Seventh-day Adventists. Fifth largest Christian denomination World Wide

[BobRyan]

I believe that the core Baptist traditions are most closely in line with Biblical teaching than, say Catholicism. I also believe, though, that the saved of every denomination will reach Glory with God and we'll realize, if it were possible, just how much we had missed doctrinally speaking.

Certainly I agree with that to a point but have you considered 2Thess 2?

The knife-edge separation between truth and error will be very close indeed and no margin for error. God is building "The ark of truth" - for this last destruction of the world and separating ourselves from error will not be optional at some point in the future.


2Thess 2
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God

..8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth,


Matt 24
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect


Rev 13
12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

 

[DHK]

The SDA's have nothing compared to evangelical Christianity in China.

In China, a church-state showdown of biblical proportions
Christianity is booming in China, propelling it toward becoming the world's largest Christian nation. But as religion grows, it spurs a government crackdown.

This is a fascinating article. Read it here:
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/china-church-state-showdown-biblical-proportions-172713834.html

The rise in evangelical Protestantism in particular, driven both by people’s spiritual yearnings and individual human needs in a collective society, is taking place in nearly every part of the nation.

I don't believe this includes the SDA.

 

[BobRyan]

This 7000 member SDA church began with 9 members in 1985.

http://news.adventist.org/all-news/...elievers-display-spirit-of-service-sacrifice/

7000 member Beigwan Adventist church in China. The church started with 9 members in 1985 and now has 7,000 members with 117 satellite churches

So I would not argue that "nothing" is happening there.

 

[DHK]

This 7000 member SDA church began with 9 members in 1985.

http://news.adventist.org/all-news/...elievers-display-spirit-of-service-sacrifice/

7000 member Beigwan Adventist church in China. The church started with 9 members in 1985 and now has 7,000 members with 117 satellite churches

So I would not argue that "nothing" is happening there.

Perhaps not "nothing," but in comparison:

Last summer, China’s religious affairs chief said that 500,000 Christians are baptized each year in the country. A joint study between Baylor University in Waco, Texas, and Peking University in Beijing estimated that there are now 70 million Christians over age 16 in China. Communist Party membership is about 83 million.
Even so, no precise numbers exist for the total number of worshipers. Chinese government statistics put the rise in Protestants in the official churches at 800,000 in 1979, 3 million in 1982, 10 million in 1995, and 15 million in 1999. There the accounting stops.

 

[BobRyan]

And here I was thinking there are over 2 billion christians

 

[Bro. James]

Dumb observation: the largest(hundreds of millions) so-called Christian religious system is the remnant of the cult of Nimrod. Most religions follow men/women, not Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Now what?

See Mt. 7:21-23.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[BobRyan]

Now what?

Now #17

A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in that other thread #1

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others
Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.[/FONT]

 

[Bro. James]

The point is: even though the majority rules, kind of in some circles, they are seldom right--especially in the world of religion. Man has done a remarkable job of getting it wrong. See the adventures of Cain and Nimrod. Cain changed the sacrifice. Nimrod fathered the pagan idolatry which permeates the present world of Christendom.

All statistical gyrations notwithstanding: 99.99% of religions, past and present, are man/woman created. Antiquity and size have nothing to do with verity.

See John 3:1-21. A master of religion did not understand: ye must be born again. The religious world is still choking on that one.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Salty]

Now what?

"Baptist Confession of Faith"

Please provide a link for the (so-called) "Baptist Confession of Faith"

 

[BobRyan]

Please provide a link for the (so-called) "Baptist Confession of Faith"

"so called"???

Which one do you want - 1689 or Spurgeon's done in the mid 1800's??

Unrevised from 1689

Links that remain as of today
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc01.html
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc19.html


Links that have been removed
http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm
http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm#Ch19

============================================================

[FONT=&quot]As revised by Spurgeon 1855[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part19[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

From that post above - here is that same section 19 -- as it was before Spurgeon edited it.

Chapter 19: Of the Law of God

1._____ God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart, and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.
( Genesis 1:27; Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 10:5; Galatians 3:10, 12 )

2._____ The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables, the four first containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
( Romans 2:14, 15; Deuteronomy 10:4 )


3._____ Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties, all which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of reformation, are, by Jesus Christ the true Messiah and only law-giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end abrogated and taken away.
( Hebrews 10:1; Colossians 2:17; 1 Corinthians 5:7; Colossians 2:14, 16, 17; Ephesians 2:14, 16 )

4._____ To them also he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any now by virtue of that institution; their general equity only being of moral use.
( 1 Corinthians 9:8-10 )


5._____ The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it; neither doth Christ in the Gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
( Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8, 10-12; James 2:10, 11; Matthew 5:17-19; Romans 3:31 )


6._____ Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, in that as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts, and lives, so as examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against, sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ and the perfection of his obedience; it is likewise of use to the regenerate to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin; and the threatenings of it serve to shew what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse and unallayed rigour thereof. The promises of it likewise shew them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, though not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works; so as man's doing good and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law and not under grace.
( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16; Romans 8:1; Romans 10:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7, etc; Romans 6:12-14; 1 Peter 3:8-13 )


7._____ Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it, the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully which the will of God, revealed in the law, requireth to be done.
( Galatians 3:21; Ezekiel 36:27 )

 

[Salty]

Please provide a link for the (so-called) "Baptist Confession of Faith"

Which one do you want

I did NOT ask for "a" Baptist COF
I asked for "The" Baptist COF
There is a difference.

BTW, have you read the Southern Baptist Convention "Baptist Faith and Message"?

