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Seriously considering SATS...
- Thread starter Greektim
- Start date
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
SATS for a PhD? I don't know what SATS are in America, but here, they are Standard Assessment Tests given to schoolchildren in Years 2, 6 and 9 (approximate ages: 7, 11 and 14 respectively).
Greektim
Well-Known Member
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Thanks Greektim! I followed the link, clicked on their Statement of Faith, and it certainly looks good, but of course you need some reaction from someone who has studied there, rather than like me, just had a quick glance at a web site!
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Most would probably tell you, it depends what you plan on doing with the degree. Teach in college/seminary? Check where you would like to teach. Will they accept your education?
I am working on a MA from Whitefield Theological Seminary. It is not important to me that they are not regionally accredited. To others, it would be important.
I am working on a MA from Whitefield Theological Seminary. It is not important to me that they are not regionally accredited. To others, it would be important.
Tim Response
Hello Tim,
I hope you are well. I know of a few who have gotten their degrees at South African universities, among them are Dr. Dorothy Patterson and Dr. Ergun Caner. I also know of others who are trying to finish the degree at UNISA but, because it is so rigorous, they are having a hard time finishing after several years of work.
Those whose names are listed above have been used of the Lord and have academic credentials. But they have also been placed in their respective positions for obvious reasons. Reasons which we cannot and probably should not discuss in this particular venue.
It is my understanding that SATS has the same governmental accreditation as UNISA an the other SA universities.
I would warn you, however, to be very cautious about thinking that you can secure a teaching position with the SATS PhD at any university or seminary in America. You possibly could if indeed you were at the right place right time. But, you would probably and also need something that set you apart from the herd if you will: A well known writing career, a friend in high places, an expertise that they really needed, et al.
It can be done in God's sovereignty, but it would be tricky for sure. Why not just bite the bullit and go get the PhD in an American school. And even then it will be very difficult to find a job teaching if that is what you want to do?
My two cents worth! :smilewinkgrin:
Hello Tim,
I hope you are well. I know of a few who have gotten their degrees at South African universities, among them are Dr. Dorothy Patterson and Dr. Ergun Caner. I also know of others who are trying to finish the degree at UNISA but, because it is so rigorous, they are having a hard time finishing after several years of work.
Those whose names are listed above have been used of the Lord and have academic credentials. But they have also been placed in their respective positions for obvious reasons. Reasons which we cannot and probably should not discuss in this particular venue.
It is my understanding that SATS has the same governmental accreditation as UNISA an the other SA universities.
I would warn you, however, to be very cautious about thinking that you can secure a teaching position with the SATS PhD at any university or seminary in America. You possibly could if indeed you were at the right place right time. But, you would probably and also need something that set you apart from the herd if you will: A well known writing career, a friend in high places, an expertise that they really needed, et al.
It can be done in God's sovereignty, but it would be tricky for sure. Why not just bite the bullit and go get the PhD in an American school. And even then it will be very difficult to find a job teaching if that is what you want to do?
My two cents worth! :smilewinkgrin:
Greektim
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the perspective, Rhet. I have a heart for teaching, but more and more I see the "scholar" in the local church as a novelty. My true passion is for local church ministry and missions work. Thus there is an appeal to do a foreign PhD. I am hoping that it will open doors for missions work (training nationals and etc.) that would otherwise be closed. Do you think a SATS PhD would do that?
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Teaching in a college/seminary would be nice, but God has only called a limited number of those types of people. He has, however, called every believer to be about the Great Commission. I want to use my PhD for ministry purposes above all else (even teaching nationals overseas).
Tim,
Since you asked I will gladly give you my response.
I think that the PhD from SATS or UNISA or any other South African university would do you well. We all must remember just what we were told when first we went to get our BS/BA degree. You must earn the degree in the field where you want to work. I know that that is "old wisdom," but it wisdom nonetheless.
So with that having been said, the SATS PhD would be great for what you desire to do. I was just wanting you to be forewarned if you chose to do the other there may be some major "push-back." I would say, with what you want to do, "go for it!!!"
As our lovely Lord Christ brings you to mind I will pray his blessing on your endeavor for sure. I am sure you will be a faithful pastor-teacher of the Word of God and will teach for his glory alone. Amen!
