Seventh Day Adv.

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

It's very easy to generalise especially when insulting. But to put the hand in own bosom is another matter.

There is very clearly two main divisions within Christianity which have ALWAYS been there and which demarcate error and truth.

The first is free will over against free grace which two opposing things as far as I am concerned characterise the beast and the doctrine of the beast over against the true Body of Christ's Own and the doctrine of the true Body of Christ's Own.

The second is Sunday worship over against Sabbaths' worship which two opposing things characterise the beast and the doctrine of the beast WITHIN the true Body of Christ's Own and WITHIN the doctrine of the true Body of Christ's Own.

 

[steaver]

It's very easy to generalise especially when insulting. But to put the hand in own bosom is another matter.

There is very clearly two main divisions within Christianity which have ALWAYS been there and which demarcate error and truth.

The first is free will over against free grace which two opposing things as far as I am concerned characterise the beast and the doctrine of the beast over against the true Body of Christ's Own and the doctrine of the true Body of Christ's Own.

The second is Sunday worship over against Sabbaths' worship which two opposing things characterise the beast and the doctrine of the beast WITHIN the true Body of Christ's Own and WITHIN the doctrine of the true Body of Christ's Own.

I gotta tell ya brother, sounds like a zen riddle to me, lol. No disrespect intended. I just aint got a clue what you just said. Over my head I guess :tongue3:

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Mortal enemies?!

You must be joking.

The SDAs are in cahoots with RCism on many things and on most important issues.

What is most tragic is that the Sabbath of the LORD GOD is ALWAYS seen and treated as the Day of Worship-Rest of the Seventh-day Adventist 'church', virtually as belonging to them ... exclusively! Which is EXACTLY WHAT BOTH THE SDAs and the RCs WANT and mutually APPROVED AND AGREED UPON.

Also on the BASIS for the Seventh Day Sabbath's 'remembrance', namely: THE LAW, THE LAW, THE LAW AND NEVER BUT NEVER FOR ITS CHRISTIAN REASON-FOR-BEING, namely: the Resurrection from the dead of Jesus Christ, "ON THE SABBATH DAY".

What a pity!

Thus it will stay the status quo until Christ comes again.

No, not joking. Are you not aware that the SDA believe Rome and the papacy to be the antichrist?

 

[Yeshua1]

It's very easy to generalise especially when insulting. But to put the hand in own bosom is another matter.

There is very clearly two main divisions within Christianity which have ALWAYS been there and which demarcate error and truth.

The first is free will over against free grace which two opposing things as far as I am concerned characterise the beast and the doctrine of the beast over against the true Body of Christ's Own and the doctrine of the true Body of Christ's Own.

The second is Sunday worship over against Sabbaths' worship which two opposing things characterise the beast and the doctrine of the beast WITHIN the true Body of Christ's Own and WITHIN the doctrine of the true Body of Christ's Own.

Do you hold that those who hold to Sunday worship , and do NOT see the sabbath as applying to the church are taking the "mark of the beast?"

 

[BobRyan]

Recently saw an Advent preacher on the web and had a sound message which made me ask the question; other then holding Ellen Whites Writtings in too high esteem. Are they doctrinally sound?

Hey! I can't believe - I just came by for a visit and voila! The Seventh-day Adventist thread is starting up!

With me being absent the last few years I thought the topic might have died out.

So in answer to the OP - I say without doubt - SDAs are Christians - of the highest order! :thumbsup:

:godisgood:

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

(To GE) No, not joking. Are you not aware that the SDA believe Rome and the papacy to be the antichrist?

Even GE is still here with his jokes!

The more things change - the more they stay the same!

Nice to see all the group still together.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

So in answer to the OP - I say without doubt - SDAs are Christians - of the highest order! :thumbsup:

:godisgood:

in Christ,

Bob

And I see SDAs still believe they are more special than all the rest of us :smilewinkgrin:

I thought the scripture states the most humble are of the highest order?

Good to hear from your BobRyan! :thumbsup:

 

[BobRyan]

Steve - good to be back. :1_grouphug:

And yes you are right about humility being a virtue.

I never claimed to be perfect. :saint:

But the opening post seemed to invite that little excess and indulgence on my part -. I should have done better.

But in all fairness to me - I never claimed that non-SDAs cannot also be saints.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

And SDA denies that we are saved by gave alone, thru faith alone, as MUST hold to their sabbath views, hold to prophetess White, and hold to good works needed to avoid investigative judgement of God!

So meets the test for a bible cult, as do mormons/JW!

First of all - does anyone else have the problem of a massively wide screen when you try to reply to a post on the BaptistBoard? Is there some trick to getting this back to normal on this web site? :BangHead:

Now back to the movie. :type:

While it is true that SDAs hold to Bible doctrine that others do not - it is not true that all Christian groups agree on all points of doctrine.

