Words have meanings. If the Bible had meant to say repent it would have said repent, but it didn't. It says "confess," a word that means something entirely different than repent. We don't repent of our sins to one another. That doesn't even make sense. Please do a study on definitions of these basic theological terms. Otherwise any discussion is fruitless. IOW a discussion on repentance is fruitless when you don't know what repentance is or can't define it properly. Likewise "confession," "forgiveness," etc.
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Semi-Pelagianism
- Thread starter Michael Wrenn
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Imagine for a moment the ludicrousness you are teaching… “Hey DHK, I get drunk every night. I am not saying I am sorry for it and want to quit, I am just telling you about it.” That is ridiculous.
We are to confess our sins to each other means we are telling our sins that we are sorry for and want to stop.
What DHK is saying is that we can do a filthy rag confession. That is the kind of thing some of Jews did, and that is who the filthy rags scripture was about, the Jews. The filthy rag scripture has been misunderstood by many, and is a scripture many in falseness use in an abusive way. A filthy rag confession is confessing something and not being sorry for it.
Here is a scripture from the Bible that show confession that is required of us is one of repentance and remorse.
Acts 19:18 Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds.
We can see from this scripture that people came and confessed their evil deeds, deeds is plural. DHK has argued that we do not have to repent of all our sins.
Now read this next scripture---
Acts 19:19 A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly.
This scripture shows that they were sorry for their sins AND are REPENTING of their sins, for they burned their scrolls with information on how to do sorcery. This shows that they do not plan to do sorcery anymore.
Again, DHK is trying to convince all that confessing does not mean repenting or being sorry for our sins. That is ludicrous.
Here is a scripture from the Bible that show confession that is required of us is one of repentance and remorse.
Acts 19:18 Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds.
We can see from this scripture that people came and confessed their evil deeds, deeds is plural. DHK has argued that we do not have to repent of all our sins.
Now read this next scripture---
Acts 19:19 A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly.
This scripture shows that they were sorry for their sins AND are REPENTING of their sins, for they burned their scrolls with information on how to do sorcery. This shows that they do not plan to do sorcery anymore.
Again, DHK is trying to convince all that confessing does not mean repenting or being sorry for our sins. That is ludicrous.
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I don't want to detract from your discussion with Moriah but John's gospel, including his baptism of repentance IS the same gospel and baptism presented in the Great Commission and not one wit's difference EXCEPT his gospel looked forward to the cross as John 1:29 clearly states and ours looks back but as the writer of Hebrews when looking at both the pre and post claims it is the very SAME GOSPEL preached "unto them.... as well as unto us" (Heb. 4;2).
The Holy Spirit has been present on earth since Genesis 1:2 and has been regenerating, indwelling, sanctifying and every other aspect of PERSONAL and INDIVIDUAL salvation long before Pentecost. Jesus rebuked Nicodemus for being a teacher of the Old Testament and yet ignorant of this INDIVIDUAL work by the Holy Spirit:
"....Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?" - Jn. 3:10
The Baptism and promise of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost has NOTHING to do with INDIVIDUAL salvation per se. (Except in God's plan of redemption being changed from the sphere of Israel to the Gentiles - the world). It has to do with an ADMINISTRATIVE Change of the INSTITUTIONAL house of God, thus a change of the administrator of the Keys of the kingdom based upon the public ratification of the New Covenant. The Holy Spirit was "with" the disciples as INDIVIDUALS but on Pentecost came to be "in" them as the INSTITUTIONAL house of God as a corporate body. This is the distinction Paul draws between the singular temple and plural "you" in 1 Cor. 3:16 versus the singular temple and singular "you" in 1 Cor. 6:19.
Don't confuse PROGRESSIVE REVELATION in regard to the gospel as a changed or different gospel as Acts 26:22-23 and the words "SAYING NONE OTHER THINGS" expliclty denies as well as Acts 10:43 and Hebrews 4:2.
Simply because the term "repentance" may not be found in the gospel of John or found little in the epistles does not mean that its synonyms are not abundant throughout. Indeed, repentance is taught throughout the gospel of John. Remember, Luke defines the Great Commission unto ALL NATIONS in the terms of "repentance":
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Amen to that!
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You have to explain something as basic as repentance to DHK, but you give him an Amen for calling me confused, you should not even use such a Holy word for your ridiculousness.
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It is one thing to confess sin and quite another thing to confess Christ. The gospel confession is clearly spelled out for you in Romans 10:8-10 and it is not the confession of sin.
