guitarpreacher
New Member
What's being added to the Gospel? Or taken away?
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Seeker Sensitive: Is It Biblical?
- Thread starter MikeinGhana
- Start date
Hey all:
I know the topic has been beaten to death. But, I ran across this article from an SBC scholar in Evangelism @ SEBTS.
It is nothing but great. I hope it adds to the discussion.
http://sbclife.net/printfriendly.asp
soli deo gloria!
rd
I know the topic has been beaten to death. But, I ran across this article from an SBC scholar in Evangelism @ SEBTS.
It is nothing but great. I hope it adds to the discussion.
http://sbclife.net/printfriendly.asp
soli deo gloria!
rd
guitarpreacher
New Member
I couldn't get the link to open
Try this one:
When you open it, scroll down to "The Seeker" article.
I hope this works.
http://sbclife.net/
sdg!
rd
PS I just edited the post and tried the hyperlink. It works but you must scroll down and click on "The Seeker" article about 1/2 way down and on the left.
PPS It is really a must read for all dealing with the Seeker Sensitive issues.
When you open it, scroll down to "The Seeker" article.
I hope this works.
http://sbclife.net/
sdg!
rd
PS I just edited the post and tried the hyperlink. It works but you must scroll down and click on "The Seeker" article about 1/2 way down and on the left.
PPS It is really a must read for all dealing with the Seeker Sensitive issues.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Rhet that is a good article. Thanks. I like the term the author uses "responder".
I am a johnny come lately around here and especialy on this thread. I have read through alot of this thread. I may also be just a Southern Baptist boy. But I dont get it.
When it comes to the seeker sensative movement and their leaders it is important to check out their influences and who they are currently hanging with. You will find that they are fellowshipping with false teachers who preach another gospel.
Why do we need to be seeker sensative? How about Holy Ghost sensative? How about lets stop relying on tactics and methods and just preach the Word.
Instead of preaching on "Ten ways to feel better"
lets preach on the cross and how it saves.
Instead of preaching on "20 ways to overcome stress" lets preach on the blood and how it washes us white as snow.
Lets preach on sin and how we need to repent of it.
Lets preach on hell and its eternal flame.
Lets preach on heaven and how to get there.
Lets preach on Jesus and him crucified.
Lets preach on Eternity with God.
Lets preach on the free gift of eternal life.
Lets quit playing Dr. Phil,
lets quit the comedy hour,
lets quit paint night on roller skates
and lets just preach the word!
When it comes to the seeker sensative movement and their leaders it is important to check out their influences and who they are currently hanging with. You will find that they are fellowshipping with false teachers who preach another gospel.
Why do we need to be seeker sensative? How about Holy Ghost sensative? How about lets stop relying on tactics and methods and just preach the Word.
Instead of preaching on "Ten ways to feel better"
lets preach on the cross and how it saves.
Instead of preaching on "20 ways to overcome stress" lets preach on the blood and how it washes us white as snow.
Lets preach on sin and how we need to repent of it.
Lets preach on hell and its eternal flame.
Lets preach on heaven and how to get there.
Lets preach on Jesus and him crucified.
Lets preach on Eternity with God.
Lets preach on the free gift of eternal life.
Lets quit playing Dr. Phil,
lets quit the comedy hour,
lets quit paint night on roller skates
and lets just preach the word!
MikeinGhana
New Member
Welcome to the discussion "Johnny come lately". It seems like this post struck a real nerve among the brethren attested by the fact that we have 20 pages of responses. While I will fight for my brethren's rights to their opinions and convictions, I am still not convinced that the SS Movement is scriptural.
Whoo-eee that is a lot of reading
I agree that more Churches need to be sensitive in their seeking but to jump on the "Seeker Sensitive" bandwagon is a marrying of right intentions with false practices. We can't expect to look and act like the world in order to offer them something different from the world....because then the focus gets blurred. Do modern day Baptist Churches need to change how they do things? Yes Do they need to compromise or associate with false teachers to accomplish this? RESOUNDING NO!!
