Semi-Pelagianism

[DHK]

Heavenly Pilgrim has done nothing that you claim he has.

Here is a quote from DHK:

"When it refers to a particular person repenting it normally refers to that particular sin, as repenting of her sin of prostitution.
For example, when Jesus was talking to the woman accused of adultery, he said: "Go and sin no more." He was not telling her to go and be sinless. He was telling her not to commit adultery again. Don't infer that because I said that Jesus was condoning sin. He wasn't. But that was the message he was giving the woman--not to commit adultery or live that lifestyle any more. She needed to repent of it."

If what you say does not give a person a license to sin, then why in the world would you speak like this?

No one here believes any one has a license to sin. To state such would be to lie. That is sin.
The above explanation is simply an exposition of John 8. Either you believe what Jesus said or you don't.

 

[Moriah]

You see--this is misrepresentation. So why should I stop accusing you of misrepresenting me and others when you keep on doing it?

You are the one who misrepresents what others say.

The story is in John chapter 8.
The Pharisees, trying to tempt Jesus, brought to him a woman caught in the act of adultery to see if he would advocate stoning her.
He replied: Let him that is with no sin cast the first stone. And then he bent down and started writing in the sand. As he continued writing, they began to leave, from the eldest to the youngest until there was no one, except Jesus and the woman.
Then Jesus said to the woman: "Where are thine accusers?" Who is he that condemns thee? She answered: "No man, Lord.?
Then Jesus said: "Go and sin no more."
--See the context. The context is in the context of committing adultery, not in the context of being sinless. It is stop living a life of adultery, not being sinless. No one is sinless. Jesus was not telling her that. He was telling her to give up her adulterous lifestyle. "Go and sin no more." (the sin of adultery).
--That is not what I said, not what I want you to believe, not even close to what I want you to believe. It is slander if anything. For you to say such a thing is sinful.

DHK, THEN WHY IN THE WORLD ARE YOU SPEAKING TO ME ABOUT THE WOMAN AND SAYING JESUS DID NOT TELL HER TO STOP ALL HER SINS.

Many people, people like yourself, preach such things as "Repent of all your sins." Do you tell or preach to others that?
Where does it say that in the NT? Where does it say that one must repent of all their sins in the NT? Can you show me please.
If you can't show me such a verse then my argument that Jesus was telling her to repent of her adultery would be correct wouldn't it?

You do not see the wickedness in the things you say to me! Tell me, why are you saying these things to me?

Do you think that Jesus does not expect her to repent of all her sins or not?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Moriah: If what you say does not give a person a license to sin, then why in the world would you speak like this?

HP: What is more amazing is that DHK says he is not a Calvinist and does not desire his beliefs to be associated with Calvinism, but when it comes down to the most 'specific' and the most notable, and by far the most far reaching implication of Calvinism, i.e., the notion and implications of OSAS, there is absolutely no distinction that I can see anywhere between DHK's belief and that of any run of the mill Calvinist concerning this all important issue. OSAS is novel to Calvinistic philosophy/theology.

OSAS is a license to sin. It is pure antinomianism. Law without penalty may be good advice, but is no law at all. The penalty for sin is eternal separation from God, and in no wise is ever represented as loss of rewards etc. that Calvinists and those leaning hard towards Calvinism try and change the Word of God into saying.

If DHK or anyone else desires to separate themselves from Calvinistic theology, they are going to have to rethink and separate themselves from the first, foremost, and primary distinctive novel to Calvinistic thought i.e., OSAS.

What is a license to sin but the removal of the Scriptural penalty for sin?

 

[DHK]

You are the one who misrepresents what others say.


DHK, THEN WHY IN THE WORLD ARE YOU SPEAKING TO ME ABOUT THE WOMAN AND SAYING JESUS DID NOT TELL HER TO STOP ALL HER SINS.

Does it specifically say that in the Bible, or are you just reading that into the Bible to support your twisted theology?

You do not see the wickedness in the things you say to me! Tell me, why are you saying these things to me?

Because the things that you say on this board are wrong.
Either you are a sinner that sins or according to 1John 1:8,10 you are a heretic. Which do you choose?

Do you think that Jesus does not expect her to repent of all her sins or not?

I think you need to prove that the Bible teaches that one needs to repent of all their sins. And since you can't point to a verse that says that why should any one believe you?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Either you are a sinner that sins or according to 1John 1:8,10 you are a heretic. Which do you choose?

HP: And what does this Scripture have to say about one that testifies to daily sin, and tries to maintain that no one can keep the commandments of God?

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

How do we know we are "in Him?" Is it by sinning every day? Is it by claiming that no one can keep His commandments?


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[DHK]

HP: And what does this Scripture have to say about one that testifies to daily sin, and tries to maintain that no one can keep the commandments of God?

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

How do we know we are "in Him?" Is it by sinning every day? Is it by claiming that no one can keep His commandments?

I will let you answer your own question. I know you can do it.

Mat 7:21

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Totally off topic. This verse is speaking of false teachers. Read the context.

 

[Moriah]

I think you need to prove that the Bible teaches that one needs to repent of all their sins. And since you can't point to a verse that says that why should any one believe you?

I can refute you with the truth easily.

Matthew 9:2
Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

Matthew 9:5
Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’?

The paralytic's SINS were forgiven, not sin.

Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. ”

Luke 7:47
Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.”

Luke 7:48
Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

FROM THE LORD ON HOW TO PRAY!---

Luke 11:4
Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation. ’”

James 5:16
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

1 Peter 2:24
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

2 Peter 1:9
But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:12
I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

HP: Here is a clear passage that a wayfaring man, though a fool, can understand.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Does your faith cause you to have victory over the world? Are we overcomers or are we merely succumbers to temptation and sin?

 

[Michael Wrenn]

HP: And what does this Scripture have to say about one that testifies to daily sin, and tries to maintain that no one can keep the commandments of God?

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

How do we know we are "in Him?" Is it by sinning every day? Is it by claiming that no one can keep His commandments?


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

HP, I asked you the following in post #193, but perhaps you missed it due to the repetitive arguing: "If I've asked before, please excuse me, but what is your view on sanctification/entire sanctification?"

Thought I should ask before the thread reaches 30 pages and gets closed.

 

[DHK]

I can refute you with the truth easily.

Matthew 9:2
Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

Matthew 9:5
Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’?

The paralytic's SINS were forgiven, not sin.

Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. ”

Luke 7:47
Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.”

Luke 7:48
Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

FROM THE LORD ON HOW TO PRAY!---

Luke 11:4
Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation. ’”

James 5:16
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

1 Peter 2:24
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

2 Peter 1:9
But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:12
I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So what is your point? When we ask forgiveness Christ forgives our sins.
What you have demonstrated is OSAS.
These unsaved came to Jesus and Jesus forgave all their sins: past, present, and future. That is eternal security. Good job!

What you have not demonstrated is this:
Where in the Bible does it say: Repent of all your sins (in order to be saved).

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Either you are a sinner that sins or according to 1John 1:8,10 you are a heretic. Which do you choose?

HP: I choose to believe and stand with Paul regardless what you call him.:thumbs:

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

 

[DHK]

[/SIZE]

HP: I choose to believe and stand with Paul regardless what you call him.:thumbs:

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Paul was not dishonest as you infer. He called himself "the chief of sinners," so what does that mean?
He said: "The things I do, I don't want to do."
"The things I don't want to do, those I do."
"It is no more I that do them but sin that dwelleth in me."
"Oh wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this death."

Paul admitted that he was a sinner, the chief of sinners, and that sin dwells in him. He wasn't a hypocrite.

 

[Moriah]

HP, I asked you the following in post #193, but perhaps you missed it due to the repetitive arguing:

Are you trying to make us feel bad for being in a debate? No one is forcing you to be here.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Michael: I asked you the following in post #193, but perhaps you missed it due to the repetitive arguing: "If I've asked before, please excuse me, but what is your view on sanctification/entire sanctification?"

HP: Of course I would disagree with the view that sanctification is the eradication of the sinful nature, but in practice, I find little to no disagreement with those of the Arminian persuasion concerning this issue that you are familiar with. Theologically I would disagree on how they get there and what it theoretically accomplishes, but 'practically' I see little to no difference in my belief with say that of the Nazarenes and many others of Arminian persuasions.

Sanctification is the great need of the church today. I know of one famous evangelist that at the end of his life in reflection said that if he had it all to do over again he would spend more time on the sanctification of the believer that on the salvation of the unbeliever. In reality to do so may well have saved some that started well from making shipwreck of the faith in the end.

 

[Moriah]

So what is your point? When we ask forgiveness Christ forgives our sins.

What you have not demonstrated is this:
Where in the Bible does it say: Repent of all your sins (in order to be saved).

YOU SAID, "I think you need to prove that the Bible teaches that one needs to repent of all their sins. And since you can't point to a verse that says that why should any one believe you?"

I have PROVEN with many scriptures that we have to repent of our SINS. Yet, you still repeat your falseness and confusion when you say, "Where in the Bible does it say: Repent of all your sins (in order to be saved)."

You have been exposed.

 

[DHK]

YOU SAID, "I think you need to prove that the Bible teaches that one needs to repent of all their sins. And since you can't point to a verse that says that why should any one believe you?"

I have PROVEN with many scriptures that we have to repents of our SINS. Yet, you still repeat your falseness and confusion when you say, "Where in the Bible does it say: Repent of all your sins (in order to be saved)."

You have been exposed.

No, you have not given one verse which says to repent of all your sins.
You gave many verses about forgiveness of sins, and provided good evidence for OSAS. But not one verse for repenting of all your sins. Where is it?

 

[Moriah]

No, you have not given one verse which says to repent of all your sins.
You gave many verses about forgiveness of sins, and provided good evidence for OSAS. But not one verse for repenting of all your sins. Where is it?

You are exposed. Tell us, do Christians have to or not repent of their sins?

 

[DHK]

You are exposed. Tell us, do Christians have to or not repent of their sins?

You do err not knowing the Scriptures.
First, I don't believe you know what repentance is.
Second, You still can't provide a verse that commands one to repent of all their sins. I will not answer any of your questions until you provide such a verse or admit that there is none.

 

[Moriah]

You do err not knowing the Scriptures.
First, I don't believe you know what repentance is.
Second, You still can't provide a verse that commands one to repent of all their sins. I will not answer any of your questions until you provide such a verse or admit that there is none.

All you can do is personally attack and talk confusing jargon.

Luke 11
Jesus’ Teaching on Prayer
1 One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”

2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:

“‘Father,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.’”

 

[DHK]

All you can do is personally attack and talk confusing jargon.

Luke 11
Jesus’ Teaching on Prayer
1 One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”

2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:

“‘Father,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.’”

Forgiveness and repentance are not the same thing.

Where in the NT does it command one to repent of all their sin? Where does it say that Moriah?