Seventh-day Adventists - not a cult according to Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults"

[BobRyan]

If 1,000,000 people have kind words to say about your cult leader, does that mean that she is not a cult leader?
.

It means your ability to simply make stuff up is not the compelling argument you seem to have imagined it to be. It means that these nonSDA scholars who look at her work and comment on the quality of it - flies in the face of your "all the product of brain damage" wild assertions.

 

[thatbrian]

True that is why even Walter Martin noticed that Hoekema was dead wrong and that SDAs do preach the Gospel.

Are you trying to shoot yourself in the foot on that one?

Eat lentils and use the "visions" of Ellen White to understand God's Word, and you will be saved, that's not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[thatbrian]

It means your ability to simply make stuff up is not the compelling argument you seem to have imagined it to be. It means that these nonSDA scholars who look at her work and comment on the quality of it - flies in the face of your "all the product of brain damage" wild assertions.

You are a man without a hope in this world or the next, if you continue to take, as gospel, the writings of this lunatic. Christ alone saves. He needs no help from Ellen White's witchcraft.

 

[thatbrian]

It means your ability to simply make stuff up is not the compelling argument you seem to have imagined it to be. It means that these nonSDA scholars who look at her work and comment on the quality of it - flies in the face of your "all the product of brain damage" wild assertions.

I've used quotes directly from the idolatrous false prophet Ellen White. Which words of hers do you take issue with?

 

[church mouse guy]

If you can get him to actually discuss doctrine even for a minute you will be way ahead of me on that one.

Yeah, we have a lot of words but no answer to the question about what are you talking about specifically from him. Just silence as the crickets are gone this time of year.

 

[thatbrian]

The perverted "gospel" of the SDA: No tithe - No Heaven for you!

...God declares that he will abundantly bless
those who are faithful in bringing him their
TITHES and offerings, but that the CURSE of
Heaven will rest upon those who are
dishonest in this matter. God forbid that the
CURSE of heaven should rest upon this
congregation because of DISHONESTY
toward the Lord. God forbid that any one of us
should FAIL OF GAINING the precious boom
of ETERNAL LIFE. Do not ROB God.

--Ellen G. White, The General Conference
Bulletin, April 8, 1901, paragraph 17. Article
Title: Will a Man Rob God?

 

[thatbrian]

A mere assent to the truth is not enough.
There must be prayerful labor with those who
embrace the truth, until they shall be convicted
of their SINS and shall seek God and be
converted. Then they should be INSTRUCTED
in regard to the CLAIMS of God upon them in
TITHES and offerings. They MUST learn that
the TITHING system is BINDING upon God's
people in these last days as truly as it was
upon ancient Israel.

-- Ellen G. White, Gospel Workers, page 98,
paragraph 2. Chapter Title: The Minister

 

[thatbrian]

The Lord will NOT hold GUILTLESS those
who are deficient in doing the work that he
REQUIRES at their hands ... and doing all
their DUTY; in ALLOWING NO NEGLECT
which will bring the THREATENED CURSE
upon his people. A CURSE is pronounced
upon all who withhold the TITHE from God.

-- Ellen G. White, Special on Tithing, page 20,
paragraph 3. Subhead: A Word to Ministers
and Elders.

 

[BobRyan]

thatbrian said: ↑
Damage to one's frontal lobe can cause delusion of grandeur. That would explain a lot about Ellen White.

until you actually read the text of what she wrote.

For example - her book on Education was copied almost verbatim

============================

A graduate student working on an advanced degree at Teachers’ College, Columbia University, in 1959 discovered a copy of Ellen White’s Education in the personal reference library of Florence Stratemeyer. Stratemeyer, a leading educator and professor of education, was invited to give an address before a convention of Adventist teachers in Washington, D.C. In it she said, among other things: “Recently the book Education, by Ellen G. White, has been brought to my attention. Written at the turn of the century, this volume was more than fifty years ahead of its times. And I was surprised to learn that it was written by a woman with but three years of schooling.

Six years earlier Professor Tsunekichi Mizuno of Japan’s Tamagawa University (and formerly head of the Tokyo Museum of Science and director of social education for the Japanese Ministry of Education) recommended Education to parents, teachers, and students. He called it “most profitable reading in our understanding of the ‘New Education.’”

