Seventh-day Adventists. Fifth largest Christian denomination World Wide

[utilyan]

Well, there was the true church of Christ here before even the catholic church, correct?

Slap a date down Yeshua,

I want you to tell me, "look here in the year 120 are the Catholics begin, so before that there are no catholics"


Our faith was founded by The First Catholic JESUS CHRIST.


If your faith was not found by Jesus Christ, leave it.

If you are unsure, Pray to Jesus to give you the faith to assure the boldness of claiming unity with Christ.

The catholic claim is:

 

[Yeshua1]

Slap a date down Yeshua,

I want you to tell me, "look here in the year 120 are the Catholics begin, so before that there are no catholics"


Our faith was founded by The First Catholic JESUS CHRIST.


If your faith was not found by Jesus Christ, leave it.

If you are unsure, Pray to Jesus to give you the faith to assure the boldness of claiming unity with Christ.

The catholic claim is:

Jesus was NOT a Catholic, as there was no Christianity so called until he instituted the church Pentecost, and Peter was NOT the first Pope, so the very first church would have been called Baptist instead of catholic, as their doctrines and practices would have been same as ours, not yours!

 

[utilyan]

Jesus was NOT a Catholic, as there was no Christianity so called until he instituted the church Pentecost, and Peter was NOT the first Pope, so the very first church would have been called Baptist instead of catholic, as their doctrines and practices would have been same as ours, not yours!

John Smyth began the baptist and its because he knew it wasn't the church Jesus started he left it himself.


I'm still waiting for you to slap a date down of when all these things you say happen.

 

[Bro. James]

This is not about specific dates, Gregorian or otherwise. It is about authority from God--keys if you will, to carry out the commission of Jesus, see Mt. 16:18, 28:20. The error comes in with who has the keys? There are many religious keys out there--most do not fit the lock. Pagan ritual is not a sign of having the correct keys.

The 380 A.D. date for pagan Rome assimulating so-called christianity as a state religion is a pretty serious milestone to try to dodge--ignore perhaps--it is still a fatal blow the the history of the bishopric of Peter. New Advent history gets really bogged down in the 4th century.

If the holy see has the keys, it behooves all to be Catholic. If not, the holy see is a usurper from its origin--this would include her daughters as well. Happy locksmithing.

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[utilyan]

This is not about specific dates, Gregorian or otherwise. It is about authority from God--keys if you will, to carry out the commission of Jesus, see Mt. 16:18, 28:20. The error comes in with who has the keys? There are many religious keys out there--most do not fit the lock. Pagan ritual is not a sign of having the correct keys.

The 380 A.D. date for pagan Rome assimulating so-called christianity as a state religion is a pretty serious milestone to try to dodge--ignore perhaps--it is still a fatal blow the the history of the bishopric of Peter. New Advent history gets really bogged down in the 4th century.

If the holy see has the keys, it behooves all to be Catholic. If not, the holy see is a usurper from its origin--this would include her daughters as well. Happy locksmithing.

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Lets assume its the usurper rather then the genuine. Who are the genuine prior to 380ad, Give us the names of these holy folks who directly followed the apostles and practice legit Christianity.

 

[Bro. James]

Saints at Rome: see Ro. 1:7 Church of God at Corinth: I Cor. 1;2 Churches of Galatia: Gal. 1:2

All the Saints at Philippi: Philippians 1:1.

There are other examples in Apostle Paul's letters. See also the Book of Revelation: Ch. 2,3: Seven Churches of Asia.

The Bible calls them Saints--imagine that: living Saints, not yet canonized or beatified. These are very holy folks for sure, but not of themselves or a magisterium birthed by the Roman Empire.

A real interesting surf: word study--ecclesia, kuriakon, kuriakos; also: kirche.

As far as legitimate Christianity: this is the crux of the matter--who has the authority given by Jesus? There are a multitude of counterfeits out there. What is the standard? The Word of God or the commandments of men? It cannot be all of the above. Everything man does is woefully depraved.