Sometimes we as Baptist like our "circled wagon" complex. It gives us an excuse to ignore other issues around us and to keep our gates closed. I think we need to be more "inclusive". I've heard it often joked that not even Jesus would be accepted in some Baptist Churches because he associated with thiefs, harlots, and other deviants While this is meant as a half-hearted joke...it is a bit telling on us as Baptist believers because we tend to "exclude" before we "include". Now don't take me wrong I believe in seperation from the world; seperation from the "Praise" and other modern charismatic-like influences; I believe in 1 version of the English Bible; I believe in standards of dress, conduct, & habits; and I believe in leadership with responsibilities; I believe in individuality with accountability. But I also think our Churches tend to scare more away than they bring in with soul-winning or visitation and it is a practice that needs to be adjusted.
God created a world (I know another argument in itself, for some) but I believe he made a world of balance and expects us as Christians to be balanced in our personal growth, in our service...in all areas of our Life! So our outreach needs to be sensitive and balanced with our seperation. Yes it is possible to do this...Jesus did!!
[ March 13, 2006, 04:35 AM: Message edited by: MRCoon ]
I agree that more Churches need to be sensitive in their seeking but to jump on the "Seeker Sensitive" bandwagon is a marrying of right intentions with false practices. We can't expect to look and act like the world in order to offer them something different from the world....because then the focus gets blurred. Do modern day Baptist Churches need to change how they do things? Yes Do they need to compromise or associate with false teachers to accomplish this? RESOUNDING NO!!
Sometimes we as Baptist like our "circled wagon" complex. It gives us an excuse to ignore other issues around us and to keep our gates closed. I think we need to be more "inclusive". I've heard it often joked that not even Jesus would be accepted in some Baptist Churches because he associated with thiefs, harlots, and other deviants While this is meant as a half-hearted joke...it is a bit telling on us as Baptist believers because we tend to "exclude" before we "include". Now don't take me wrong I believe in seperation from the world; seperation from the "Praise" and other modern charismatic-like influences; I believe in 1 version of the English Bible; I believe in standards of dress, conduct, & habits; and I believe in leadership with responsibilities; I believe in individuality with accountability. But I also think our Churches tend to scare more away than they bring in with soul-winning or visitation and it is a practice that needs to be adjusted.
God created a world (I know another argument in itself, for some) but I believe he made a world of balance and expects us as Christians to be balanced in our personal growth, in our service...in all areas of our Life! So our outreach needs to be sensitive and balanced with our seperation. Yes it is possible to do this...Jesus did!!
[ March 13, 2006, 04:35 AM: Message edited by: MRCoon ]
MikeinGhana
New Member
I think another term for this movement should be Seeker Driven. Yes, we should all be sensitive to the spiritual needs of lost sinners and be always ready with an answer of the hope that lies within us. But love for God and His Word should drive us to serve and worship, not sinners.
It seems like we are trying to much to label what is actually happening in these churches. I believe they succed because the folks know how to relate to one another. It's taught and shown by example.
We have one church plant, a seeker sensitive church here in our town. It exploded. I believe it is Saddleback's first church plant, but I could be wrong.
Most people here ARE churched, and have made prior attempts to attend church. I used to meet with over half of the new folks in our area (my job) and I always invited them to church. Most folks would tell me they didn't return because someone wasn't nice to them. Sometimes it would be a whole group who wasn't nice. I went to church with many folks the first time at Sonrise or wherever they wanted. I got involved in Sonrise for a bit while searching for a church.
This is a group of people who aren't concerned with judging one another, and actually allow people to mature into christ at their own pace. This is HARD for many churches to do. This church has HIGHER standards for conduct than other churches in my opinion. The old saying is you get what you ask for.
Each person is sent through a process. Trust is built and accountability forms. There are many small groups which meet, study the bible, and hold each other accountable. And these people yearn for it. There is very little gossip.
This is not to say there are not many other good churches here.
We have one church plant, a seeker sensitive church here in our town. It exploded. I believe it is Saddleback's first church plant, but I could be wrong.
Most people here ARE churched, and have made prior attempts to attend church. I used to meet with over half of the new folks in our area (my job) and I always invited them to church. Most folks would tell me they didn't return because someone wasn't nice to them. Sometimes it would be a whole group who wasn't nice. I went to church with many folks the first time at Sonrise or wherever they wanted. I got involved in Sonrise for a bit while searching for a church.
This is a group of people who aren't concerned with judging one another, and actually allow people to mature into christ at their own pace. This is HARD for many churches to do. This church has HIGHER standards for conduct than other churches in my opinion. The old saying is you get what you ask for.
Each person is sent through a process. Trust is built and accountability forms. There are many small groups which meet, study the bible, and hold each other accountable. And these people yearn for it. There is very little gossip.
This is not to say there are not many other good churches here.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
That is just not relevant in our post-modern society. The lost aren't going to sit there and listen to that.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
Joseph Botwinick
Seeker Driven churches has their place. They can reach people who don't or won't come to a tradtional church. They can reach people that your or mine church cannot.
Seeker Driven is to get lost people in the fold. It is very evangilstic in nature. It meets a need that many churches are not reaching.
There are some churches that don't teach the whole counsel of God, that are seeker friendly. There also some tradtional churches that pick and choose their theology.
Seeker Driven is to get lost people in the fold. It is very evangilstic in nature. It meets a need that many churches are not reaching.
There are some churches that don't teach the whole counsel of God, that are seeker friendly. There also some tradtional churches that pick and choose their theology.
What is it that the lost are not going to sit andlisten too? If they refuse to hear about Jesus, the cross or sin then they will stay lost. For you cannot be saved without it.
You cannot be saved without acknowledging you are a sinner. You cannot be saved without depending on the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
the culture does not determine the message but only the word of God.
You cannot be saved without acknowledging you are a sinner. You cannot be saved without depending on the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
the culture does not determine the message but only the word of God.
Not sure that I have posted on this thread, so I may be another Johnny come lately. Can't remember. I have a bad case of sometimers. Sometimes I remember things and other times I don't
While I think it is wonderful that folks have come to a saving knowledge our Jesus at these seeker sensitive churches, it makes the real job of the church next to impossible . . . discipleship. If we have to look the like the world to draw them in, there is no way in the world they are going to want to separate themselves from the world through discipleship. And why should they . . . the church that brought them to salvation hasn't.
Folks we forget that church is really for the believer not the unbeliever. Unfortunately that has been turned around 100s of years now. Church is supposed to be a place where believers are built up, refreshed, educated, discipled. Granted once or twice a week is not the only time that is supposed to happen, but it is a time for it to happen corporately.
The lost are supposed to be dealt with for the most part on their turf outside the four walls.
While I think it is wonderful that folks have come to a saving knowledge our Jesus at these seeker sensitive churches, it makes the real job of the church next to impossible . . . discipleship. If we have to look the like the world to draw them in, there is no way in the world they are going to want to separate themselves from the world through discipleship. And why should they . . . the church that brought them to salvation hasn't.
Folks we forget that church is really for the believer not the unbeliever. Unfortunately that has been turned around 100s of years now. Church is supposed to be a place where believers are built up, refreshed, educated, discipled. Granted once or twice a week is not the only time that is supposed to happen, but it is a time for it to happen corporately.
The lost are supposed to be dealt with for the most part on their turf outside the four walls.
Trinity C.
New Member
I agree with Revmitchell and J. Jump. We are to be of the world not part of it. My problem too is that the leadership becomes so "Purpose Driven" (the term has become so synominous with seeker sensitive) that they only focus on the "felt needs' of the community. Why should we as the body of Christ take that which is holy and profane it and cause the unbeliever to be so innoculated to truth that it becomes us that deceives. Our commission from Christ was to preach the Gospel, to be salt and light, not attending to the whims of those that haven't darkened the door of a church in their life. I have been a Christian for 7.5 yrs. and I am distraught that the church in many areas is playing follow the leader. I ask, who's leading? Is it Christ or those that have New York Times best sellers. People need to hear the truth and to be taught the truth. Seeker sensitive, I agree only clouds the line of distinction between the Body and the world and yes makes it harder for the church to mold proper disciples of Christ.
I don't see Paul or Peter or any of the other epistles writers teaching us to mimick our surroundings to attract those that are . Maybe it would do us all some good to go to Revelation and see what Jesus commended and condemned by the examples of those churches.
I don't see Paul or Peter or any of the other epistles writers teaching us to mimick our surroundings to attract those that are . Maybe it would do us all some good to go to Revelation and see what Jesus commended and condemned by the examples of those churches.
Numbers do not indicate a move of God. There is a difference in a church and a crowd.
IveyLeaguer
New Member
HAVE they?
Absolutely agree.
IveyLeaguer I truly think there have been a number of folks that have come into a saving knowledge of Jesus and have accepted Him as Savior at these churches.
However, as Theodore Epp put it, in his book Joshua-Victorious by Faith, these folks that have been "saved" in these churches are more than likely going to be left in the wilderness wondering around throughout their Christian life instead of crossing the Jordan and living the life of victory that can be had in following the Lord.
While salvation is a free gift, discipleship has a cost that comes with it. And if these folks have been brought in with all the glitz and glamour of the world then what are the chances they are going to forsake all of that and choose the disciple road? Not very good in my estimation.
I put this quote in another thread, but Epp said way back in 1968 that we don't need new methods, free giveaways and the like we just need the people of God to experience the power of God and we need the messages that have the power of God and not the entertainment value of the world. Only then we will see lives changed.
If you haven't read that book I highly recommend it. While I don't agree with everything he says, Epp does do a great job of showing the picture of the Christian walk through the OT book of Joshua.
However, as Theodore Epp put it, in his book Joshua-Victorious by Faith, these folks that have been "saved" in these churches are more than likely going to be left in the wilderness wondering around throughout their Christian life instead of crossing the Jordan and living the life of victory that can be had in following the Lord.
While salvation is a free gift, discipleship has a cost that comes with it. And if these folks have been brought in with all the glitz and glamour of the world then what are the chances they are going to forsake all of that and choose the disciple road? Not very good in my estimation.
I put this quote in another thread, but Epp said way back in 1968 that we don't need new methods, free giveaways and the like we just need the people of God to experience the power of God and we need the messages that have the power of God and not the entertainment value of the world. Only then we will see lives changed.
If you haven't read that book I highly recommend it. While I don't agree with everything he says, Epp does do a great job of showing the picture of the Christian walk through the OT book of Joshua.
IveyLeaguer
New Member
Yeah, there's been a number of people saved, and we are thankful for that. But I suspect there are many more who believe they are saved and aren't, a condition not limited to seeker churches either. With rare exceptions, every church has wheat and tares but seeker churches for the most part preach and teach a man-centered gospel, and that seed cannot produce good fruit.
God uses all kinds of flawed and and even false messengers to save, and glory be to Him for doing it. Most of those type ministries drop some good seed, and God can use that. It's the good seed of the Word of God that has saving power, not the messenger or even, to borrow from seeker-speak, the "message facilitator".
And thanks for the book recommendation - sounds good, and it's on the list.
God uses all kinds of flawed and and even false messengers to save, and glory be to Him for doing it. Most of those type ministries drop some good seed, and God can use that. It's the good seed of the Word of God that has saving power, not the messenger or even, to borrow from seeker-speak, the "message facilitator".
And thanks for the book recommendation - sounds good, and it's on the list.