Repentance is an inward change of mind, heart, and will toward sin. It is the truth of the gospel that cleanses the conscience from conviction of sin (1 Pet. 3:21; heb. 9:17). The good news of the Gospel removes the condemnation of the conscience which convicts one of sins. The good news that cleanses the conscience from the condemnation of sin is the news that Jesus died for sins and that faith in Christ justifies the believer before God.
What you reject is the fact that repentance or faith are NOT natural abilities of fallen man but must be given or "granted" (Acts 11:17; Jn. 6:64-65).
You pervert the words of Christ who says "NO MAN" to mean "NO SPECIAL SELECT GROUP OF JEWS" and you pervert the words of Christ who says "EVERY MAN" to mean "EVERY JEW OF A SPECIALIZED GROUP."
The problem you continue to have is that every single one that is drawn by the Father is also saved by the Father and none are lost - not one (Jn. 6;37-39; 44-45).
In another post, you tried to say the Gentiles were included all along. Only the Jews had the adoption as sons; the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises, see Romans 9:4. In addition, the Gentiles were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world, see Ephesians 2:12.
There is such a thing called "context" or did you know that???? Apparently not. Apparently, you think you have a license to select verses from one context and jam them into another context when the contexts have NOTHING to do with each other.
In Romans 9:24 the term "gentiles" is found and inclusive in the potter and vessel illustration proving Paul is not restricting this teaching to merely the Jews.
In Romans 9:3-5 Paul is merely demonstrating that such things were given to Israel as a nation but that does not mean every individual Jew is a child of God as verses 6-8 clearly state. Individual salvation is not determined by being a natural born Jew but upon being a SUPERnatural born chosen Jew. Individual salvation is not determined by being a natural born gentile but by being a SUPERnatural born chosen gentile. Salvation is the same for both and genetics play no part whatsoever. The things listed in Romans 9:3-5 only provide the Jew with greater light and thus greater responsibility but does not save them any more than the lack of such things saves a gentile - both are saved exactly the same way - the new birth according to the purpose of election through faith in the gospel - the very same gospel preached unto them as unto us (heb. 4:2).
So simple, so clear and yet you are so confused.
I have no problem with that. Others do. It is hard for them to grasp.
I agree that the Spirit was working in the OT.
However there were 3,000 individuals that were saved on the day of Pentecost. The Lord has been saving individuals throughout history.
To put it very simply:
In the OT one finds Christ concealed;
In the NT one finds Christ revealed.
There are some that can digest the milk of God's Word better than the meat. It is far easier to stay with that milk in the Book of Acts and in the epistles rather than go to OT passages or messages. Just trying to keep things simple for the sake of debate.
Romans 10:9 does not nullify confessing sins! It supports and confirms it!
Romans 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
You say this, but then deny a person does this before they are saved! Even though the Word of God tells us this is what happens before they are saved! God, who knows our hearts shows that He accepts us by giving us His Spirit, see Acts 15:8. Those who obey receive the Holy Spirit, see Acts 5:32. You go against the Word of God, to take your reformed leaders word!
I have explained those scriptures to you repeatedly, but you reject the truth.
I see you enjoy using the word pervert. You do exactly what you falsely accusing me of doing. You do not even acknowledge that there was a special group of Jews; Jesus said they were THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL. Even though the scriptures tell us this, you still say no. Read this and be ashamed at the truth you deny and go against, and for the brute comments you make to me.
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.
Matthew 10:6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
People who learned of God were drawn to Jesus! 43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
They are drawn to Jesus because they recognize what Jesus says as God' Word!
You have been ensnared to lead other astray from the truth.
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Look at the context! Where is confession of sin even ONCE mentioned? Nowhere! What is Paul describing in Romans 10:8-12? The gospel! He is not dealing with pre-conviction of sin but rather confession of faith in the gospel of Christ - read the content of the context and stop reading into it what it does not say and what it does not talk about - it says NOTHING about conviction or confession of sins but assumes that has already taken place before CONFESSING FAITH in the gospel of Christ.
The problem between us is the word "before"! I said it happens WHEN - SIMELTANEOUS with regeneration/conversion to the gospel. It is a CONTEMPORARY event that is inclusive of regeneration/conversion.
The problem is that God has an elect among Israel at that present time but in John 10 he has other sheep that are not of this fold - Gentiles. In John 6 he is speaking of "ALL" not merely the Jews being given to Christ then, but to "ALL" who will be given even as Jesus prayed in John 17 for those who "SHALL BE HEIRS OF SALVATION" as those also inclusive in the ones having been "given" to Christ.
