Senator McCain sought the endorsement of controversial pastor

[webdog]

So you reject Pastor Hagee's position on going to war with Iran? Kudos to you, then. :thumbs:

Since no link was ever supplied, and it was basically "a friend of a friend said...", you can supply this link stating this is Hagee's position?

 

[KenH]

From the link I supplied on the previous page:


"JOHN HAGEE: Listen to me. Just as I wrote in JERUSALEM COUNTDOWN, Ahmadinejad will not respond to diplomacy. He has no intention of yielding to sanctions. He's stalling for time to make nuclear weapons to attack Israel and to attack the United States.

He will do it. Iran is a clear and present danger to the survival of Israel, to the United States of America and the western the world-- western world. Therefore it is time for America to embrace the words of Senator Joseph Lieberman and consider a military preemptive strike against Iran to prevent a nuclear holocaust in Israel and a nuclear attack in America."

 

[webdog]

From the link I supplied on the previous page:


"JOHN HAGEE: Listen to me. Just as I wrote in JERUSALEM COUNTDOWN, Ahmadinejad will not respond to diplomacy. He has no intention of yielding to sanctions. He's stalling for time to make nuclear weapons to attack Israel and to attack the United States.

He will do it. Iran is a clear and present danger to the survival of Israel, to the United States of America and the western the world-- western world. Therefore it is time for America to embrace the words of Senator Joseph Lieberman and consider a military preemptive strike against Iran to prevent a nuclear holocaust in Israel and a nuclear attack in America."

That is hardly...

...advocate invastion (sic) and killing of thousands of innocents.

Any country that is going to defy UN sanctions and develop nuclear weapons for the intention of wiping America and Israel off the map needs to be dealt with.

 

[Martin]

I never watch him. However my brother watches him all the time and he, my brother, told me about Hagee's preaching on how we should take Iran out.

==So Hagee believes that America should launch a preemptive war against Iran? I would think the mess in Iraq would show that to be a stupid idea. From what I recall about Hagee's preaching, he is something of a fire breather. I certainly don't believe we should follow his foreign policy advice. I doubt McCain cares about Hagee's foreign policy advice either.

It has made my brother, who was a big Hagee supporter, wonder about Hagee and how he can preach the killing of thousands of innocent people.

==While a war with Iran would kill thousands of people, I don't think that is what Hagee is promoting. He is probably promoting the idea that we should use the military to take down the Iranian government (a bad idea). That is not promoting "killing thousands of Iranians" (a holocaust). Maybe just semantics, but it is a difference that is very important in my mind.

Of course Hagee is an "end times" preacher and from what I hear just can't wait for the last war to begin.

==I can't wait for the Rapture. However the only way we can "hasten the day" is through holy living and awaiting the return of the LORD (2Pet 3:10-13). We cannot force God's hand through war, violence, or anyother means. We are to be eagerly awaiting the LORD's day.

 

[KenH]

1) Any country that is going to defy UN sanctions

2) and develp nuclear weapons

1) Don't you conservatives hate the United Nations?

2) Our National Intelligence Estimate says that is not taking place.

 

[webdog]

1) I don't hate anybody

2) ...yet our national intelligence was wrong about Iraq, but you believe them now about Iran. Go figure....

 

[Crabtownboy]

Simply show me where Christ says it is all right to invade any country, start any war, kill anyone.

How can anyone say they are a follower of Chist and go against his teaching on how we should treat others?:BangHead:

 

[KenH]

1) I don't hate anybody

2) ...yet our national intelligence was wrong about Iraq, but you believe them now about Iran. Go figure....

1) Okay. Don't conservatives not care for the United Nations and its resolutions?

2) We know the situation from elsewhere than our NIE, for example: the IAEA.

 

[steaver]

Simply show me where Christ says it is all right to invade any country, start any war, kill anyone.

How can anyone say they are a follower of Chist and go against his teaching on how we should treat others?

Can you find anywhere is Christ's teachings where He said if you don't want the child in your womb you can have someone pull the child out by it's feet, all but the head, and while it squirms with it's arms and legs kicking pierce it's skull with a knife, suck it's brains out until dead and discard it?

Still waiting for an answer!

You believe war is wrong because Christ never told anyone to go to war.

You believe abortion (described above) is ok though?

God Bless!
raying:

 

[Crabtownboy]

Can you find anywhere is Christ's teachings where He said if you don't want the child in your womb you can have someone pull the child out by it's feet, all but the head, and while it squirms with it's arms and legs kicking pierce it's skull with a knife, suck it's brains out until dead and discard it?