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[utilyan]

Saints at Rome: see Ro. 1:7 Church of God at Corinth: I Cor. 1;2 Churches of Galatia: Gal. 1:2

All the Saints at Philippi: Philippians 1:1.

There are other examples in Apostle Paul's letters. See also the Book of Revelation: Ch. 2,3: Seven Churches of Asia.

The Bible calls them Saints--imagine that: living Saints, not yet canonized or beatified. These are very holy folks for sure, but not of themselves or a magisterium birthed by the Roman Empire.

A real interesting surf: word study--ecclesia, kuriakon, kuriakos; also: kirche.

As far as legitimate Christianity: this is the crux of the matter--who has the authority given by Jesus? There are a multitude of counterfeits out there. What is the standard? The Word of God or the commandments of men? It cannot be all of the above. Everything man does is woefully depraved.

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Names. Who is the church after the apostles died. If you want to argue the church just instantly up and poofed then do so.

Scripture gives instructions for bishops (overseers) for example. I would think holy scripture would succeed least in one cycle or generation of bishops.

All the apostles are dead, who is a living bishop of Christianity who has the correct faith?

 

[Bro. James]

Names. Who is the church after the apostles died. If you want to argue the church just instantly up and poofed then do so.

Scripture gives instructions for bishops (overseers) for example. I would think holy scripture would succeed least in one cycle or generation of bishops.

All the apostles are dead, who is a living bishop of Christianity who has the correct faith?

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See: St. John 14: 26, Douay- Rheims, 1899: "But The Paraclete, The Holy Ghost, whom The Father will send in my name, He

will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you."

For all English translations,see also: www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John%2014:26

God knows Man, regardless of bishopric, cannot handle spiritual matters without Divine intervention.

Why is there a pope emeritus?

See also Acts Ch.2.--The Paraclete came to the First Church of Jerusalem--He still indwells His Churches through the gates of hell even through today--the number of dead Bishops of Rome is irrelevant. (How did all of this get to Rome--or was it Avingon?) Then there is the catholic group which sprang up in Constantinople--they deny the primacy of Peter.

See the dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3. Jesus told Nicodemus, a master of religion, that he must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. Nicodemus had not a clue.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[utilyan]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See: St. John 14: 26, Douay- Rheims, 1899: "But The Paraclete, The Holy Ghost, whom The Father will send in my name, He

will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you."

For all English translations,see also: www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John%2014:26

God knows Man, regardless of bishopric, cannot handle spiritual matters without Divine intervention.

Why is there a pope emeritus?

See also Acts Ch.2.--The Paraclete came to the First Church of Jerusalem--He still indwells His Churches through the gates of hell even through today--the number of dead Bishops of Rome is irrelevant. (How did all of this get to Rome--or was it Avingon?) Then there is the catholic group which sprang up in Constantinople--they deny the primacy of Peter.

See the dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3. Jesus told Nicodemus, a master of religion, that he must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. Nicodemus had not a clue.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Names brother. Jesus prayed for a unity and not for his church to be taken from the world.

So did the church flop and died after the last apostle, Or did the apostles put people in charge.

We know they put people in charge even folks briefly mentioned in the bible.

Who are these people? Give me their names.

I want the immediate generation of bishops who followed the apostles. The apostles are still alive, taught, and appointed these people, while these folks had office.

These are not unknown folks because without them you have no confirmation of what the 66 books of the bible are, other then taking the word of our mommy and daddy.


What happened in the bible is not a fairy tale story that stopped, the apostles lived and continued their work.

 

[Bro. James]

Seems like Paraclete should sufficiently all your questions. Does He dwell in you?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[utilyan]

Seems like Paraclete should sufficiently all your questions. Does He dwell in you?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Amen he does.

Jesus Christ is Lord.

Which is why he is my supreme authority.


Jesus knows me. If he points to bread and says that is his body, It absolutely is before what my eye says, DNA test say, the whole world can tell me what it thinks. I trust him more then me. That is the Body of Christ.


If Christ asks me to take out the trash, I don't stop and ponder if it is going to pay me salvation or not, I just do it.