"That is all!" :smilewinkgrin:
So long as you're not expecting to use it for a full time faculty position it is an okay degree. SATS is not greatly appreciated by many institutions because of the nature of the degree. I've posted here before about my concerns with the school and the reception of its degrees.
If you have the time I'd always say a residency PhD at a good stateside school is always better.
As for the names of alum noted above, once you get outside of the (respectively) tiny SBC fragment the degree isnt that notable. You'll notice that of the significant alumni in any list there is more to do with politics than scholarship. And after this business with Caner there is more disrepute than good tidings about SATS in the academic world right now.
On top of that I fully expect there to be far fewer humanities PhDs in the next 10 to 20 years than avialable right now. Additionally with colleges like Oxford and Cambridge rolling with lots of American students the SATS degree is not as attractive for a candidate imho.
Just some thoughts. Keep us updated about your progress!
If you have the time I'd always say a residency PhD at a good stateside school is always better.
As for the names of alum noted above, once you get outside of the (respectively) tiny SBC fragment the degree isnt that notable. You'll notice that of the significant alumni in any list there is more to do with politics than scholarship. And after this business with Caner there is more disrepute than good tidings about SATS in the academic world right now.
On top of that I fully expect there to be far fewer humanities PhDs in the next 10 to 20 years than avialable right now. Additionally with colleges like Oxford and Cambridge rolling with lots of American students the SATS degree is not as attractive for a candidate imho.
Just some thoughts. Keep us updated about your progress!
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Though Caner got his PhD at UNISA...
PhD or ThD
Did Dr. Caner get his PhD or his Thd (DTh) at Unisa?
"That is all!" :thumbs:
Did Dr. Caner get his PhD or his Thd (DTh) at Unisa?
"That is all!" :thumbs:
I did. But I did a BTh...a graduate and/or post-grad is a whole different story. I would not, personally, seek such degrees at SATS; NOT because of rigor (I believe SATS is VERY rigorous), but because they are not well known. If you are going for such degrees, you need a degree that is well known and respected by whatever body you will be dealing with in your profession. If churches in the SBC, you should go to one of the "Big Six." If you are going to be teaching at a Seminary, you need the top tier (but Biblical!) schools (DTS, WTS, RTS, SBTS). A PhD. from an unknown school, even a rigorous, biblical and accredited one, is virtually useless in a degree inundated environment.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Ok... he got his ThD from Uni of South Africa according to his Liberty bio. So hopefully he hasn't burned any bridges for others thinking about SATS
.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
From your perspective, how is SATS view throughout the rest of the world? If I was wanting to use this degree to get into various mission fields and so forth, would it help open doors?
That depends on where you are talking about. Seminaries in the U.S. know and respect them; they carry as much weight as other accredited U.S. Seminaries, from my experience.
In South Africa, they seem to be "The" Seminary...every major Bible or Preacher conference that I have personally seen advertisements for in South Africa, and surrounding areas, are either sponsored by or hosted by SATS. They have had some ENORMOUS conferences.
But as far as churches outside of SA, and missions agencies that do not have an ongoing work in SA, SATS is mostly just unknown...
Sats' grad programs
I recommend SATS!
Rigor: SATS' accreditation is the highest possible in South Africa. I think no other private school has the same accredited degrees in SA. I am not convinced that a thesis only master's is the best route, but SATS now offers coursework as well. I was in the EdD in Oregon State and the USA sort of THM at Western , the latter is perceived by some USA schools as doctoral level studies. I witness to all readers, before the Lord, that IMO the rigor I require in those dissertations, theses, and courses I supervise is the equal of any of the educational experiences I've been privileged to enjoy when completing grad programs in five accredited schools (Univ San Diego, Oregon State, Point Loma Nazarene, Western Seminary, and Unizul). I also witness that in my experience (formerally being in the doc program at one UA seminary oft discussed here, and one former TRACS accredited seminary) that SATS work in rigor far exceeds these! The SATS PhD format, as well some SA unis, is, of course, research only just as in some highly recognized schools in Britain. e.g. Lest this seems a short & easy route, be advised that it may take up to a year just to get a research proposal approved by the Grad Committee!! My Unizul work took four years, and that after completing the MA, MDiv work, and ThM in RA, USA, classroom sort of schools! The dean of the SATS grad programs is Sam Kunhiyop who has the ThM and PhD from RA, USA seminaries. He also, therefore, knows what grad ed should be! All SATS theses or dissertations must be evaluated by both SATS' and external professors!
