Secession Movement Explodes

[mont974x4]

It is worth repeating, if one does not like the concept of fifty states in a union, planes leave everyday.

The planes solve nothing and such statements are just silly and only show how little people really understand what is happening to our nation.

One of the reasons for the problem we now face is people who did not like their own country came here and then worked to make our country like theirs. It makes no sense, but that is exactly what has happened.

Leaving the US is not an option. Remaking the US to be like it was intended to be is the goal. When peaceful revolutions at the ballot box fail then we have two options. This is because we now see that the relationship between our states and the federal government is no longer in our best interest. Respectfully and peacefully secede is option one. Violent revolution is option two.

 

[OldRegular]

And your point is?

The Supreme Court is a branch of the federal government SET UP BY THE CONSTITUTION and vested with powers of the CONSTITUTION. It is the sole body with authority to INTERPRET THE CONSTITUTION and as such, its rulings determine the meaning of THE CONSTITUTION.

So if you don't like the idea of submitting to the authority of the CONSTITUTION, why don't you move to Mexico? You can have a government that hands the wealthiest 1% whatever it wants, by robbing the remainder of the population, starve the government to make it impossible to enforce the law, and live under the protection of whatever drug cartel you can pay to provide it for you. You won't have to worry about a federal government, or a state government for that matter, and as long as the cartel's thugs get your money, you're free. That's the kind of country you seem to want. Why not hit the trail today?

I would remind you that the Supreme Court is not infallible:Tthere was the Dred Scot decision and the Roe v Wade monstrosity! There is nothing in the Constitution that states a black man is only what? 3/5 human. There is nothing in the Constitution that gives a doctor and a woman the right to murder her child. There is nothing in the Constitution that forbids a sovereign state from withdrawing from the union.

 

[poncho]

It is worth repeating, if one does not like the concept of fifty states in a union, planes leave everyday.

It's not about the concept of not liking the idea of fifty states in a union SN. It's not about seceding from the United States or to become another separate nation.

It's about people being tired of the concentration of wealth and power into hands it never belonged in the first place. Our government and this country has been hijacked by a an internationalist banking and political elite that have no allegiance to America what so ever. None! Nada! Zip! ! Zilch! Zero!

What we have now is a small group of men or Oligarchs that have taken control of our government for their own benefit and their own benefit only! This is in no way shape or form legitimate authority.

You are a champion of constitutional government right? Can you honestly look at what we have at the controls of this government today and tell me with a straight face that you would choose not to opt of this mess and restore the government to the people to whom it rightfully belongs?

Let's not let these crackpots turn us away from what is really going on here by playing us one against the other like they always do. This isn't a revolt against the union of the fifty states at all. It's a revolt against the usurpation of that union and the rule of an illegitimate authority that has risen in it's place.

This isn't something new that has happened "just because Obama won this election" that's just stupid this has been brewing under the surface long before that moment ever came. This is about free people having the right to stand up and say to an wholly illegitimate system that "we're mad as hell and we aren't going to take it anymore".

 

[OldRegular]

The planes solve nothing and such statements are just silly and only show how little people really understand what is happening to our nation.

One of the reasons for the problem we now face is people who did not like their own country came here and then worked to make our country like theirs. It makes no sense, but that is exactly what has happened.

That is so true. It was not always so. there was a time when immigrants learned the language and assimilated into the culture. I believe the cause f this problem is the liberal/left. For some reason they wanted a multicultural society . Perhaps they realized it would be easier to manipulate these groups I don't know.

Leaving the US is not an option. Remaking the US to be like it was intended to be is the goal. When peaceful revolutions at the ballot box fail then we have two options. This is because we now see that the relationship between our states and the federal government is no longer in our best interest. Respectfully and peacefully secede is option one. Violent revolution is option two.

I still like my idea of all red counties leaving and let the blue enclaves have the national debt they reated!

 

[saturneptune]

The planes solve nothing and such statements are just silly and only show how little people really understand what is happening to our nation.

One of the reasons for the problem we now face is people who did not like their own country came here and then worked to make our country like theirs. It makes no sense, but that is exactly what has happened.

Leaving the US is not an option. Remaking the US to be like it was intended to be is the goal. When peaceful revolutions at the ballot box fail then we have two options. This is because we now see that the relationship between our states and the federal government is no longer in our best interest. Respectfully and peacefully secede is option one. Violent revolution is option two.