 

[steaver]

If Christ asks me to take out the trash, I don't stop and ponder if it is going to pay me salvation or not, I just do it.

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

 

[Walter]

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

Kinship ties, no matter how close, were not to prevent anyone from stoning family members who enticed others to commit adultery (Deut. 13:7-10). Any child who struck his parents (Ex. 21:15), cursed them (Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9), or was incorrigible (Deut. 21:18-21) was to be killed, presumably by the parents or other relatives. Despite the high value placed on family life in ancient Israel, divine law and order took precedence over kinship ties.

Jesus' teaching and action reflect a similar tension between the priority of God over kinship and the high value of the family. When he was twelve, he "had to be about his father's house," even though it caused Joseph and Mary anguish (Luke 2:48-49). Before he sent his disciples on their first mission he said, "Anyone who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and anyone who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me" (Matt. 10:37).

On the other hand, when the rich young man asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, our Lord replied, "Honor your father and mother" (Matt. 19:19; Luke 18:20). He excoriated the Pharisees for neglecting this commandment (Mark 7:10-13). Following Jesus, the early Church taught children to obey their parents and parents to treat their children well (Eph. 6:1-3; Col. 3:20-21).

 

[Bro. James]

Names brother. Jesus prayed for a unity and not for his church to be taken from the world.

So did the church flop and died after the last apostle, Or did the apostles put people in charge.

We know they put people in charge even folks briefly mentioned in the bible.

Who are these people? Give me their names.

I want the immediate generation of bishops who followed the apostles. The apostles are still alive, taught, and appointed these people, while these folks had office.

These are not unknown folks because without them you have no confirmation of what the 66 books of the bible are, other then taking the word of our mommy and daddy.


What happened in the bible is not a fairy tale story that stopped, the apostles lived and continued their work.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It matters not about the names. Jesus promised to take His Bride through the end of the age in spite of the onslaughts of Hell. He is doing this through The Paraclete, Pneuma Hagion, The Spirit, The Holy, who leads in all Truth. This has always been done through the New Testament Churches. The Glory of promulgating the spreading of the Gospel to the uttermost parts of the earth does not go to men but to God. He has maintained a remnant in every generation in spite of the apostasy of manmade religions. What their names might be is irrelevant.

This remnant has never married the state and never forced their beliefs on anyone. They have always followed the New Testament Church pattern as found in the Book of Acts. They are still here, waiting for the Bridegroom to return.

Listings of bishops going back to the Apostles can be a real confusing adventure. There have been forgeries and a serious stretching of facts through blank spaces especially from the 4th century back to the 1st. The list of popes and anti-popes is an interesting dilemma which still exists. There are Western Church papists and Eastern Church non-papists. There are some papists who say all popes since Vatican II are antipopes. Then there is the pope emeritus. This is almost as confusing as the Protestant Reformation and all the present day so-called protestants. (By the way, True Baptists are not part of The Protestant Reformation.) Also, there were True Baptists long before John Smythe, the Anglican, renounced his infant baptism. Put an "Ana" in front of Baptist to follow that one. You will find us in the "heretics" section of the New Advent Encyclopedia.

Books of The Bible: Catholic--73, Protestant: 66. That is another discussion. It is important to note that the two cannons do not come from the same library of ancient manuscipts. Another thread as well.

The Word of God is not fables and fairy tales for sure. He said what He meant and meant what He said. He left no room for the commandments of men. He did leave The Paraclete, to convict man of sin, righteousness and judgement to come. He also leads, guides and directs the children of God through the pillar and ground of The Truth: The New Testament Church.

There is a lot of phony religion out there folks. Beware: the wolves, dressed like sheep.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Adonia]

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

Who did St. Paul say Abraham was? Just the FATHER of us all is all!

 

[steaver]

Who did St. Paul say Abraham was? Just the FATHER of us all is all!

So Paul nullifies Jesus? Not sure what your point is.....