General Usefulness: I only have a certain knowledge of the perceived usefulness of SATS to those students I supervise. One of of my PhD students is an administrator of a seminary in Ethiopia;he researches Incarnational Christology. Another, a Korean, trains native missionaries; he researches sanctification in Barth & Hauerwas. A third is a pastor in America- as is the only MTh thesis I supervise. I also supervise six courses in the MTh in Bible Studies, all three bridging courses[for those entering an MTh with only a secular BA], and one of the six new Honors B.Th. courses. There are a great variety of students enrolled in these in terms of purpose and locale. AS for this old man, my goal in theological education at Western and Unizul has always focused on understanding Scripture not on earning money. But I serve as a teacher of adults in a Conservative Baptist church, and you are invited to inquire as to the quality of that instruction: info@gbcsalem.org. I also served in the now defunct Salem teaching site of the TRACS accredited "Faith Seminary" under H. Wayne House with whom I also wrote a book. Any wishing to evaluate my SA learning is invited to read & comment on my three articles on Christology on the SATS online journal--Conspectus. So, I guess my own SA doc, gotten five years ago -at 65 years old- has served me sufficiently well.
I invite any interested party to write either to me : dedirectorfaithseminarysalem@comcast.net or to SATS directly.
I recommend SATS!
Rigor: SATS' accreditation is the highest possible in South Africa. I think no other private school has the same accredited degrees in SA. I am not convinced that a thesis only master's is the best route, but SATS now offers coursework as well. I was in the EdD in Oregon State and the USA sort of THM at Western , the latter is perceived by some USA schools as doctoral level studies. I witness to all readers, before the Lord, that IMO the rigor I require in those dissertations, theses, and courses I supervise is the equal of any of the educational experiences I've been privileged to enjoy when completing grad programs in five accredited schools (Univ San Diego, Oregon State, Point Loma Nazarene, Western Seminary, and Unizul). I also witness that in my experience (formerally being in the doc program at one UA seminary oft discussed here, and one former TRACS accredited seminary) that SATS work in rigor far exceeds these! The SATS PhD format, as well some SA unis, is, of course, research only just as in some highly recognized schools in Britain. e.g. Lest this seems a short & easy route, be advised that it may take up to a year just to get a research proposal approved by the Grad Committee!! My Unizul work took four years, and that after completing the MA, MDiv work, and ThM in RA, USA, classroom sort of schools! The dean of the SATS grad programs is Sam Kunhiyop who has the ThM and PhD from RA, USA seminaries. He also, therefore, knows what grad ed should be! All SATS theses or dissertations must be evaluated by both SATS' and external professors!
General Usefulness: I only have a certain knowledge of the perceived usefulness of SATS to those students I supervise. One of of my PhD students is an administrator of a seminary in Ethiopia;he researches Incarnational Christology. Another, a Korean, trains native missionaries; he researches sanctification in Barth & Hauerwas. A third is a pastor in America- as is the only MTh thesis I supervise. I also supervise six courses in the MTh in Bible Studies, all three bridging courses[for those entering an MTh with only a secular BA], and one of the six new Honors B.Th. courses. There are a great variety of students enrolled in these in terms of purpose and locale. AS for this old man, my goal in theological education at Western and Unizul has always focused on understanding Scripture not on earning money. But I serve as a teacher of adults in a Conservative Baptist church, and you are invited to inquire as to the quality of that instruction: info@gbcsalem.org. I also served in the now defunct Salem teaching site of the TRACS accredited "Faith Seminary" under H. Wayne House with whom I also wrote a book. Any wishing to evaluate my SA learning is invited to read & comment on my three articles on Christology on the SATS online journal--Conspectus. So, I guess my own SA doc, gotten five years ago -at 65 years old- has served me sufficiently well.
I invite any interested party to write either to me : dedirectorfaithseminarysalem@comcast.net or to SATS directly.
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