Infant baptism - SDAs reject it while Presbyterians and Methodists and others accept.

Conversion - you cannot be saved unless you are a believer who accepts salvation - a magical rite that confers the salvation status on you as an infant is not even close to the Gospel act of accepting salvation.

Sunday is the first day of the week. The Ten commandments apply to all Christians - yes even the 4th commandment.

This is a position held to by Andy Stanley, Charles Stanley, R. C. Sproul, D.L. Moody and SDAs and even Roman Catholics. It would be incorrect to imagine that only SDAs know about these Bible facts and accept them.

We agree with them that when Paul says "What matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19 - he is telling the truth.

Where we differ with the Stanleys, and Moody and Sproul - is in our insistence that the Mark 7 principle of not allowing man made tradition to edit/bend/change Bible doctrine applies even to God's 4th Commandment.

Isaiah 66 says that from "one Sabbath to another" - in the New heavens and New earth "shall all mankind come before ME to worship". For as Christ said in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind" - and sure enough in Genesis - 2:1-3 we see the Sabbath "made" Holy, Sanctified, Set apart.

And we agree with a great many charismatic Christian groups that spiritual gifts are still valid. We simply do not agree with them that their version of speaking in tongues is legit - nor have I seen them demonstrate a legit gift of prophecy.

And almost all Christians agree with the 2Cor 5:10 point that "We must ALL stand before the JUDGMENT seat of Christ to give an account for the deeds done in the body whether they be good or bad".

And almost all non-SDA Bible students agree with us on the point that the statement "TO be absent from the body IS TO BE present with the Lord" is not found in all of scripture - no not even in 2Cor 5.

So here we have "the details" that must be looked at when making some of the sweeping claims.

Not claiming that there are no difference - just claiming that to evaluate the difference you need to take a more serious and detailed view of the Bible truths in question - sweeping generalizations don't work.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

First of all - does anyone else have the problem of a massively wide screen when you try to reply to a post on the BaptistBoard? Is there some trick to getting this back to normal on this web site? :BangHead:

Now back to the movie. :type:

While it is true that SDAs hold to Bible doctrine that others do not - it is not true that all Christian groups agree on all points of doctrine.

Infant baptism - SDAs reject it while Presbyterians and Methodists and others accept.

Conversion - you cannot be saved unless you are a believer who accepts salvation - a magical rite that confers the salvation status on you as an infant is not even close to the Gospel act of accepting salvation.

Sunday is the first day of the week. The Ten commandments apply to all Christians - yes even the 4th commandment.

This is a position held to by Andy Stanley, Charles Stanley, R. C. Sproul, D.L. Moody and SDAs and even Roman Catholics. It would be incorrect to imagine that only SDAs know about these Bible facts and accept them.

We agree with them that when Paul says "What matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19 - he is telling the truth.

Where we differ with the Stanleys, and Moody and Sproul - is in our insistence that the Mark 7 principle of not allowing man made tradition to edit/bend/change Bible doctrine applies even to God's 4th Commandment.

Isaiah 66 says that from "one Sabbath to another" - in the New heavens and New earth "shall all mankind come before ME to worship". For as Christ said in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind" - and sure enough in Genesis - 2:1-3 we see the Sabbath "made" Holy, Sanctified, Set apart.

And we agree with a great many charismatic Christian groups that spiritual gifts are still valid. We simply do not agree with them that their version of speaking in tongues is legit - nor have I seen them demonstrate a legit gift of prophecy.

And almost all Christians agree with the 2Cor 5:10 point that "We must ALL stand before the JUDGMENT seat of Christ to give an account for the deeds done in the body whether they be good or bad".

And almost all non-SDA Bible students agree with us on the point that the statement "TO be absent from the body IS TO BE present with the Lord" is not found in all of scripture - no not even in 2Cor 5.

So here we have "the details" that must be looked at when making some of the sweeping claims.

Not claiming that there are no difference - just claiming that to evaluate the difference you need to take a more serious and detailed view of the Bible truths in question - sweeping generalizations don't work.

in Christ,

Bob

SDA officially hold to their prophetess speaking forth for God...

her sayings valid/equal to the bible, as she "properily" interpreted them to us...

SDA makes keeping the sabbath and other Old Covenant rules binding to all today under the new...

deny that there is salvation thru faith alone, grace alone, as mix faith with must keepSabbath, honor Ellen White, bust uphold the law rules etc

pretty much same boat the catholic church sits in, saved amiong them, but the church itself is NOT of God!

 

[BobRyan]

SDA officially hold to their prophetess speaking forth for God...

