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Seventh-day Adventists
- Thread starter SwordBearer
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You support MURDER.
" 28 Fundamental Beliefs of SDAs" Ratified by who?
These beliefs were originally known as the 27 fundamental beliefs when adopted by the church's General Conference in 1980. An additional belief (number 11) was added in 2005.
The support of MURDER of Children was last edited in 1992.
Well supported since 1970s.
You are murdering right now by hiding the truth.
The general conference can say tomorrow there is 0 fundamental beliefs they are governing body of the church. They decide what is scripture, as they decide ELLEN G WHITES writings are scripture.
They support abortion.
"Though we walk the fence, Adventists lean toward abortion rather than against it. Because we realize we are confronted by big problems of hunger and overpopulation, we do not oppose family planning and appropriate endeavors to control population." -- Neal C. Wilson SDA President of NA Division. 1970
Maybe Bob can tell us why killing children is a better way to fix the problem of world hunger and overpopulation?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Those beliefs are voted in by the entire world denomination at its 5 year session... happens every 5 years. Not one statement there affirming abortion and what is more -- making stuff up like "you support Murder" is simply not true. What is true - is that if all Catholic Justices on the Supreme court could bring themselves to vote against abortion - the U.S. would not have the abortion problem... and we both know it.
This gets pointed out to you dozens of times - and still you look for more creative ways to have me bring this up again. I guess it is still a detail you like seeing posted on thread after thread. I just don't know why.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I assume that unhinged behavior is because you know that if all Catholic justices on the supreme court could bring themselves to vote against abortion - we would not have that problem in the U.S. anymore.
I would certainly support them having the strength of their convictions to the point of voting against abortion. Must be frustrating for you.
Nope they are automatically excommunicated, it is flat out murder. Hitler was Catholic too. Doesn't mean everything Hitler does is catholic teaching.
The guy who invented abortion, He could be catholic too.
We are talking about official SDA Church teachings,
I am showing you the official website of the Seventh Day Adventists:
Abortion
One of the other things the ENTIRE WORLD DENOMINATION voted on in those 5 year conventions is to have an executive committee which can vote yearly by annual council.
READ THE PART I UNDERLINED.
These guidelines were approved and voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council session in Silver Spring, Maryland, October 12, 1992.
ARTICLE III—DIVISIONS OF THE GENERAL CONFERENCE The General Conference conducts much of its work through its divisions, which in turn are comprised of unions in specific areas of the world. Each division of the General Conference is authorised to carry out responsibilities in the territory assigned to it. It shall act in full harmony with the General Conference Constitution and Bylaws, the General Conference Working Policy, and actions of the Executive Committee. In order to carry the authority of the General Conference, the actions of division committees shall, of necessity, be in harmony with and complementary to the decisions of the General Conference in Session, and the actions of the General Conference Executive Committee between Sessions.
ARTICLE XIII—GENERAL CONFERENCE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE Sec. 1. a. During the intervals between Sessions of the General Conference, the General Conference Executive Committee is delegated the authority to act on behalf of the General Conference in Session. The membership of the General Conference Executive Committee includes representatives of all the divisions of the world field and the presidents of all unions and therefore speaks for the world Church. Major items affecting the world Church are considered at the Annual
Council meetings of the General Conference Executive Committee, when all the members of the Committee are invited to be present. The authority, therefore, of the General Conference Executive Committee is the authority of the world Church.
Bob,
You know the SDA doctrines inside and out. Could you give us the essentials that cause you to be a SDA Christian rather than any other Christian identification? What I mean by "essentials" is the must do's or not do's in order to receive salvation. For example would keeping Saturday Sabbath be an essential or just a preference or non essential.
Our Catholic friends could do the same. What is essential for salvation and what is merely just non essential held preferences.
You know the SDA doctrines inside and out. Could you give us the essentials that cause you to be a SDA Christian rather than any other Christian identification? What I mean by "essentials" is the must do's or not do's in order to receive salvation. For example would keeping Saturday Sabbath be an essential or just a preference or non essential.
Our Catholic friends could do the same. What is essential for salvation and what is merely just non essential held preferences.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Supreme court justices are not excommunicated neither are the Catholic pro-abortion members of congress.
And the flood of latino immigrants coming across the southern boarder swelling the pro-abortion ranks of the democrat party -- may also have a significant voice in the discussion.
So also the history of the RCC killing not only the babies but also the woman and syblings
24 August 1572 - The St Bartholomew's Day Massacre - The Anne Boleyn Files
The idea that killing 25 million to 100 million Christians over that period of time - officially sanctioned by the RCC with its Lateran IV command to "exterminate heretics and Jews" -- is a history of respect for human life.. is difficult to reconcile with the obvious facts in the case.
All of this coming up because you want to hammer some anti-abortion Christian like me - as if the RCC is the perfect image of respect for human life or "as if" Catholic supreme court justices and congress persons do not have the power any day they wish to put a stop to abortion in America.
I would jump for joy if all Catholics would switch to voting anti-abortion the way I do -- and we both know it.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The Seventh-day Adventist church brings the last message to the world as seen in Revelation 14 - the same way that John the baptizer brought the key end-time-message to the world regarding the first coming of Christ and the same way that Noah brought the key end-time-prophecy message to the world before the flood.
In all three cases most people in the world reject the message - but not all.
See the Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19
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No Bob, this is a board to give your views in your own words, you may give references, but just answer my question in your words. I gave you an example...
"What I mean by "essentials" is the must do's or not do's in order to receive salvation. For example would keeping Saturday Sabbath be an essential or just a preference or non essential?"
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In the two cases you mentioned already past, ONLY the TRUE BELIEVERS accepted Noah's and John's messages. It would follow then that you believe ONLY those who accept SDA versions concerning Rev 14 are the TRUE believers. Correct?
Worst than that would be how they view Ellen White as being a real prophetess and her views equal to sacred scriptures, and how they view investigation judgement after death, as a person can loose salvation by rejecting Sabbath, not agreeing with Ellen White as valid etc!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 of the "New Covenant" Jeremiah 31:31-33 we are saved by grace through faith and have the new birth and the Law written on the heart - as well as forgiveness of sin.
Yes Steaver -- Allow me to quote it for you -- as stated by C.H. Spurgeon
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19. The Law of God
- God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
- The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
- Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
- To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
- The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
- Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
- The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.
from - The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Prophets are listed in 1 Cor 12 as a legitimate ministry in the church of the New Testament saints.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
True. The Genesis 6-7 case is in the past, and the message of John the baptizer is in the past - but the 3 Angels message of Rev 14 given as the final warning to mankind before the 2nd coming - deals with future events.
But in this case, they're TRUE.
But not one was cited for not meeting on saturday.
https://archive.org/stream/convertscatechis00geie/convertscatechis00geie_djvu.txt
You and they are simply both wrong.
First, the Sabbath was given ONLY TO ISRAEL.No one else was obliged to keep it.
Second, Jesus was already risen before Sunday. He rose Saturday eve just before sunset.
Now, I don't know if you're an Adlibber or a follower of the late herbie Armstrong, but if you're either one, you're part of a cult.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
False accusations are a dime a dozen... very easy to make.
Just not in real life... and I prefer real life.
But you have free will and can make up whatever you wish.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Not one text there saying that Sunday is the Lord's Day, or that it is Sabbath or that the NT saints meet every week day 1.. So you 'quote nothing'??
Because they are "your list" of texts that do not show that - Sunday is the Lord's Day, or that it is Sabbath or that the NT saints meet every week day 1.
If you asked for MY list of texts showing Gospel preaching - worship services on Saturday with both Jews and Gentiles -- I would have given n
Acts 13 -- Sabbath after Sabbath
Acts 17:1-4 Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath
Acts 18:4 -- EVERY Sabbath.
(I have to admit - this is a fun game)
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
=================================================
The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.
1965 -- first published 1959
(from "The Faith Explained" page 243
"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...
The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...
nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"
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and still another Catholic document
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Convert's Catechism
Full text of "The convert's catechism of Catholic doctrine"
3. The Third Commandment.
Q. What is the Third Commandment?
A. The Third Commandment is: Remember
that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.
-----------------------------------------------------
Q. Which is the Sabbath day ?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday ?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
make up anything you wish.
But your false accusation starts off with the SDA claim that Catholics claim to have changed the Sabbath (in fact changed the LORD's Day) from Saturday to Sunday -- is false. When in fact the Catholics claim that very thing. And history proves it.
That too is totally false as even the Baptist Confession of Faith and D.L. Moody admitted.
"Sabbath MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
Isaiah 56:6-8 GENTILEs singled out for keeping Sabbath.
So far your accusations prove to all be false and even your statements about the Bible have not proven true.
Now, I don't know if you're an Adlibber or a follower of the late herbie Armstrong, but if you're either one, you're part of a cult.
I am neither one... but you have free will and can choose whatever you wish.
"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1
I've known and/or have spoken with a few SDAs, and having listened to them, I've come away with an understanding of where their confidence is. Not one I've come across had his confidence placed in Christ. Without exception, the confidence of those I've spoken with was resting in their works.
Now, I may have gotten a bad sample, but 100% of my sample failed to convey an understanding of or a confidence in the gospel of Christ, by grace and through faith.
I've known and/or have spoken with a few SDAs, and having listened to them, I've come away with an understanding of where their confidence is. Not one I've come across had his confidence placed in Christ. Without exception, the confidence of those I've spoken with was resting in their works.
Now, I may have gotten a bad sample, but 100% of my sample failed to convey an understanding of or a confidence in the gospel of Christ, by grace and through faith.
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