 

[steaver]

Kinship ties, no matter how close, were not to prevent anyone from stoning family members who enticed others to commit adultery (Deut. 13:7-10). Any child who struck his parents (Ex. 21:15), cursed them (Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9), or was incorrigible (Deut. 21:18-21) was to be killed, presumably by the parents or other relatives. Despite the high value placed on family life in ancient Israel, divine law and order took precedence over kinship ties.

Jesus' teaching and action reflect a similar tension between the priority of God over kinship and the high value of the family. When he was twelve, he "had to be about his father's house," even though it caused Joseph and Mary anguish (Luke 2:48-49). Before he sent his disciples on their first mission he said, "Anyone who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and anyone who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me" (Matt. 10:37).

On the other hand, when the rich young man asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, our Lord replied, "Honor your father and mother" (Matt. 19:19; Luke 18:20). He excoriated the Pharisees for neglecting this commandment (Mark 7:10-13). Following Jesus, the early Church taught children to obey their parents and parents to treat their children well (Eph. 6:1-3; Col. 3:20-21).

Ok. Not sure what it has to do with Jesus' admonition to not title anyone Father, religiously speaking of course, but it was some good reading. Blessings!

 

[utilyan]

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It matters not about the names. Jesus promised to take His Bride through the end of the age in spite of the onslaughts of Hell. He is doing this through The Paraclete, Pneuma Hagion, The Spirit, The Holy, who leads in all Truth. This has always been done through the New Testament Churches. The Glory of promulgating the spreading of the Gospel to the uttermost parts of the earth does not go to men but to God. He has maintained a remnant in every generation in spite of the apostasy of manmade religions. What their names might be is irrelevant.

This remnant has never married the state and never forced their beliefs on anyone. They have always followed the New Testament Church pattern as found in the Book of Acts. They are still here, waiting for the Bridegroom to return.

Listings of bishops going back to the Apostles can be a real confusing adventure. There have been forgeries and a serious stretching of facts through blank spaces especially from the 4th century back to the 1st. The list of popes and anti-popes is an interesting dilemma which still exists. There are Western Church papists and Eastern Church non-papists. There are some papists who say all popes since Vatican II are antipopes. Then there is the pope emeritus. This is almost as confusing as the Protestant Reformation and all the present day so-called protestants. (By the way, True Baptists are not part of The Protestant Reformation.) Also, there were True Baptists long before John Smythe, the Anglican, renounced his infant baptism. Put an "Ana" in front of Baptist to follow that one. You will find us in the "heretics" section of the New Advent Encyclopedia.

Books of The Bible: Catholic--73, Protestant: 66. That is another discussion. It is important to note that the two cannons do not come from the same library of ancient manuscipts. Another thread as well.

The Word of God is not fables and fairy tales for sure. He said what He meant and meant what He said. He left no room for the commandments of men. He did leave The Paraclete, to convict man of sin, righteousness and judgement to come. He also leads, guides and directs the children of God through the pillar and ground of The Truth: The New Testament Church.

There is a lot of phony religion out there folks. Beware: the wolves, dressed like sheep.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Anabaptist were not "faith aloners" nor OSAS. Which is why you are no anabaptist.

The "CLASSIC" argument of reformers was Anabaptist believe being saved by WORKS.

John Calvin would drown Anabaptist.


The only thing in common you have is "believers" baptism.

ANA-BAPTIST, is a word, has meaning, not english origin. It means RE-BAPTIZER.


Of course someone ignorant of history, born in english western world who thinks Jesus was a born American, looks at the word ANABAPTIST and figures oh look there is my word BAPTIST......thats where we come from.

"....the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. " 2 Peter 3:16

.

 

[Adonia]

So Paul nullifies Jesus? Not sure what your point is.....

This is not a nullification, but the proper use of the binding and loosing power Jesus gave to those Christian leaders who remained on earth after He went to heaven. We also call the man married to our mothers Father, so according to you this would be subject to the same command of Christ, would it not?

What Christ is telling us here is not to look at any man as we look at our Father from heaven, the Creator of us all, who is the only one due worship and praise that's all. It is not a blanket admonition that we are never to use the word.



God bless!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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