Still waiting for an answer!

You believe war is wrong because Christ never told anyone to go to war.

You believe abortion (described above) is ok though?

God Bless!
raying:

Not sure, are you a one topic person. No I can't find such a verse, nor do I believe you or I can find a verse where Christ says it is not all right ... though I do not believe he would say it is all right if asked directly.

Now will you answer my questions:

1, Where does Christ say it is all right to kill your enemy? Where does he say it is right to go to war?

2. How can anyone say they are a follower of Chist and go against his teaching on how we should treat others?


Are you making an assumption that I am for abortion? I have never said I am for abortion. Just curious as so many here seem to jump to conclusions.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Not sure, are you a one topic person.

Yes he is. To listen to Steaver, everything is about abortion. Traffic too heavy? Must be women going to get abortions clogging the highway. Coffee too cold? It's because there are not enough baristas since they were all aborted. Out of toilet paper? The abortionist are using all the resources "killing babies".

 

[Crabtownboy]

Yes he is. To listen to Steaver, everything is about abortion. Traffic too heavy? Must be women going to get abortions clogging the highway. Coffee too cold? It's because there are not enough baristas since they were all aborted. Out of toilet paper? The abortionist are using all the resources "killing babies".

Does he ever answer questions?

It would be interesting to have a rational discussion on abortion, but I know that is not going to happen. As I said, I am against abortion, but I also know it is not a simple issue, it is very complex. I also know that if abortions were made illegal they would not stop, but many more young women would die because of "back room abortions" and self-induced abortions. And, though some men who post here absolutely hate the idea, if abortions were made illegal than I believe the father should be punished as well as the woman. I could go on but won't at this time.

 

[webdog]

Yes he is. To listen to Steaver, everything is about abortion. Traffic too heavy? Must be women going to get abortions clogging the highway. Coffee too cold? It's because there are not enough baristas since they were all aborted. Out of toilet paper? The abortionist are using all the resources "killing babies".

If I recall, Jesus said that Loving the Lord your God with all of your might is the most important, and the second is LIKE that...to love your neighbor as yourself. The love for God and His other created human life is THE topic that needs to be focused on. I see Steaver doing just that, and you guys caring more about yourselves and foreign policy than this.

 

[dragonfly]

If I recall, Jesus said that Loving the Lord your God with all of your might is the most important, and the second is LIKE that...to love your neighbor as yourself. The love for God and His other created human life is THE topic that needs to be focused on. I see Steaver doing just that, and you guys caring more about yourselves and foreign policy than this.

I understand your position, I even respect it, but does everything on the BB political forum have to either be about Obama being the devil or abortion?

 

[steaver]

No I can't find such a verse, nor do I believe you or I can find a verse where Christ says it is not all right ... though I do not believe he would say it is all right if asked directly.
[/QUOTE

What would make you believe He would say it is not alright?

Now will you answer my questions:

1, Where does Christ say it is all right to kill your enemy? Where does he say it is right to go to war?

1a) Nowhere, so what does this mean then to you? You are not to kill your enemy? When your enemy breaks into your home and begins raping your children what will you do? Wait for 911 to show up?

1b) I know He ordered war in the OT, but if He does not say it is ok to go to war in the NT then what does this mean to you that He did not say to go to war? Are you not to go to war?

I believe the reason you presented the question was to prove that since Christ didn't say to go to war then it must mean Christ does not want you to go to war. Correct?

Then using your theology, since Christ did not tell us to pull unwanted children feet first from their mother's wombs and kill them then it must mean that Christ does not want us to pull unwanted children feet first from their mother's wombs and kill them . Correct?

2. How can anyone say they are a follower of Chist and go against his teaching on how we should treat others?

I agree. So how can anyone who says they follow Christ support candidates who declare they will support murder on demand of these children in the wombs?

Are you making an assumption that I am for abortion? I have never said I am for abortion. Just curious as so many here seem to jump to conclusions.

Are you for abortion? Are you against abortion? Or are you appathetic to the children being ripped to pieces until dead in the wombs?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[Crabtownboy]

What would make you believe He would say it is not alright?

Everything I see in his life and teachings.

1a) Nowhere, so what does this mean then to you? You are not to kill your enemy? When your enemy breaks into your home and begins raping your children what will you do? Wait for 911 to show up?

Defending oneself against an intruder is quite different from pre-emptive war as in Iraq. But I do not think fatal force is necessary in the case of an intruder.