I understand this nation more than most. My entire life has been in the inner workings of government. Neither of your options is viable or Constititutional. Leaving the US is an option. There is nothing stopping you. If you cannot have the patience to effect change through the ballot box, petitions, or if you have the clout to do it, call a Constitutional Convention, then you are out of options.

 

[OldRegular]

Fact - the Constitution does not prohibit secession
Fact - the SCOTUS has ruled secession is not permitted
Fact - the SCOTUS can
......A) reverse it's ruling
......B) be overturned by Congress

I don't believe they ever overturned Dred Scot but it is no longer valid. I suppose if a state really wanted to secede they would just go. Of course that would create problems for those not on the border or coast!

 

[poncho]

I understand this nation more than most. My entire life has been in the inner workings of government. Neither of your options is viable or Constititutional. Leaving the US is an option. There is nothing stopping you. If you cannot have the patience to effect change through the ballot box, petitions, or if you have the clout to do it, call a Constitutional Convention, then you are out of options.

The republicans have been saying the same thing for sixty years now and the only change they've been able to effect so far has been for the worst. Why should we expect anything different? The ballot box is rigged, petitions are ignored and if you think you can trust the type of people we have in charge today to bring us anything but slavery to a global dictatorship out of a Con Con I have to question whether your age and experience has taught you anything at all about government my brother.

Evidently you got more faith in easily corruptible men than either I do now or the founders of our extinct republic ever had.

 

[Alcott]

And succession is a constitutional violation. It is not a state's right. The courts settled that issue in 1865.

The 10th Amendment indicates right of secession. And the issue was not settled in 1865, as the SC was dealing with the matter in 1869. And the simple fact is that the SC was not going to say, years after the war and with various states still occupied, that the "union" did not have the authority to pull states back in against their will. And obviously that can change. For 60+ years it was legal, by the courrt's precedent, for communities to outlaw the ownership of guns, contrary to the constitution. A few years ago that was turned aound, and right. But with all this said, a secessionist movement is not anything to take seriously for the present, and won't be for a generation or 2; and that is supposing the endeavor continues growing. But we just don't know. Judea was subject to Rome from 43 B.C. until a significant rebellion finally happened in A.D.66, and during all that time that was the #1 issue of the Jewish people, to be free of Roman rule. Legalities standing or not so, what is being discussed does not happen too easily.

 

[Jack Matthews]

The Federal Government established secession as illegal in several acts and bills following the Civil War, including the Texas v. White case. That, combined with court rulings, are legitimate interpretations of separation of powers. There are laws on the books which forbid secession, which have been ruled as constitutional. That's how these things become the law of the land. The constitution is an amendable document, and the settled law of the land is established by Supreme Court rulings on their constitutionality.

Those who are petitioning for secession are whiners who didn't get their way. Waaah, waaaah. They are also unpatriotic, disloyal and disobedient to the scriptural mandate to submit to the governing authorities because they were put in place by God. If you can't live with the law of the land, move.

 

[Havensdad]

The Federal Government established secession as illegal in several acts and bills following the Civil War, including the Texas v. White case. That, combined with court rulings, are legitimate interpretations of separation of powers. There are laws on the books which forbid secession, which have been ruled as constitutional. That's how these things become the law of the land. The constitution is an amendable document, and the settled law of the land is established by Supreme Court rulings on their constitutionality.

Those who are petitioning for secession are whiners who didn't get their way. Waaah, waaaah. They are also unpatriotic, disloyal and disobedient to the scriptural mandate to submit to the governing authorities because they were put in place by God. If you can't live with the law of the land, move.

The law of the land is the Constitution. The criminals in power are ignoring it. Thus, we have a scriptural mandate to do something about it. We are commanded to punish lawbreakers.

Secondly, the Constitution is not an "amendable" document, except through the process given in the Constitution for making amendments. The Supreme Court does NOT have the authority to reinterpret the Constitution. They don't. Disgusting rulings, such as Roe vs. Wade, are not legitimate. They are the result of tyrants IGNORING the clear command of the Constitution, that no person is to be deprived of life and liberty.

