SDA or RCC a Greater Threat?

[saturneptune]

Given the totality of the SDA and RCC theology, which do you consider a greater threat to Christianity and the spread of the Gospel? Why do you consider this group you chose to be the greater threat?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Given the totality of the SDA and RCC theology, which do you consider a greater threat to Christianity and the spread of the Gospel? Why do you consider this group you chose to be the greater threat?

That is difficult and I am reluctant to say because I don't want to make this personal. I consider both groups to be partially orthodox, but I would have to add on the fringe of orthodoxy. I would have to say that I believe the RCC to be a greater threat to Biblical Christianity simply because they have many more non-Biblical doctrines. But you left out one system which I would include, and that would be 5-point Calvinism which I think is worse than either of the other two. I hate to say these things because I have some good friends in these groups, but this is what I believe.

I am braced for the response, but I pledge not to reply by attacking anyone personally, no matter what might be said to me.

 

[Wherever You Go]

Of the two, I would observe that the RCC has a much greater and more powerful establishment wordlwide, and evidently bigger pockets. I'm just curious, what made you choose only those two as threats? What about Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, etc.?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Of the two, I would observe that the RCC has a much greater and more powerful establishment wordlwide, and evidently bigger pockets. I'm just curious, what made you choose only those two as threats? What about Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, etc.?

That's a good question. Maybe he doesn't consider these two groups as "cultic" as the ones you mentioned. In other words, maybe he considers the SDA and RCC to be more dangerous because they do have some truth mixed with error. But maybe SN will answer, and we wont have to speculate.

 

[SolaSaint]

I would have to say the RCC mainly because they are dangerous in numbers compared to the SDA. Whoever said 5 point Calvinism,,,really. Maybe hyper Calvinism, unless you consider them the same. But this is derailing the OP. Let's stick to that post. Please make another post if you want to bash Calvinism.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I would have to say the RCC mainly because they are dangerous in numbers compared to the SDA. Whoever said 5 point Calvinism,,,really. Maybe hyper Calvinism, unless you consider them the same. But this is derailing the OP. Let's stick to that post. Please make another post if you want to bash Calvinism.

I said it... really.

So, I am bashing Calvinism, but you are not bashing the RCC. Guess the definition depends on who is using the word, huh?

 

[SolaSaint]

I said it... really.

So, I am bashing Calvinism, but you are not bashing the RCC. Guess the definition depends on who is using the word, huh?

Sure I'll bash the RCC, not afraid to. Can you not make the distinction between Calvinism and Hyper Calvinism?

 

[Wherever You Go]

I am one of those who believes both Calvinism and Arminianism. (even if I can't spell it late at night).

Two sides to the same coin. The "differential gearing of salvation". Wheels within wheels.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I am one of those who believes both Calvinism and Arminianism. (even if I can't spell it late at night).

Two sides to the same coin. The "differential gearing of salvation". Wheels within wheels.

A missionary Friend of my jokingly called himself a Calminianist! I personally can't see how one can combine the two but I understand that there is election and yet we are solely responsible for our actions. But he got mileage with that confession!

 

[saturneptune]

That's a good question. Maybe he doesn't consider these two groups as "cultic" as the ones you mentioned. In other words, maybe he considers the SDA and RCC to be more dangerous because they do have some truth mixed with error. But maybe SN will answer, and we wont have to speculate.

Yes, the reason I do not add JWs and Mormons is that I do not even consider them in the range of being Christian. The RCC and SDA are debatable. Another reason for those two, is the barrage of threads from the SDA and RCC as of late.

The reason I did not include Calvinism or Arminianism is I do not consider them a denomination, but a system of theology. The other reason is I am worn out arguing with others about the character of John Calvin.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Sure I'll bash the RCC, not afraid to. Can you not make the distinction between Calvinism and Hyper Calvinism?

Sure, and I hate both.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Yes, the reason I do not add JWs and Mormons is that I do not even consider them in the range of being Christian. The RCC and SDA are debatable. Another reason for those two, is the barrage of threads from the SDA and RCC as of late.