 

[BobRyan]

Please provide a link for the (so-called) "Baptist Confession of Faith"

"so called"???

Which one do you want - 1689 or Spurgeon's done in the mid 1800's??

Unrevised from 1689

Links that remain as of today
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc01.html
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc19.html


Links that have been removed
http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm
http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm#Ch19

============================================================

[FONT=&quot]As revised by Spurgeon 1855[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part19[/FONT]

I did NOT ask for "a" Baptist COF
I asked for "The" Baptist COF
There is a difference.

I did not give you "A Baptist Confession of Faith" I gave you what Baptists call the "Baptist Confession of Faith". (I don't tell them what to name things. )

But you want something called "THE Baptist Confession of Faith" even though you did not put that in the quote above where you only put in quotes "Baptist Confession of Faith".

So then... "word games"??

Recall that my purpose is not to argue that people need to be Baptist or that they need to believe the "Baptist Confession of Faith". My point is that the 7 point list that they affirm - along with the majority of other pro-sunday scholarship - leaves the point in the light of day that says "SDAs are NOT the only Christian group to notice these Bible details about the Ten Commandments".

That point has never been controverted.

BTW, have you read the Southern Baptist Convention "Baptist Faith and Message"?

I have the book - but I have not read all of it.

The year 2000 slimmed down version appears to have only a bare "sliver of the content" found in Spurgeon's "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith".

http://www.sbc.net/bfm2000/bfm2000.asp


in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I don't claim that people who keep Sunday cannot go to heaven nor do I teach that Catholics cannot go to heaven. There are saints in all denominations.

Please exempt me from such <saints> as are going to go to <heaven>, thanks.

 

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Salty
BTW, have you read the Southern Baptist Convention "Baptist Faith and Message"?


I have the book - but I have not read all of it.

http://www.sbc.net/bfm2000/bfm2000.asp

then read it ! And see what it says about the day of worship.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

then read it ! And see what it says about the day of worship.

No <book> other than the WHOLE Bible and ONLY the Bible is of any interest in the 'matter' about "the Sabbath of the LORD GOD".

... which is "the Sabbath of the LORD GOD" in the Old Testament for NO other reason than it is "the Lord's Day" in the New Testament, viz., That He -- Christ -- "IN IT TRIUMPHED" --- "triumphed" ... over "the last enemy : DEATH" --- triumphed over death through RESURRECTION from the dead and in death's relinquishment : "ON THE SABBATH DAY".

The only difference between the Sabbath in the Old and New Testaments, is its FULFILLMENT through JESUS CHRIST "in FULLNESS OF THE SABBATH DAY when behold, the angel of the LORD : VICTOR, cast the stone from the grave and SAT on it" ... "while GOD raised Christ from the dead and SET HIM AT HIS OWN RIGHT HAND IN HIS HEAVENLY MAJESTY OF LORDSHIP FAR ABOVE ... ALL THE WORKS OF GOD".

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Recall that my purpose is not to argue that people need to be Baptist or that they need to believe the "Baptist Confession of Faith". My point is that the 7 point list that they affirm - along with the majority of other pro-sunday scholarship - leaves the point in the light of day that says "SDAs are NOT the only Christian group to notice these Bible details about the Ten Commandments".


That point meanwhile has never been of any relevance whatsoever "since JESUS gave them rest having entered into his own rest as God in his own", and "GOD, thus concerning the day The Seventh Day HAVING SPOKEN”.
“God having spoken … BY THE SON ... in these last days ... TO US".
“God thus concerning the day The Seventh Day having spoken” : "us toward who believe”.
“God thus concerning the day The Seventh Day having spoken”, “so that the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints”, may be “KNOWN” and “UNDERSTOOD”! Epesians 1:18 Hebrews 1:2; 4:4; 10.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Seventh-day Adventism has done more harm to the Bible-truth of the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD in its short lifetime, than the papal system during its whole history has been able to do.

 

[BobRyan]

The "BAPTIST Confession of Faith" that Salty asked to have the reference for --

From that post above - here is that same section 19 -- as it was before Spurgeon edited it.

Chapter 19: Of the Law of God

1._____ God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart, and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.
( Genesis 1:27; Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 10:5; Galatians 3:10, 12 )

2._____ The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables, the four first containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
( Romans 2:14, 15; Deuteronomy 10:4 )


3._____ Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties, all which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of reformation, are, by Jesus Christ the true Messiah and only law-giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end abrogated and taken away.
( Hebrews 10:1; Colossians 2:17; 1 Corinthians 5:7; Colossians 2:14, 16, 17; Ephesians 2:14, 16 )

4._____ To them also he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any now by virtue of that institution; their general equity only being of moral use.
( 1 Corinthians 9:8-10 )


5._____ The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it; neither doth Christ in the Gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
( Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8, 10-12; James 2:10, 11; Matthew 5:17-19; Romans 3:31 )


6._____ Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, in that as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts, and lives, so as examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against, sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ and the perfection of his obedience; it is likewise of use to the regenerate to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin; and the threatenings of it serve to shew what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse and unallayed rigour thereof. The promises of it likewise shew them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, though not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works; so as man's doing good and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law and not under grace.
( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16; Romans 8:1; Romans 10:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7, etc; Romans 6:12-14; 1 Peter 3:8-13 )


7._____ Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it, the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully which the will of God, revealed in the law, requireth to be done.
( Galatians 3:21; Ezekiel 36:27 )

then read it ! And see what it says about the day of worship.

So then you agree with section 19 above??

 

[BobRyan]

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.


An "example" of a small list of those pro-sunday groups affirming ALL 7.




"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others
Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.[/FONT]