I suppose you would have supported Hitler, too? After all, he changed the law of the land, and then followed that law. Everything he did was legal. By the way, if the Constitution is "amendable" then I guess it can be amended to allow secession too, huh? Not that it forbids it, now...you do understand what "a government for the people, by the people" means, right? That we run the joint? So, if we want Texas to secede, then we can do that. That is how the system works.

You are an idiot, FYI. The Republicans didn't lose...the American people lost, a long time ago (around the time of FDR). God save us from socialists like yourself.

 

[saturneptune]

The republicans have been saying the same thing for sixty years now and the only change they've been able to effect so far has been for the worst. Why should we expect anything different? The ballot box is rigged, petitions are ignored and if you think you can trust the type of people we have in charge today to bring us anything but slavery to a global dictatorship out of a Con Con I have to question whether your age and experience has taught you anything at all about government my brother.

Evidently you got more faith in easily corruptible men than either I do now or the founders of our extinct republic ever had.

I did not know you personally knew the Founders. That is a cute trick. You will have to teach it to me. On the theory that the ballot box is rigged, which side is doing the rigging? In this case, it must have been the liberals, because they won. Who rigged the ballot box in 1968, 1972, 1980, 1984, 1988, 2000, and 2004? It must have been conservatives. So, in 1960, 1964, 1976, 1992, 1996, 2008, and 2012 we have ballot boxes rigged by liberals. So is your point that the riggng of elections is fair and balanced? There is someone behind the scenes who manipulates both liberal and conservative elections? One other point, would you please explain how someone skews an electoral college vote that meets in mid-December?

 

[righteousdude2]

California is already Wanting Big Changes

Id sure miss those great Texas BBQ's...but as for the rest.....please take California with you....PLEASE! :laugh:

There is a movement among the Assemblypersons in the southern part of California, to secede from the state and split it in half.

And get this....they want to end the boundry lines at LA County. all of us in the south are tired of the liberals in Hollywood and Frisco, not to mention the growing swell of support for gays.

Believe it or not. Those of us south of LA are very conservative. We are just out numbered. By splitting the state, we'd have a fait amount of electoral votes to give to the next Tea Party/Republicn candidate. Simly put: California would no longer be a slam dunk for the DNC.

It is a movement that has great possibility, so pray for it to come about. Think of it. a South Cali and a North Cali. I know those of us down south could sleep better at nights knowing we rid ourselves of the fruit, nuts and flakes! :laugh:

 

[saturneptune]

The planes solve nothing and such statements are just silly and only show how little people really understand what is happening to our nation.

One of the reasons for the problem we now face is people who did not like their own country came here and then worked to make our country like theirs. It makes no sense, but that is exactly what has happened.

Leaving the US is not an option. Remaking the US to be like it was intended to be is the goal. When peaceful revolutions at the ballot box fail then we have two options. This is because we now see that the relationship between our states and the federal government is no longer in our best interest. Respectfully and peacefully secede is option one. Violent revolution is option two.

So how have peaceful petitions and ballot boxes failed you? Do you feel the ballot box failed you in 1980, 1984, 2000, and 2004? Just because you did not get your way in the election in 2012, that does not mean the ballot box failed you. The American people might have failed us, but not the ballot box. Did the ballot box and petitions really fail us? Or did we fail the system by failing to do nothing but sits on our behinds for the last four years and allow two, pathetic, liberal nominees?

This is the truth of the whole situation from the vast number of people who are on this thread and elsewhere complaining about the outcome of the election and states leaving the union. The truth is that the posters did nothing, nada, not one thing, to effect change over the last four years or in their entire life. All they do is complain at election time. Then, when they reap what they have sown, they want to take their toys home and leave like third graders. They then shift blame from themselves to the Constititution, or argue the Constititution allows states to secede.

The 10th Amendment in no way allows states to secede. Neither does the rest of the Constititution.

Your leaders are a reflection of you. The point is, ballot boxes have failed you because you failed to do anything to effect political change except post, whine, and come up with ideas like states leaving the union that is not going to happen, except maybe for Texas, as is in the treaty of 1848. States are not going to leave the union, and the bottom line is, you are not leaving the United States. It is also a fact that everyone of you will sit on your fat pot luck posteriors for the next four years and do nothing.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Last time I looked the secession explosion was up to .002% of the population's digital signatures.

