Seventh-day Adventists. Fifth largest Christian denomination World Wide

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ag, shame!

Counting your marbles starting with the ghoen or the glass won't increase the number or the size. [In US informal English, ‘sass’, ‘impudence’.]

 

[Salty]

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.


An "example" of a small list of those pro-sunday groups affirming ALL 7.




"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others
Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.

Must have misread the title - I thought this was aobut the SDA being the 5th largest.....

 

[OldRegular]

If "I were a baptist" I might read that article and say to myself "Hmmm - we have been using name calling and vitriol for so long with some of those who differ with us and it just does not work... maybe we should switch to using Bible study".

Or something like that.

In the 70's I believe there was an article published stating that Southern Baptists were near the top at around 14 million and SDAs were around 4 million.

Why not "improve" the level of discourse instead of assuming that "a little more vitriol today and then... everyone becomes Baptist".

There is only so much posting along the lines of "well I will not have a good answer for that text - but I do have a lot of emotion and sincerity and down right enthusiasm for my POV" -- before it starts to look Catholic in some respects.

The Protestant Reformation was pretty adamant about a sola scriptura test even if it meant leaving some of their long-held traditions behind them.

in Christ,

Bob

SDA sure can't be Sola Scripture. They may be sola Ms. White with her 50,000 pages of new revelation!

 

[BobRyan]

The point is: even though the majority rules, kind of in some circles, they are seldom right--especially in the world of religion. Man has done a remarkable job of getting it wrong. See the adventures of Cain and Nimrod. Cain changed the sacrifice. Nimrod fathered the pagan idolatry which permeates the present world of Christendom.

All statistical gyrations notwithstanding: 99.99% of religions, past and present, are man/woman created. Antiquity and size have nothing to do with verity.

See John 3:1-21. A master of religion did not understand: ye must be born again. The religious world is still choking on that one.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Indeed - nobody is saved "by popular vote" -- still it is nice to see when there is agreement on certain obvious doctrinal points.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Must have misread the title - I thought this was aobut the SDA being the 5th largest.....

Are you timid regarding the 6 Bible points that SDAs share in common with the "Baptist Confession of Faith"???


================ came up this way on this thread --

Dumb observation: the largest(hundreds of millions) so-called Christian religious system is the remnant of the cult of Nimrod. Most religions follow men/women, not Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Now what?

See Mt. 7:21-23.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Now what?

Now #17

A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in that other thread #1

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others
Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.[/FONT]

Please provide a link for the (so-called) "Baptist Confession of Faith"

"so called"???

Which one do you want - 1689 or Spurgeon's done in the mid 1800's??

Unrevised from 1689

Links that remain as of today
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc01.html
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc19.html


Links that have been removed
http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm
http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm#Ch19

============================================================

[FONT=&quot]As revised by Spurgeon 1855[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part19[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

No offense, Bob, but I can pretty much guarantee you that "improving the level of discourse" between our faiths, while it might accomplish some level of social change, will gain us nothing spiritually.

While us Baptists may often disagree over doctrinal issues, we by and large hold to the same gospel. .

A closer reading of the C-V-A thread would correct that impression.

 

[Yeshua1]

Now what?

Now #17

A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in that other thread #1

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others
Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.[/FONT]

BIG difference is that NONE of them would claim that we MUST observe sabbath in order to be real Christian, as SDA does, and NONE of them would agree with SDA that God gave forth any additional revelations, as the SDA does say what happened with their prophetess!

You are REALLY distoting what they all held with!

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you timid regarding the 6 Bible points that SDAs share in common with the "Baptist Confession of Faith"???


================ came up this way on this thread --

There are some agreements that we have as baptists with catholics, so does that mean that we hold both to the same Gospel?

The Gospel of the Bible and of SDA TWO seperate things!

 

[BobRyan]

There are some agreements that we have as baptists with catholics, so does that mean that we hold both to the same Gospel?

That is true - and it is hard to find "the same Gospel" between some Baptist Arminians and some Baptist Calvinists - as the C-V-A board is demonstrating at this very moment.

 

[BobRyan]

BIG difference is that NONE of them would claim that we MUST observe sabbath in order to be real Christian, !

And do they agree with "this"???