The minister of education of a southern European country had been studying at Teachers’ College, Columbia University. He had come to the United States for the newest and best in educational policy and program of his newborn state. Upon his return to southern Europe, Raja R. Radosavlyevish “authored” a work on religious and moral education. It was written in the Serbian language, published by the state university press, and acclaimed by that institution as the “best book” on religious education in that language. When Adventist church leaders in Serbia read the work, they recognized it immediately—it was a translation of Ellen White’s Education, with an introduction written by the Serbian minister of education. Eighty percent of the new book came directly from Ellen White’s pen! Was it plagiarism? Who knows the good man’s motivation? If Charles Caleb Colton is correct in his dictum (“Imitation is the sincerest [form] of flattery”), then Adventists should indeed feel flattered!

Those are all non-SDAs looking "at the text" -- able and interesting "in reading"

In 1960 Paul Harvey, American Broadcasting Company news commentator and United Features syndicated columnist, wrote a 16-paragraph article featuring Ellen White. It began:
“Once upon a time, a hundred years ago, there lived a young lady named Ellen White. She was frail as a child, completed only grammar school [actually, she never really finished the third grade], and had no technical training, and yet she lived to write scores of articles and many books on the subject of ‘healthful living.’ “Remember, this was in the days when doctors were still bloodletting and performing surgery with unwashed hands. This was in an era of medical ignorance bordering on barbarism. Yet Ellen White wrote with such profound understanding of the subject of nutrition that all but two of the many principles she espoused have been scientifically established.” Harvey then pointed out how she was correct about the preference for olive oil over animal fat in the diet. We recognize now her wisdom in scoring refined white flour as lacking in nutritive value. Her warnings concerning the dangers of overuse of salt and irregularity in eating have proved correct.
In 1960 there were two unverified statements from her pen: the use of multigrains instead of merely whole wheat in breadmaking, and vegetarianism.

Nine years later columnist Harvey did an update on Mrs. White for his newspaper readers across America. After citing the low incidence of strokes, respiratory diseases, and cancer among Adventists, he continued: “It has tended to reaffirm the faith of the faithful to discover that the most advanced scientific findings support what was written and taught by this amazing little lady, Ellen White, more than a century ago. If future scientific findings continue to support hers, let’s see what tomorrow’s doctors will be prescribing: “Ellen White advised against overeating. Also against crash dieting. (‘Do not go to extremes.’) Minimal sweets. (She said that sugar is not good for the stomach.) “She recommended grains, vegetables, fruits—especially apples. (‘Apples are superior to any fruit.’) “She recommended against meat. Coffee, and tea. And, sorry, no hot biscuits. “If some of her recommendations sound extreme, imagine how they must have sounded in 1863. Yet modern science continues more and more to say, ‘She was right’!”

thatbrian said: ↑
If 1,000,000 people have kind words to say about your cult leader, does that mean that she is not a cult leader?

It means your ability to simply make stuff up is not the compelling argument you seem to have imagined it to be. It means that these nonSDA scholars who look at her work and comment on the quality of it - flies in the face of your "all the product of brain damage" wild assertions.

I've used quotes directly from the idolatrous false prophet Ellen White. Which words of hers do you take issue with?

I assume you are pretending not to follow the discussion because you think it helps your case to do that.

How "odd".

 

[BobRyan]

A graduate student working on an advanced degree at Teachers’ College, Columbia University, in 1959 discovered a copy of Ellen White’s Education in the personal reference library of Florence Stratemeyer. Stratemeyer, a leading educator and professor of education, was invited to give an address before a convention of Adventist teachers in Washington, D.C. In it she said, among other things: “Recently the book Education, by Ellen G. White, has been brought to my attention. Written at the turn of the century, this volume was more than fifty years ahead of its times. And I was surprised to learn that it was written by a woman with but three years of schooling.

Six years earlier Professor Tsunekichi Mizuno of Japan’s Tamagawa University (and formerly head of the Tokyo Museum of Science and director of social education for the Japanese Ministry of Education) recommended Education to parents, teachers, and students. He called it “most profitable reading in our understanding of the ‘New Education.’”

The minister of education of a southern European country had been studying at Teachers’ College, Columbia University. He had come to the United States for the newest and best in educational policy and program of his newborn state. Upon his return to southern Europe, Raja R. Radosavlyevish “authored” a work on religious and moral education. It was written in the Serbian language, published by the state university press, and acclaimed by that institution as the “best book” on religious education in that language. When Adventist church leaders in Serbia read the work, they recognized it immediately—it was a translation of Ellen White’s Education, with an introduction written by the Serbian minister of education. Eighty percent of the new book came directly from Ellen White’s pen! Was it plagiarism? Who knows the good man’s motivation? If Charles Caleb Colton is correct in his dictum (“Imitation is the sincerest [form] of flattery”), then Adventists should indeed feel flattered!

