SDA and the heresy on hell

[BobRyan]

This might be helpful to some: How to Leave the Seventh Day Adventist Church - Leaving SDA

It's a support site for those who wish to leave SDA.

There are plenty of "ex-you-name-it-denomination" Christians in the SDA church and I know a few of them. But I don't quote them to argue against SBA or PCA ... why? Because it proves nothing. The only point of substance is made 'sola scriptura' -- and we all know it Why fear it??

As Christianity Today pointed out in 2015 - the SDA denomination is the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world and fastest growing (incidentally it is now over 25 million in attendance each Sabbath world wide.)

Interesting that so far you are not even remotely touching the "sola scriptura" discussion on hell.

how 'instructive'

Or do you want a thread on "SDA not a Cult according to Walter Martin"??

 

[thatbrian]

There are plenty of "ex-you-name-it-denomination" Christians in the SDA church and I know a few of them. But I don't quote them to argue against SBA or PCA ... why? Because it proves nothing. The only point of substance is made 'sola scriptura' -- and we all know it Why fear it??

As Christianity Today pointed out in 2015 - the SDA denomination is the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world and fastest growing (incidentally it is now over 25 million in attendance each Sabbath world wide.)

Interesting that so far you are not even remotely touching the "sola scriptura" discussion on hell.

how 'instructive'

The SDA isn't a Christian denomination, firstly. Some might argue that it's a sect, at best, but I again would agree with Hoekema's assessment of it.

Secondly, large numbers does not the truth make, for instance, Islam is growing rapidly too. . .

 

[thatbrian]

 

[thatbrian]

 

[BobRyan]

Anthony Hoekema said that the SDA is a cult and belongs grouped with JW's, Mormons, and Christian Science. I think he makes a valid argument.

Hoekema's argument was totally destroyed by Walter Martin's book "Kingdom of the Cults" where Martin placed the SDA Christian denomination in the appendix giving it a huge amount of space for discussion and totally annihilated Hoekema's shallow arguments addressing Hoekema's book specifically - explicitly.

Martin was no SDA at all - but he knew a bogus argument when he saw it. Martin pointed out that half the time Hoekema was not even using the SDA published statements of belief for his straw-man arguments!! How sad that anyone could be snookered by Hoekema.

The SDA isn't a Christian denomination, firstly. Some might argue that it's a sect, at best, but I again would agree with Hoekema's assessment of it.
.

So then "reading" is not your strong suit??

As Christianity Today pointed out in 2015 - the SDA denomination is the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world and fastest growing (incidentally it is now over 25 million in attendance each Sabbath world wide.)

Interesting that so far you are not even remotely touching the "sola scriptura" discussion on hell.

how 'instructive'

Or do you want a thread on "SDA not a Cult according to Walter Martin"??

fine - you now have a dedicated thread for your topic -- #1

 

[utilyan]

Rev 21 does not describe "pickle" -- Its focus is real heaven ... real New Jerusalem... real presence of God

Point of the post bob, is it doesn't matter WHAT YOU CALL IT, if it IS WHAT IT IS.


Hell = ETERNAL SEPARATION FROM GOD.


Do you believe in "ETERNAL SEPARATION FROM GOD" ? The answer is YES.

GAME OVER, THANKS FOR PLAYING!

Now if you want to make it a point that hell is not some place deep in the earth with a pitchfork devil poking you into some fire, fine, whatever.

Or how about hell is a place where your friend has his memory wiped and he is placed in religion directly opposed to your own so he is tricked into believing no matter what the other guy says he is evil and they themselves are good:

So the friend is trying to warn the other about how ABORTIONS are causing the murder of innocent people and how his religion's hospitals actually perform them, but since his friend's mind has been brain washed, he won't hear one lick of it because the foundation of his faith is based on the spirit of ACCUSATION.

He could make a small effort to investigate, but prefers the conformity besides MY religion can't possibly be evil after all it determines what is evil or not, he says to himself.

 

[robycop3]

Rev. 20: 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone whereb the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev. 14:11" And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Who do ya believe, Ellen Gould White, or GOD?

 

[thatbrian]

Rev. 20: 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone whereb the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev. 14:11" And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Who do ya believe, Ellen Gould White, or GOD?