The reason I did not include Calvinism or Arminianism is I do not consider them a denomination, but a system of theology. The other reason is I am worn out arguing with others about the character of John Calvin.

I can understand that.

 

[BobRyan]

Given the totality of the SDA and RCC theology, which do you consider a greater threat to Christianity and the spread of the Gospel? Why do you consider this group you chose to be the greater threat?

I believe that I should be considered the greater "threat" than the RCC denomination because I am here posting and the entire RCC denomination is not.

Of course we do have some Catholic posters here - and they may wish to challenge me on that - pointing that they are here posting and the entire SDA denomination is not. I concede that they could wish to make that case, but since they have not done it yet - I will stake my claim first.

So for now - I vote that we should fear me most.:sleeping_2:

in Christ,

Bob

 

[kyredneck]

What is the SDA?

 

[BobRyan]

SDA - Seventh-day Adventist.

And I am beginning to think we are being under-feared. I was trying to find more reasons to fear us - and I found this.



========================================

A Growing Church

Seventh-day Adventist Churches literally circle the globe. Recent (2011) statistics show membership beyond 17.2 million worshipping in more than 141,000 congregations in 209 countries. (Note that the UN recognises 232 countries in the world!) On average over 2,889 people join the Adventist church each day with an annual global growth rate of 2.43%. The membership in the UK and Ireland is 33,878 (September 2012) with attendence being considerably higher than this.. (This was from a Brit web site so "of course" they would stick their own UK numbers in there as the last item)

​

A Caring Church

The Adventist Church also operates 173 hospitals, 348 clinics and dispensaries, medical centres, nursing homes, retirement centres, orphanages and children's homes, that in the year 2010 served almost 16 million people. In the UK you will find that many churches run feeding programmes and are engaged with their local communities in mentoring programmes, children's clubs and other activities.
​

A Teaching Church

In addition the Church runs a world-wide system of more than 7,800 schools with over 1,668,000 students from kindergarten to graduate professional schools. Educational institutions in the UK and Ireland include 1 college, 2 secondary schools and 7 primary schools. (Again with the Brit statistic at the end of this section. who do those guys think they are??)
​

A Serving Church

In response to Christ's invitation to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, Seventh-day Adventists try to help friends and neighbours in need irrespective of race, colour or religion. Internationally, the Adventist Development and Relief Agency (ADRA) helps victims of war, famine, floods, earthquakes, and other disasters. In addition, many Adventist congregations have community service facilities, from which volunteers help those in need close to home. In the year 2000, Adventists helped over 15 million men, women and children. An annual camp, sponsored by ADRA-UK, is held in North Wales for handicapped children.

==================================================================================================

Now that is a lot to fear.

Here I put the challenge to my Catholic brethren (and Sistren) -- what do they have to stack up against those numbers?

So again I say - fear me worst!:sleeping_2:

in Christ,

Bob

(I am going to change my signature to - "Banish the under-fear"
​

 

[WestminsterMan]

Given the totality of the SDA and RCC theology, which do you consider a greater threat to Christianity and the spread of the Gospel? Why do you consider this group you chose to be the greater threat?

Hmmm... The only problem with your premise is that it's totally flawed. Like it or not (and I'm sure you don't that's why you're here) the Catholic Church IS Christianity - the ORIGINAL Christianity all the way back to Jesus and the Apostles.

"And that's the way it is." WC

Ohhhhh yeaaaaa!

WM

 

[SovereignMercy]

That is difficult and I am reluctant to say because I don't want to make this personal. I consider both groups to be partially orthodox, but I would have to add on the fringe of orthodoxy. I would have to say that I believe the RCC to be a greater threat to Biblical Christianity simply because they have many more non-Biblical doctrines. But you left out one system which I would include, and that would be 5-point Calvinism which I think is worse than either of the other two. I hate to say these things because I have some good friends in these groups, but this is what I believe.

I am braced for the response, but I pledge not to reply by attacking anyone personally, no matter what might be said to me.