1b) I know He ordered war in the OT, but if He does not say it is ok to go to war in the NT then what does this mean to you that He did not say to go to war? Are you not to go to war?

Yes, from all Christ said and by his example we are not to go to war. We are to live in such a Christ-like way that we will not be hated. This will be hard for some period of time because of our aggression the last number of years. We, our country, has been anything but peaceful.

I believe the reason you presented the question was to prove that since Christ didn't say to go to war then it must mean Christ does not want you to go to war. Correct?

Then using your theology, since Christ did not tell us to pull unwanted children feet first from their mother's wombs and kill them then it must mean that Christ does not want us to pull unwanted children feet first from their mother's wombs and kill them . Correct?

As I said, I have never said I am for abortion, I am against abortion in almost all cases. But it is not such a simple issue as I believe you make it out to be. For instance what to do if:

there is a genetic defect whereby the child will never be aware of anything, but may destroy the lives of the parents financally and emotionally?

in the instance of pregnancy from incest:

in the instance of rape?

I can argue with side of these arguments.

Also, if abortion is made illegal it will not mean abortions will end, just the more young women will die because of back room botched abortions, or attempts as self-abortion.

In your opinion, should the young woman be sentenced to jail for abortion?
What about the young man who put her in that situation?


God Bless! :thumbs:[/QUOTE]

 

[KeithS]

Yes, from all Christ said and by his example we are not to go to war. We are to live in such a Christ-like way that we will not be hated. This will be hard for some period of time because of our aggression the last number of years. We, our country, has been anything but peaceful.

Ummm...as I recall, Jesus said we would be hated if we live in a Christ-like way. Now we have a real conundrum.

Also, you must separate the national image the world has for Americans from individuals who may or may not be Christians. Not everyone in America are Christians nor do they act that way, nor can they be expected to act that way.

Finally, Jesus did not tell us to do a lot of things nor forbid us to do many things. That does not make them right nor wrong. Everything is not A or B. You apparently understand this to be the case in the abortion debate, but not the war debate. [Stepping back out to lurk.]

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Ummm...as I recall, Jesus said we would be hated if we live in a Christ-like way. Now we have a real conundrum.

Also, you must separate the national image the world has for Americans from individuals who may or may not be Christians. Not everyone in America are Christians nor do they act that way, nor can they be expected to act that way.

Finally, Jesus did not tell us to do a lot of things nor forbid us to do many things. That does not make them right nor wrong. Everything is not A or B. You apparently understand this to be the case in the abortion debate, but not the war debate. [Stepping back out to lurk.]

Insightful post, Keith. Also, I often see Christians claiming they are hated for following Christ, when in actuality, they are hated for being jerks. There is a difference.

 

[steaver]

I said, I have never said I am for abortion, I am against abortion in almost all cases. But it is not such a simple issue as I believe you make it out to be. For instance what to do if:

there is a genetic defect whereby the child will never be aware of anything, but may destroy the lives of the parents financally and emotionally?

in the instance of pregnancy from incest:

in the instance of rape?

I can argue with side of these arguments.

Also, if abortion is made illegal it will not mean abortions will end, just the more young women will die because of back room botched abortions, or attempts as self-abortion.

In your opinion, should the young woman be sentenced to jail for abortion?
What about the young man who put her in that situation?

"there is a genetic defect whereby the child will never be aware of anything, but may destroy the lives of the parents financally and emotionally?"

...or the child may be a rich spiritual blessing the Lord has for them to shine before a lost world. Let God decide.

"in the instance of pregnancy from incest:"

Incest was not forbidden until after many generations had been born. We now know the reason incest was forbidden by God after a certain point in time and that was because the gene pool was becoming more and more polluted and birth defects would become more common. Why should the child be condemned to death because of an incest? Let God decide.

"in the instance of rape?"

Why should the child be put to death because of another's crime? Let God decide.

"I can argue with side of these arguments. "

Give it your best argument!

"Also, if abortion is made illegal it will not mean abortions will end, just the more young women will die because of back room botched abortions, or attempts as self-abortion."

So let them get professional help to kill their children so they don't kill themselves?

"In your opinion, should the young woman be sentenced to jail for abortion?"

Yes, it is murder. A "doctor" can pull the child out by it's feet, careful not to let the head slip out or it will scream, kill it and that is just fine, no crime, no murder. A woman can give birth and throw the child in a dumpster so it will die and she gets charged with murder. Now isn't that just so logical?

"What about the young man who put her in that situation?"

Getting a woman pregnant is not a crime. If the young man forces her to murder the child then he is guilty as well.

God Bless! :thumbs: