Note that you will not give God the glory as the cause agent of your salvation. You therefore have a very strange understanding of what grace is.
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Seeking God?
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You continue to prove that your comprehension skills are, to say the least, questionable.
You have answered as a christian humanist. You have man as the cause, yet you contradict this by saying you were saved by God's grace. If God's grace is the cause, then your will cannot be the cause.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Your comments just proves once again that you have a comprehension problem.
I have no problem comprehending your humanism.
God does as he pleases, amen; and what He pleased to do was to offer His salvation to all who believe.
He does not “cause” them to believe, that is, He does not force them. It is a man’s responsibility to accept or reject Christ. That is what God pleased to do, therefore God is not to blame for people being lost. They choose to reject God’s rule.
He does not “cause” them to believe, that is, He does not force them. It is a man’s responsibility to accept or reject Christ. That is what God pleased to do, therefore God is not to blame for people being lost. They choose to reject God’s rule.
Then you reject Ephesians 2:4-5?
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Did humans cause themselves to be born again and make themselves alive?
Romans 1 and Romans 3 tells us that left to ourselves we will never choose God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Good thing were not left to our own.
God is actively working in and through His creation, our conscience, His bride, His Holy Spirit filled followers, and His Word to aid humanity in their conversion.
So Austin are you telling us that you were like the men in Romans 1:27? I am just curious as you use these verses to show that all are unable to turn to God. So are all men and women like those described in Romans 1:26-27 or are just some?
And how do you deal with Romans 3:21-30?
Do you really think the Holy Spirit got it wrong when He said:
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
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Is all humanity Jesus bride?
Is the Spirit merely an aid while the human does all the work?
If God chooses to give us over to our human desires, we are all corrupted people like those Paul illustrates in Romans 1.
Romans 3 is a continuation of Paul's argument on justification by faith alone, which started in Romans 1 and continues through Romans 11. Therefore, salvation must come before justification. How are we saved. God tells us. We are saved by God's grace, because we have been adopted and predestined to be saved. (Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2) The gift of faith, which is the cause of our belief that we are saved, is also the cause of our being justified before God the Father. So, read Romans 3 with the understanding that those who are justified by faith have already been saved by grace and believe through the faith that God gifted them.
It's all God, Sliverhair. I know you will reject God as your all in all and you will demand that God is only your aid while you do the work. I know only God can remove your humanism. May God be gracious to you.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Your bible must be missing the following verses:
Righteousness of God Through Faith
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
It's all there. Who is Paul addressing with these verses. Is it pagan, Nero, or Christians in Rome?
Are those Christians already saved?
Does justification come before salvation or after it?
When you understand what Romans 3 is arguing, let us know.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Your comprehension skills need work. But as I said on another thread you are actually beyond help as you refuse to see scripture as the Holy Spirit wrote it.
You don't understand scripture as the Holy Spirit wrote it, Sliverhair. You keep inserting yourself as the main subject.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Care to point out where I am the main subject in this?
Righteousness of God Through Faith
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
]Romans 3:11 makes this statement and some read this as saying "there is none who seeks for God at any time." However the intended contextual message might be "there is none who seeks for God all the time, or when they are going against God by sinning."
Contextually, since Paul is saying "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) when going against God by sinning is most likely the actual message.
Consider this verse:
2 Chronicles 15:4 (NASB)
“But in their distress they turned to the LORD God of Israel, and they sought Him, and He let them find Him.
If no one ever seeks after God, then scripture would not mean what it says! Time to turn from man-centered doctrine and embrace the actual word of God.
Contextually, since Paul is saying "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) when going against God by sinning is most likely the actual message.
Consider this verse:
2 Chronicles 15:4 (NASB)
“But in their distress they turned to the LORD God of Israel, and they sought Him, and He let them find Him.
If no one ever seeks after God, then scripture would not mean what it says! Time to turn from man-centered doctrine and embrace the actual word of God.
There are none that seek after God is a true statement but there are none that ever seek after God is a false interpretation.
Read Psalms 14:1-6. Who are the ones who seek God as a refuge and make God their refuge? Who are ones in great dread, who are the righteous generation?
Who are "My people" in Psalms 14:4? Believing Jews! According to false doctrine, God knowing no one ever seeks God, looked down to see if any were seeking God. Nevermind that is an irrational absurdity. And of course He did not see any that proclaim "there is no God" seeking God, but He did see those who had made God their refuge, the righteous generation, the believing Jews.
Read Psalms 14:1-6. Who are the ones who seek God as a refuge and make God their refuge? Who are ones in great dread, who are the righteous generation?
Who are "My people" in Psalms 14:4? Believing Jews! According to false doctrine, God knowing no one ever seeks God, looked down to see if any were seeking God. Nevermind that is an irrational absurdity. And of course He did not see any that proclaim "there is no God" seeking God, but He did see those who had made God their refuge, the righteous generation, the believing Jews.
Does a lost person "elect themselves" by placing their faith in Christ? Nope, salvation does not, repeat does not, depend on the person who wills or works to be saved, but upon God alone, Romans 9:16. However, these posters post this false claim over and over.
Firstly Scripture does not tell us "There is not one who ever seeks after God!" Romans 3:11
Secondly, Scripture does tell us lost people seek after God. Acts 13:7
Thirdly, Scripture tells us God allows some people to find Him. 2 Chronicles 15:4
Fourthly, no one seeks after God unless they believe He exists and rewards those who seek Him. Hebrews 11:6
Folks, ask yourselves how anyone familiar with Scripture could believe the lost are unable to seek God?
Secondly, Scripture does tell us lost people seek after God. Acts 13:7
Thirdly, Scripture tells us God allows some people to find Him. 2 Chronicles 15:4
Fourthly, no one seeks after God unless they believe He exists and rewards those who seek Him. Hebrews 11:6
Folks, ask yourselves how anyone familiar with Scripture could believe the lost are unable to seek God?
We read this:
*Romans 1:18-25*
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
*Romans 3:10-12*
“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
Why would God have to include the word "ever" when He has already said "None" and "no one?" Your demand that God use your word is just silly. Why won't you believe God?
Firstly Scripture does not tell us "There is not one who ever seeks after God!" Romans 3:11
Secondly, Scripture does tell us lost people seek after God. Acts 13:7
Thirdly, Scripture tells us God allows some people to find Him. 2 Chronicles 15:4
Fourthly, no one seeks after God unless they believe He exists and rewards those who seek Him. Hebrews 11:6
Folks, ask yourselves how anyone familiar with Scripture could believe the lost are unable to seek God?
Ever wonder why these verses are ignored rather than addressed?
There is no one who seeks God at all times, because we have all turned aside. Ask yourselves were those that turned aside, did they turn aside from seeking God. No one seeks God when sinning, when they have turned aside.
Secondly, Scripture does tell us lost people seek after God. Acts 13:7
Thirdly, Scripture tells us God allows some people to find Him. 2 Chronicles 15:4
Fourthly, no one seeks after God unless they believe He exists and rewards those who seek Him. Hebrews 11:6
Folks, ask yourselves how anyone familiar with Scripture could believe the lost are unable to seek God?
Ever wonder why these verses are ignored rather than addressed?
There is no one who seeks God at all times, because we have all turned aside. Ask yourselves were those that turned aside, did they turn aside from seeking God. No one seeks God when sinning, when they have turned aside.
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