Has that exploded 100 fold to .2% yet?

 

[Havensdad]

I did not know you personally knew the Founders. That is a cute trick. You will have to teach it to me. On the theory that the ballot box is rigged, which side is doing the rigging? In this case, it must have been the liberals, because they won. Who rigged the ballot box in 1968, 1972, 1980, 1984, 1988, 2000, and 2004? It must have been conservatives. So, in 1960, 1964, 1976, 1992, 1996, 2008, and 2012 we have ballot boxes rigged by liberals. So is your point that the riggng of elections is fair and balanced? There is someone behind the scenes who manipulates both liberal and conservative elections? One other point, would you please explain how someone skews an electoral college vote that meets in mid-December?

You are assuming Republicans and Democrats are on different teams. They aren't. They are all bought and paid for by a handful of individual "campaign donors" (At least those at the top), with only a handful of exceptions...who are frequently labeled as "Crazy extremists"by those who have sold their souls...

The election is rigged from the beginning, by the laws that give Republicans and Democrats ballot access and tax payer funding that no one else has, and by a media that brain washes the public with the continual mantra "Don't waste your vote...vote Republican or Democrat...don't waste your vote..."

 

[Eric B]

There is a movement among the Assemblypersons in the southern part of California, to secede from the state and split it in half.

And get this....they want to end the boundry lines at LA County. all of us in the south are tired of the liberals in Hollywood and Frisco, not to mention the growing swell of support for gays.

Believe it or not. Those of us south of LA are very conservative. We are just out numbered. By splitting the state, we'd have a fait amount of electoral votes to give to the next Tea Party/Republicn candidate. Simly put: California would no longer be a slam dunk for the DNC.

It is a movement that has great possibility, so pray for it to come about. Think of it. a South Cali and a North Cali. I know those of us down south could sleep better at nights knowing we rid ourselves of the fruit, nuts and flakes! :laugh:

I used to hear about this California split years ago, but it was different from what's being said now. IIRC, it was something like northern California wanting to be separate from the LA culture. The split would be somewhere around Santa Barbara, which was said to be more aligned with SF culture (?).

So now, it's just a bunch of southern (mostly inland; surprised Orange would want to dissociate from LA) counties that want to be cut off from more liberal coastal areas? What about all those far northern areas (redwoods, etc)? Are they liberal, and aligned with SF also? I would figure they would be very different from SF/LA culture.

 

[saturneptune]

You are assuming Republicans and Democrats are on different teams. They aren't. They are all bought and paid for by a handful of individual "campaign donors" (At least those at the top), with only a handful of exceptions...who are frequently labeled as "Crazy extremists"by those who have sold their souls...

The election is rigged from the beginning, by the laws that give Republicans and Democrats ballot access and tax payer funding that no one else has, and by a media that brain washes the public with the continual mantra "Don't waste your vote...vote Republican or Democrat...don't waste your vote..."

If one looks to the Constitution as a standard, the gap between the Constitution and the two major parties is much, much greater than the difference between the two parties. That does not explain why whoever is pulling the strings would want to rig elections to different parties every eight years or so.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

There are those who believe getting on a plane and leaving the US is a valid option.

For many, it is not. For one, going to another country requires a Visa. Staying in that country is not easy. Many countries let one visit only for a short period and then put the visitor back on a plane to the country they came from.

I have a friend who had to return from Ireland every few months after arriving there and then would have to reapply for entrance there. The sad part about it was he was married to an Irish citizen and could not be with her but a few months a year because of the law governing visitors to Ireland.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

There are those who believe getting on a plane and leaving the US is a valid option.

For many, it is not. For one, going to another country requires a Visa. Staying in that country is not easy. Many countries let one visit only for a short period and then put the visitor back on a plane to the country they came from.

I have a friend who had to return from Ireland every few months after arriving there and then would have to reapply for entrance there. The sad part about it was he was married to an Irish citizen and could not be with her but a few months a year because of the law governing visitors to Ireland.

That's unfortunate. Normally the spouse of a citizen or permanent resident here gets permission to stay, but may not be able to work. So sad to hear they had trouble. Your point is excellent about just thinking one can pick up and move country.

 

[mont974x4]

forget it/ not worth it