To be more precise - SDAs believe this statement in 2Peter 1:19-20 that prophecy is defined as "holy men of old moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" and thus is not a matter of one person's interpretation.

That is how the mechanism works that we see as a gift to the church in 1Cor 12 and 1Cor 14:1.

Whether or not a given person is a prophet - depends on whether they pass the Bible test of a prophet.

SDA makes keeping the sabbath and other Old Covenant rules binding to all today under the new...

To be more precise - SDAs claim that the Ten Commandments are binding on all mankind - and as Romans 3 says all the world is under condemnation - as sinners by that moral law. And that under the New Covenant that same moral law of the TEN commandments is the law of God written on the heart and mind according to Heb 8.

Who else believes that? D.L. Moody, R.C. Sproul, Andy Stanely, CH Spurgeon and others.

pretty much same boat the catholic church sits in

It will be hard for many of us to class those men listed above as "in the boat that the Catholic Church sits in" - but I am not saying you do not have the free will to do it if you wish.

And as noted before --


In Eph 6:2 Paul says that we are bound by the 5th commandment and that in the Ten Commandment unit it is "the first commandment with a promise".

In Mark 7:13 Christ refers to the Ten Commandments as the "Word of God".

1Cor 7:19 Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God".

Rev 14:12 says that the saints are those who "Keep the Commandments of God".

John 14:14 "If you Love Me keep my Commandments". (As we see in Ex 20:6 -- the second of the Ten Commandments)

1John 5:2 "Love God and Keep His Commandments"

It begins to add up to the point that Andy Stanley, R.C Sproul, D.L Moody, John Wesley and others are making on that point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Alive in Christ]

(((BOB RYAN)))!!!

Goodness, where have you been?? you sorta just disapeared. I actually hunted around on the boards a few times asking where you went, hoping that you were not sick...or WORSE, if you get my drift.

Anyway...welcolme back!

 

[BobRyan]

(((BOB RYAN)))!!!

Goodness, where have you been?? you sorta just disapeared. I actually hunted around on the boards a few times asking where you went, hoping that you were not sick...or WORSE, if you get my drift.

Anyway...welcolme back!

Thanks ! :wavey:

The news of my demise was greatly exaggerated. :laugh:

I got "called away" around 2010 because of an evolution vs creation controversy that was brewing "close to home" at one of our Universities.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I gotta tell ya brother, sounds like a zen riddle to me, lol. No disrespect intended. I just aint got a clue what you just said. Over my head I guess :tongue3:

It's not since yesterday that you read my stuff, Steaver. You understand me just too well. If you can understand the individual words I used, you must understand the sentences I wrote. 'No disrespect intended' I believe you, though intended disregard comes from disrespect deny how you will.

I don't mind; understand me right. I feel sultsch whether people respect or disrespect me. I only want to leave what I said / wrote with them forever WHETHER THEY REGARDED AND READ IT OR DISREGARDED IT AND DID NOT READ IT.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

That counts especially for Bob Ryan.

 

[BobRyan]

Well if one thing is true - I know it is that Bob Ryan loves to be counted! thanks for counting me in.:wavey:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

"Blessed the man who walks not in the councel of the ungodly, nor stands on the way of sinners, nor sits in the circle of the scornful..." sharing jokes with them.

Laugh therefore, thou son of man till the severing asunder of the bones of thy loins; laugh to resentful eyes' delight--but I deliver unto you THE MOST IMPORTANT, that which I also received from the Scriptures:

"HOW THAT CHRIST

"THE VERY FIRST DAY THEY REMOVED LEAVEN AND KILLED THE PASSOVER…", “…DIED FOR OUR SINS ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES”;

"HOW THAT CHRIST

“"THIS THAT BONE-DAY…", "THAT DAY The Preparation … that is The Fore-Sabbath … mid-afternoon towards the Sabbath Day…" “…WAS BURIED”;

"HOW THAT CHRIST

“ROSE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES”;

"AND THAT THEREFORE—BECAUSE JESUS HAD GIVEN THEM REST—A CHRISTIAN SABBATISM REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD."

These are the truthful facts that for some are “jokes”, jokes that like chaff are blown away by the wind of their self-inflated minds.

 

[Yeshua1]

To be more precise - SDAs believe this statement in 2Peter 1:19-20 that prophecy is defined as "holy men of old moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" and thus is not a matter of one person's interpretation.

That is how the mechanism works that we see as a gift to the church in 1Cor 12 and 1Cor 14:1.

Whether or not a given person is a prophet - depends on whether they pass the Bible test of a prophet.


To be more precise - SDAs claim that the Ten Commandments are binding on all mankind - and as Romans 3 says all the world is under condemnation - as sinners by that moral law. And that under the New Covenant that same moral law of the TEN commandments is the law of God written on the heart and mind according to Heb 8.