None of the above. The Jesus that saves His people from their sins says that He will build His church and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

 

[SovereignMercy]

SDA - Seventh-day Adventist.

And I am beginning to think we are being under-feared. I was trying to find more reasons to fear us - and I found this.



========================================

A Growing Church

Seventh-day Adventist Churches literally circle the globe. Recent (2011) statistics show membership beyond 17.2 million worshipping in more than 141,000 congregations in 209 countries. (Note that the UN recognises 232 countries in the world!) On average over 2,889 people join the Adventist church each day with an annual global growth rate of 2.43%. The membership in the UK and Ireland is 33,878 (September 2012) with attendence being considerably higher than this.. (This was from a Brit web site so "of course" they would stick their own UK numbers in there as the last item)

​

A Caring Church

The Adventist Church also operates 173 hospitals, 348 clinics and dispensaries, medical centres, nursing homes, retirement centres, orphanages and children's homes, that in the year 2010 served almost 16 million people. In the UK you will find that many churches run feeding programmes and are engaged with their local communities in mentoring programmes, children's clubs and other activities.
​

A Teaching Church

In addition the Church runs a world-wide system of more than 7,800 schools with over 1,668,000 students from kindergarten to graduate professional schools. Educational institutions in the UK and Ireland include 1 college, 2 secondary schools and 7 primary schools. (Again with the Brit statistic at the end of this section. who do those guys think they are??)
​

A Serving Church

In response to Christ's invitation to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, Seventh-day Adventists try to help friends and neighbours in need irrespective of race, colour or religion. Internationally, the Adventist Development and Relief Agency (ADRA) helps victims of war, famine, floods, earthquakes, and other disasters. In addition, many Adventist congregations have community service facilities, from which volunteers help those in need close to home. In the year 2000, Adventists helped over 15 million men, women and children. An annual camp, sponsored by ADRA-UK, is held in North Wales for handicapped children.

==================================================================================================

Now that is a lot to fear.

Here I put the challenge to my Catholic brethren (and Sistren) -- what do they have to stack up against those numbers?

So again I say - fear me worst!:sleeping_2:

in Christ,

Bob

(I am going to change my signature to - "Banish the under-fear"
​

Yes, all forms of works righteousness have been immensely popular since the fall. Even ones that have begun in the last 200 years based on false prophets and prophecy. But none of them, including the SDA, have been able to stop Jesus.

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

 

[BobRyan]

Hmmm... The only problem with your premise is that it's totally flawed. Like it or not (and I'm sure you don't that's why you're here) the Catholic Church IS Christianity - the ORIGINAL Christianity all the way back to Jesus and the Apostles.

"And that's the way it is." WC

Ohhhhh yeaaaaa!

WM

Nice one - but it has a couple of weaknesses.

1. Baptists have "John the Baptist" -- Who comes before "Peter the Catholic".

2. The term "John the baptist" is actually in the Bible. But "Peter the Catholic" is not.

So this "could be" viewed as a weakness in your argument for being feared the worst.

================

I think you have to go for another option to be feared the worst..

SovereignMercy has left you an opening - since having hospitals and schools now has baptist confirmation as a "a bad thing" -- so ... you may have something to contribute along those lines.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[mactx]

Neither is a threat to Christianity.
Both are man made religions, as are baptists and methodists, lutherans, JWs and LDS and and and.

I grew up in the Church of Christ. One thing they rammed through my head was that only their name was in the Bible. However they also taught me to READ, STUDY and learn from my Bible. Which is where they lost their hold on me. Because a lot of the stuff they taught as gospel, isn't even there. (No church buses and no "committees" to care for the widows and orphans to name just 2)
So I discovered they were NOT the only named church in the Bible. The church of God is in there too.

The church of pope whoever is not, neither is the church of John Calvin.

We do not have the church of Peter, or of Paul or Matthew or John.
These are all man made religions. How do we know this?
Because the rules of God have not changed but the rules of religions do.

God tells us straight up who our enemy is and who we are to fear, and the SDA and RCC are not on his list.