As problematic the SDA view of Hell is, it's its "gospel" that condemns its adherents.

 

[BobRyan]

Rev. 20: 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone whereb the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev. 14:11" And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Who do ya believe, Ellen Gould White, or GOD?

28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

Matthew 10:28 "Fear Him who is able to DESTROY BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell".

So while the Lake of Fire does provide literal torment of literal fire and literal brimstone to literal lost souls in literal lake of fire -- that supernatural event will end with the "destruction of BOTH body AND soul".

Even Satan himself will "be no more" -- will be reduced to ashes.

Ezek 28
“You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 “You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The ruby, the topaz and the diamond;
The beryl, the onyx and the jasper;
The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald;
And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets,
Was in you.
On the day that you were created
They were prepared.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

Rev 20
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Exek 18:4 "the soul that sin - it shall die"

Ezek 28 - reduced to ashes

Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”



Until you read the actual Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

Matthew 10:28 "Fear Him who is able to DESTROY BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell".

So while the Lake of Fire does provide literal torment of literal fire and literal brimstone to literal lost souls in literal lake of fire -- that supernatural event will end with the "destruction of BOTH body AND soul".

Even Satan himself will "be no more" -- will be reduced to ashes.

Ezek 28
“You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 “You were in Eden, the garden of God;
...

Rev 20
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Exek 18:4 "the soul that sin - it shall die"

Ezek 28 - reduced to ashes

Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”



Until you read the actual Bible.

Point of the post bob, is it doesn't matter WHAT YOU CALL IT, if it IS WHAT IT IS.

Or how about hell is a place where your friend has his memory wiped and he is placed in religion directly opposed to your own

Pure fiction.

More Bible please --

Matthew 10:28 "Fear Him who is able to DESTROY BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell".

So while the Lake of Fire does provide literal torment of literal fire and literal brimstone to literal lost souls in literal lake of fire -- that supernatural event will end with the "destruction of BOTH body AND soul".

Even Satan himself will "be no more" -- will be reduced to ashes.

Ezek 28
“You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 “You were in Eden, the garden of God;
...

Rev 20
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Exek 18:4 "the soul that sin - it shall die"

Ezek 28 - reduced to ashes

Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’

 

[BobRyan]

The SDA isn't a Christian denomination, . . .

Yes it is - as even Walter Martin admits in his book 'Kingdom of the Cults"

 

[BobRyan]

I again would agree with Hoekema's assessment of it. . .

Walter Martin destroyed Hoekemas flawed shallow arguments based on half truths and Hoekema exposed as even going so far as to avoid the actual denominational statements on doctrine of the SDA church.

 

[Yeshua1]

1 Thess 4 says they were still asleep at the 2nd coming - and that the "hope" of the Christian is to "Comfort one another" with the fact that they will be resurrected at the 2nd coming.

Those were the dead in Christ, those who had died already..
At the Second Coming, the dead saints whose spirit was in heaven with jesus return to be resurrected in their glorified physical bodies now...

 

[BobRyan]

Those were the dead in Christ, those who had died already..
At the Second Coming, the dead saints whose spirit was in heaven with jesus return to be resurrected in their glorified physical bodies now...

I am not sure we differ on that point

Where we differ is in your rejection of the Bible statement that they are dormant

Here I will remind you again.

===========================================

read the actual Bible.

1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 Cor 15
50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable

John 11
11 After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.” 12 The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died,

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus will bring back with Himself all of the souls who died in Him,as they will be reunited with their risen bodies.....

 

[thatbrian]

Jesus will bring back with Himself all of the souls who died in Him,as they will be reunited with their risen bodies.....

Our physical resurrection is at the center of our faith. We will not be disembodied spirits but we will be remade and so will the Earth. Harps and clouds - nope. Fatted calf and the best wine. That's our future.

 

[BobRyan]

Our physical resurrection is at the center of our faith. We will not be disembodied spirits but we will be remade and so will the Earth. Harps and clouds - nope. Fatted calf and the best wine. That's our future.

True - the Bible does point to those details.

(I find it easier to agree with thatbrian when the post is not in the form of a "sola emotionalism" assault one some group or someone)

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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[Squire Robertsson]

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