Those are all non-SDAs looking "at the text" -- able and interesting "in reading"

 

[BobRyan]

The Lord will NOT hold GUILTLESS those
who are deficient in doing the work that he
REQUIRES at their hands ...

At some point you need to "make a point" -- start with an actual published doctrinal statement.

 

[BobRyan]

A mere assent to the truth is not enough.
There must be prayerful labor with those who
embrace the truth, r

At some point you need to 'make a point'

Malachi 3
Return to me, and I will return to you, says the Lord of hosts. But you say, ‘How shall we return?’ 8 Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, ‘How have we robbed you?’ In your tithes and contributions. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you. 10 Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.


More Bible - less emotional rant please

 

[BobRyan]

I'm not sure why you are side-stepping the question?

You said below, "God has given this church the mission of giving the last warning message..."

And I said I was talking about the SDA denomination -- a few times.

Where is the hard part???

I
And you are alluding to the SDA's.

How in the world is my statement to be re-imagined as 'alluding' when I repeatedly say which denomination - which church I am talking about?

John the baptizer was not the only child of God in his day - but he was the one with a unique mission. Same with Noah.

The Seventh-day Adventist denomination is not the only one with saved saints in it - but it is the only one with the unique God-given mission specific to Revelation 14 - and the last warning to mankind for the end of time -

Each time I say this you say you are confused about something - and then ask me to repeat it ... for reasons I do not understand.

 

[BobRyan]

Yeah, we have a lot of words but no answer to the question about what are you talking about specifically from him. Just silence as the crickets are gone this time of year.

??

 

[robycop3]

Remember the test of a TRUE prophet of God's, as set forth by GOD HIMSELF: a true prophet of God's must have a 1.000 "batting average" in his/her predictions. There are several clear examples where some of EGW's prophecies failed. others were so general it's hard to pinpoint whether they failed or not. And others needed no prophetic gift to make, such as the advances in science, etc.

 

[church mouse guy]

??

You said that you can't get him to list any specific doctrinal objections and I can't either.

 

[thatbrian]

Let us not forget that SDA's state the EGW's writings are inspired. Inspired by God, they claim. She, and her followers claim these are God's very words, not her own thoughts.

What both Ellen White and the SDA claim is that when you quote Ellen G White, you quote God. Let that sink in.

 

[BobRyan]

You said that you can't get him to list any specific doctrinal objections and I can't either.

This is odd because there are in fact real doctrinal differences between the SDA denomination and baptists... you would think he would have plenty of material to work with. Not sure why he does not do it.

 

[JonShaff]

This is odd because there are in fact real doctrinal differences between the SDA denomination and baptists... you would think he would have plenty of material to work with. Not sure why he does not do it.

Question, must we Keep the OT law in order for God's Grace to be effective in our Salvation?

Also, does satan take upon himself our sin?

Thirdly, Can we have full assurance right this moment that we are Saved?

Also, can i reject Ellen White as a true prophet of God and still be saved?

Do you believe Baptism in the Water spiritually unites us with Christ?

 

[BobRyan]

Let us not forget that SDA's state the EGW's writings are inspired. Inspired by God, they claim. She, and her followers claim these are God's very words, not her own thoughts.

Do you actually read what the Bible says about prophets?

hint: Numbers 12 -- as already pointed out to you ... and ignored since it is merely "the Bible"

Then Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cushite woman whom he had married (for he had married a Cushite woman); 2 and they said, “Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us as well?” And the Lord heard it. 3 (Now the man Moses was very humble, more than any man who was on the face of the earth.) 4 Suddenly the Lord said to Moses and Aaron and to Miriam, “You three come out to the tent of meeting.” So the three of them came out. 5 Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud and stood at the doorway of the tent, and He called Aaron and Miriam. When they had both come forward, 6 He said,


“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.
I shall speak with him in a dream.
7 “Not so, with My servant Moses,
He is faithful in all My household;
8 With him I speak mouth to mouth,
Even openly, and not in dark sayings,
And he beholds the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
To speak against My servant, against Moses?”

Here is a good opportunity to "read" as we all can see.

Miram and Aaron are prophets but write no books of the Bible - still God shows how that works


“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.

He points to the very details on this doctrine that you most strongly deny.

Thus in the NT
Anna in the temple
Ababus in the book of Acts
Philips 4 daughters in the book of Acts
1Cor 14 all those in Corinth that "have a revelation" to share when they meet for worship.

None of them write any books of the Bible - yet they have the gift of prophecy described in 1Corinthians 12 and 14.

"first apostles, then prophets then pastors" 1 Cor 12