[FONT=&quot]As revised by Spurgeon 1855[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part19[/FONT][/FONT]

================================================

Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- [FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it

==============================

 

[BobRyan]

BIG difference is that NONE of them would claim that we MUST observe sabbath in order to be real Christian, as SDA does, and NONE of them ...!

And does D.L. Moody say "this"??

==========================

D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT] __________________
==================================================

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

And does D.L. Moody say "this"??
I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

You know better than anyone else Moody meant,

'I believe that the Sunday question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up Sunday the church goes'.

He said <<the Sabbath question today>> --- <TODAY>!! His day--- in which there was no Seventh Day Sabbath question at all.

 

[BobRyan]

I think he meant this ---

=========================

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT]

==================================

I think Y1 posted this --

Originally Posted by Yeshua1
BIG difference is that NONE of them would claim that we MUST observe sabbath in order to be real Christian

And I think we all saw that.

 

[Yeshua1]

You do realise that he was speaking to honoring Sunday worship, and that the Confessions of the faith are NOT equal to scriptures, right?

 

[BobRyan]

They show that some Bible details are "sooo glaringly obvious" that BOTH sides of the debate admit to them. Hence the 6 of 7 points agreed to - as BOTH sides find them "in the Bible".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

This thread speaks to the growth of the Seventh-day Adventist church - but this point about the 7 point list is a great illustration of how that works. If all the response is "I refuse to see it ... you cannot make me comment on the facts" as the "best defense" -- well then..


That explains a lot.

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.


An "example" of a small list of those pro-sunday groups affirming ALL 7.




"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others
Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.

It would be wiser to take advantage of this opportunity and post insightful comments.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[The Biblicist]

Christianity Today -

"In 2014, for the 10th year in a row, more than 1 million people became Adventists, hitting a record 18.1 million members. Adventism is now the fifth-largest Christian communion worldwide, after Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and the Assemblies of God."

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...arson-church-stay-separatist.html?logout=true

in Christ,

Bob

I believe the number of Southern Baptists alone far exceeds 18.1 million not counting millions of other types of Baptists.

"Today, 46 million Baptists belong to churches cooperating with the Baptist World Alliance. Many Baptist groups, including the Southern Baptist Convention and the Baptist Bible Fellowship do not cooperate with the Alliance. Their number can add up to a total of close to 100 million adherents in the world through 211 denominations, making Baptists the largest Protestant denomination in the world."

 

[BobRyan]

I believe the number of Southern Baptists alone far exceeds 18.1 million not counting millions of other types of Baptists.

"Today, 46 million Baptists belong to churches cooperating with the Baptist World Alliance. Many Baptist groups, including the Southern Baptist Convention and the Baptist Bible Fellowship do not cooperate with the Alliance. Their number can add up to a total of close to 100 million adherents in the world through 211 denominations, making Baptists the largest Protestant denomination in the world."

Apparently - Your "belief" about the number of Southern Baptists does not fit with Christianity Today's actual count. There was a time in the 1980's however when the SDA count was around 4 million and the Southern Baptists were something like 14 million.

DHK has stated that his group of Baptists refuses to share communion with Southern Baptists - so not at all the same body in terms of doctrine.

And it is unclear that Free Will Baptists, Seventh-day Baptist, Southern Baptists all hold to the same set of doctrines.

I believe CT has the objective fact on this point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

What happened when David counted the nation?

Just as a reminder and warning….

In any case, Catholicism is coming for all of us non-Catholics— of Reformed or of its own faith indiscriminately. Being Arminians isn’t going to help any. God have mercy on us … the small in numbers and great in sins.

I’m so glad I’m not young anymore … no more flirtation with the woman in red; and no more frustration. We must make a hymn of that song, Maurice.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3

It has become the right time on BaptistBoard, in my own life, in the development of this issue, and in history, to tell you with the truest to truth word, Bob Ryan, THIS IS A LIE!

"The Sabbath was made"---and God "gave you the Sabbath" IN THE BEGINNING : AS MERCY AND NOT AS LAW!

AWAY WITH ANTI-CHRIST IN GENESIS!

Away with Seventh-day Adventism's stranglehold on God's truth and grace "ON THE SEVENTH DAY ... IN THE BEGINNING"!