-31

King Saul had sinned against the Lord by consulting with a medium to raise up the spirit of Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:1-25.

When Jesus said the thief will be with Him in Paradise that day, He meant it so there s an awareness in the afterlife. Luke 23:42-43

I moved a comer BTW and if you ask why, here's why. ? have followed me in the regeneration?
1 Cor 15:20-23 YLT And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruit of those sleeping he became, for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again of the dead, for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, [regenerated?] and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, [ ?made alive regenerated?] afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence, = Larry, Curly and Mo and the apostles to rule with him in the kingdom of his glory.

I would emphasized using the KJV since the truth in His words is bieng obscured in the YLT.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There is no point for every man in his own order, unless there is a pre great tribulation rapture event which is separate from the resurrection after the great tribulation when Jesus is already on earth and thus not meeting them in the air as they that be Christ's at His coming And if you note, Christ the firstfruits is plural, not singular & so not only referring to Christ Himself.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Christ does not indwell those He never knew, in Matthew 7:23.

Then explain this from this faithful saying for why we are still to call former believers and not just unrepentant saved believers to depart from iniquity with His help so they too can be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House.;

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Paul goes on to give an example of a former believer and yet "nevertheless..."

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So there is such a thing as a vessel unto dishonor in His House, the vessels of wood and earth, those resurrected after the great tribulation for not looking to Jesus Christ daily to resists sin and to be ready & willing to go when the Bridegroom comes.

He abides still in those He denied that verbally deny Him or by works, they deny Him as that is why He is denying them.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. < --- reprobate means disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

What the church fail to do in excommunicating the unrepentant saved believer living in sin or engaging in works of iniquity, be it religious work or supernatural phenomenon that denies Him, He will deny them at the rapture, but He will burn off of that foundation all that offends and defiles that temple of God as He will finish His work even in those left behind.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

So in that day of fire, he will be denied by Him and left behind to die on earth, but he is still saved per verse 15. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House and why He is warning believers to be ready or else.

 

[MrW]

He did not say, “You’re Mine, but you denied Me, so I deny you , but you’re still Mine.”

He said, “Depart from Me, you workers on iniquity. I NEVER knew you.”

That is crystal clear. They were never saved, and never would be.

 

[MrW]

He did not say, “You’re Mine, but you denied Me, so I deny you , but you’re still Mine.”

He said, “Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity. I NEVER knew you.”

That is crystal clear. They were never saved, and never would be.

Saddest words in Scripture, not the hopeful words you think them to be.

 

[percho]

Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So the corpse may be sleeping but the spirit is aware of the afterlife in according to Jesus in His account of the rich man in hell and the beggar Lazarus in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise in Luke 16:19-31

King Saul had sinned against the Lord by consulting with a medium to raise up the spirit of Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:1-25.

When Jesus said the thief will be with Him in Paradise that day, He meant it so there s an awareness in the afterlife. Luke 23:42-43



I would emphasized using the KJV since the truth in His words is bieng obscured in the YLT.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There is no point for every man in his own order, unless there is a pre great tribulation rapture event which is separate from the resurrection after the great tribulation when Jesus is already on earth and thus not meeting them in the air as they that be Christ's at His coming And if you note, Christ the firstfruits is plural, not singular & so not only referring to Christ Himself.

From 1 Cor 15:20 Blue Letter Bible

Inflected: ἀπαρχὴ
Root: ἀπαρχή

Strong's: G536
English: the firstfruits
Code: N-NSF
Long: Noun - Nominative Singular Feminine
Speech: Noun
Case: Nominative
Number: Singular
Gender: Feminine


Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

These named people are dead. These named people will be made alive by resurrection outof the dead. That is what that verse says.

When David wrote as a prophet Thou will not leave my soul in Sheol/ Greek Hades, Peter states fifty days after the resurrection of Christ that the soul David was writing about the soul of Christ was not left in Hades. Peter states the once living soul David is still dead and buried. The soul of Christ was resurrected out of Hades in flesh that had not seen corruption. V 31 Acts 2

To date Jesus of Nazareth is the only man or woman born of woman that has been raised out of the dead to die no more and no more to return to corruption. Rom 6:9 Acts 13:34

Christ the first-fruit of the order Those who are Christ's at his appearing and the rest of the dead one thousand years later.

IMHO the thief on the cross will fall in that last order and I say that because he will be with Christ in paradise where the tree of life is in the midst thereof.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Luke 23:42,43 YLT and he said to Jesus, 'Remember me, lord, when thou mayest come in thy reign;' and Jesus said to him, 'Verily I say to thee To-day, with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'

BTW I again moved the comer relative to the fact of the matter.

Just as the order is stated. Christ, those who are his at his appearing, the reign of Christ then the last enemy put under his feet, death. Resurrection made alive with judgement. With me thou shall be in the paradise.