However, you want to take John 6 and selectively apply it to only ONE PORTION when it is applied to "ALL" that "SHALL BE HEIRS OF SALVATION." Look at John 17:2 and you will see it is in consideration of "ALL FLESH" not merely JEWISH FLESH and the Father did not give unto him "ALL FLESH" but "as many as" were given to him out of "ALL FLESH".
STop reading into the text what it does not say. They come to Christ in faith because the faith is "GIVEN UNTO HIM" (Jn. 6:65). Understanding God's Word must be GIVEN unto them - read Matthew 13:10-11!
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You just do not accept scripture. Scripture interferes with your manufactured beliefs of total depravity.
Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
Actually you totally misunderstand that passage, and ought not to use it so glibly. Confessing our sins one to another could be quite embarrassing and could cause a lot of trouble in the church.
Purely Hypothetical: Characters and story lines are not based on actual events. This is fictional. It is hypothetical.
Imagine this "Prayer time" where folks are going to confess to one another first:
First: "Pray for me folks, my wife doesn't know it yet, but I was tempted last night and gave into. I committed adultery with my neighbor's wife."
Second: "Pray for me. I confess my sin of drinking. I was going to meet with deacon...., at the bar last night but he didn't show up.
Third: "I confess my evil thoughts; I have been lusting after Farmer Joe's daughter ever since they joined the church."
Fourth: "I confess that I cussed out my children last night. I really lost it. But they deserved it. They stole candy from the local store."
Is this how things are handled in your church Moriah? Is there open confession of sin meant to embarrass everyone--things that should never be brought out into the open.
Evil thoughts are confessed to God and God alone. I am sure that family will never attend that church again. This idea of yours does more damage than good. David said (concerning adultery and murder) "I have sinned against thee and thee only."
The verse about confessing sin one to another does not mean what you think it means.
--Confession is not repentance.
I hope that the above illustrates the point.
Look how they were placed "in Christ" in verse 1,5,8 10 - "created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works". Quickening, being created in Christ are one and the same. Ephesians 2:8 demonstrates this quickening creative work of God placing them "in Christ" was inclusive of faith. The perfect tense demonstrating it was all a completed action in the past that stands complete right up to the present (present tense verb).
Hence, regeneration and conversion through faith are simeltaneous in time but cause and consequence in relationship with each other. The question is not "before" or "after" but WHEN - they were regenerated WHEN they believed the gospel and that is why Paul says "by grace are ye saved THROUGH faith" as it is inseparable from being "saved" which is the work of God described in verse 10 "For we are HIS WORKmanship CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS unto good works".
There is no such thing as an unregenerated beleiver in Christ any more than there is such a thing as a regenerated unbeliever - they simply do not exist.
LOL…you are the one who completely misunderstands.
You are adding to the scriptures. We are to expose darkness!
A long drawn out response mingled with an insult to me is how you think others will not see you do not know the scriptures. Confessing our sins is with remorse and with repentance.
No, he is telling you the common sense practical interpretation of the passage in James.
In context, it may well refer to the sins that bring on sickness and thus the chastening hand of God on BELIEVERS. Has no reference to the lost man. - None - zilch - nada!
I never added anything to the Scripture itself. Apparently you don't like the truth explained.
Psalm 51 is an example of that. It is David's psalm of repentance.
It was between David and God alone even though the sin was very public.
The prayer showed confession of sin, and it also showed his repentance.
But it showed them as two different entities. In the psalm he confesses his sin to God. But he prays for repentance. Confession is simple. Anyone can do that. Just list your sins to God. David did that. He told the Lord what he had done.
"I have sinned against thee." That is all that he had to say, for the Lord knew what the sin was.
However, the entire psalm was a psalm of repentance. Repentance involves much more than a simple confession. It is a turning from sin and a turning to God.
Keep in mind, however, that we are speaking of a believer. David was not confessing "all of his sins." His psalm of repentance deals only with two specific sins--the murder of Uriah, and the adultery with Bathshebah. It wasn't "repenting of all of his sins."
In the same way, Jesus was not telling the adulterous to go and be sinless. That would be a command impossible to obey. He was telling her to go and leave the sin of adultery or that lifestyle of adultery completely.
If you want to give an example by a fictional story, then at least keep to the same information as given in the Bible.
We are speaking of the New Testament and you are denying what the Bible says.
So, if she was a thief also, this Jesus did not mean for her to stop doing. Lol…your reasoning is ridiculous.
She wasn't accused of stealing, was she? Don't add to the Bible!
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