Who else believes that? D.L. Moody, R.C. Sproul, Andy Stanely, CH Spurgeon and others.


It will be hard for many of us to class those men listed above as "in the boat that the Catholic Church sits in" - but I am not saying you do not have the free will to do it if you wish.

And as noted before --


In Eph 6:2 Paul says that we are bound by the 5th commandment and that in the Ten Commandment unit it is "the first commandment with a promise".

In Mark 7:13 Christ refers to the Ten Commandments as the "Word of God".

1Cor 7:19 Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God".

Rev 14:12 says that the saints are those who "Keep the Commandments of God".

John 14:14 "If you Love Me keep my Commandments". (As we see in Ex 20:6 -- the second of the Ten Commandments)

1John 5:2 "Love God and Keep His Commandments"

It begins to add up to the point that Andy Stanley, R.C Sproul, D.L Moody, John Wesley and others are making on that point.

in Christ,

Bob

the SDA prophetess FAILED the test to be One of God, for her teachings she 'received" not according to the revealed word of god!

Do you hold her to had been one?

And NNE who holds to the 10 commandments binding to us today well bring in the saturday sabbath, as THAt one was to israel soecifically, and NOT brought into the NT by the Apostles!

Do you still consider Sunday worship taking mark of the beast, or that the SDA is the remant true church?

And that salvation is done by partially Grace, but also must observe the sabath, and hold to ALL of prohetess Whites teachings?

 

[steaver]

Do you still consider Sunday worship taking mark of the beast, or that the SDA is the remant true church?

And that salvation is done by partially Grace, but also must observe the sabath, and hold to ALL of prohetess Whites teachings?

The SDA has "evolved" so to speak from their original hardline stance on such issues as you have raised here. Now they say that EGW is only a prophet for their particular church organization, all do not have to accept her as a prophet, those who see this "truth" will join their church. They also now say that Sabbath worship is not necessarily a must do to be a true Christian, but rather not all Christians have received the knowledge of this "truth" from God and thus will not be held responsible for any ignorance. I once watched a SDA preacher on tv give an alter invitation for anyone who wanted to come forward and receive the gift of knowledge concerning the Sabbath.

The internet has caused the SDA to repackage their ideologies. The www has shown the light on groups such as these and has really exposed much error which most people prior to the internet didn't know existed. When I first began debating SDA sites in the 90's, they were still adamant about such doctrines as Sunday worshippers, pork eaters and anti-EGW Christians going to hell. Now, not more than a decade later, they redefined their doctrines in their rhetoric so that they may be more inclusive and not seen as heretical Christians, wanting to gain acceptance in the world as a legitimate Christian denomination. I believe they quickly realized their positions on doctrine was going to destroy their organization so they did a massive campaign to "explain" their positions that they may not be seen as condemning the Christian world which did not agree with their prophet. The RCC has done much of the same, they redefine such things as what they once written and believed about "faith alone" as to make it now not condemn Christians who are not RCC, but when it was first written, it was enforced as condemnation to all who did believe in faith alone.

 

[Yeshua1]

The SDA has "evolved" so to speak from their original hardline stance on such issues as you have raised here. Now they say that EGW is only a prophet for their particular church organization, all do not have to accept her as a prophet, those who see this "truth" will join their church. They also now say that Sabbath worship is not necessarily a must do to be a true Christian, but rather not all Christians have received the knowledge of this "truth" from God and thus will not be held responsible for any ignorance. I once watched a SDA preacher on tv give an alter invitation for anyone who wanted to come forward and receive the gift of knowledge concerning the Sabbath.

The internet has caused the SDA to repackage their ideologies. The www has shown the light on groups such as these and has really exposed much error which most people prior to the internet didn't know existed. When I first began debating SDA sites in the 90's, they were still adamant about such doctrines as Sunday worshippers, pork eaters and anti-EGW Christians going to hell. Now, not more than a decade later, they redefined their doctrines in their rhetoric so that they may be more inclusive and not seen as heretical Christians, wanting to gain acceptance in the world as a legitimate Christian denomination. I believe they quickly realized their positions on doctrine was going to destroy their organization so they did a massive campaign to "explain" their positions that they may not be seen as condemning the Christian world which did not agree with their prophet. The RCC has done much of the same, they redefine such things as what they once written and believed about "faith alone" as to make it now not condemn Christians who are not RCC, but when it was first written, it was enforced as condemnation to all who did believe in faith alone.

problem is that the prophetess failed the scripture test though!

And the SDA is falling back to the catholic position that thsoe who what they official teach and refuse to believe it are under judgement, but God wille xcuse ignorance!

And sabbath and law keeping still in full force, so while they might 'repackage themselves' still, just as the catholic church. preach another gospel!