" shacking up" and marriage in the eyes of God

[JohnnyReb]

Moderator you may close this thread. I think we pretty much vented our positions

I would like to thank y'all for the kind and honest replies. We managed to have over 50 posts without any personal attacks or belittling one another ( I think). Good debate and I respect everyone's opinion. Although I may challenge your opinion it is for education and not spite. I can find wisdom in people I disagree with so if you disagree with me thank you for your reasons and sharing your wisdom.

 

[annsni]

I just read the op and scanned the answers on the first page.

#1 - They are not married. They are still living in sin according to the Scriptures.

#2 - I would recommend that they correct this and be married in our church.

#3 - This would protect the spouses and the children legally which "shacking-up" doesn't do.

#4 - It would be a testimony to lives changed by the God who created marriage.

#5 - Whether the government acknowledges gay marriage or not doesn't matter. They also acknowledge marriages that we know are not healthy so who cares what they say? However, as I said, there are legal ramifications that really must be taken into consideration.

 

[preacher4truth]

I just read the op and scanned the answers on the first page.

#1 - They are not married. They are still living in sin according to the Scriptures.

#2 - I would recommend that they correct this and be married in our church.

#3 - This would protect the spouses and the children legally which "shacking-up" doesn't do.

#4 - It would be a testimony to lives changed by the God who created marriage.

#5 - Whether the government acknowledges gay marriage or not doesn't matter. They also acknowledge marriages that we know are not healthy so who cares what they say? However, as I said, there are legal ramifications that really must be taken into consideration.

Yup. I wonder if one or both are legally married to another. The OP nor anyone else has considered such a proposition.

Regardless, both are in sin, and PC theology and a false interpretation of 'love' win the day for this church.

 

[Zaac]

Well when the law requires you to get 666 on your forehead will you follow that too because the God appointed authorities require you to do so? I will not

When the authorities authorize killing baby's and not calling it murder will you call that ok because God appointed them? I will not. It is murder whether it is legal by mans law or not

Do you recognize marriage between two men because the law says it is lawful? I will not

Again, we are to submit to the authority but not to that which goes against God's command.

There is no Biblical reason to not get a marriage license.

The list goes on. I just don't agree that we should stand behind laws because " God appointed them". It seems that we pick and choose as Christians which ones we support. So we support the governments authority with marriage but do not support gay marriage and abortions. I think some laws are of the Devil

Christians aren't to support gay marriage because it goes against what God ordained as marriage. Abortion is murder.

There is no BIBLICAL reason for us to not submit to the authority God has placed over us in the things that do not conflict with HIS commands.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Yup. I wonder if one or both are legally married to another. The OP nor anyone else has considered such a proposition.

Regardless, both are in sin, and PC theology and a false interpretation of 'love' win the day for this church.

Wrong assumption sir. I am not the Pastor or in a leadership position in the Church. They very well may deny them membership and ask them to separate ect ect. It has not came to a head yet

 

[annsni]

We had a couple attend our home church who we found out were not married when the men went away on a men's retreat and they were talking in the van on the way home about how long they were married. This man sheepishly said that he and his gal were not married. "So when do you want to put that to rights, man?" my hubby said. No judgment, just matter of fact. They were married a month later. They had 3 children together at this point so it wasn't even a new thing that they were living together. But they were new believers.

 

[JohnnyReb]

We had a couple attend our home church who we found out were not married when the men went away on a men's retreat and they were talking in the van on the way home about how long they were married. This man sheepishly said that he and his gal were not married. "So when do you want to put that to rights, man?" my hubby said. No judgment, just matter of fact. They were married a month later. They had 3 children together at this point so it wasn't even a new thing that they were living together. But they were new believers.

Good story and who knows this could be what happens here too. I personally am not going to cast stones if they don't but would be joyed if they did.

 

[preacher4truth]

Wrong assumption sir. I am not the Pastor or in a leadership position in the Church. They very well may deny them membership and ask them to separate ect ect. It has not came to a head yet

JohnnyReb,

That actually wouldn't be a wrong assumption as you've inferred over and again you're good with it, have no problem with it, have justified it &c.

 

[Zaac]

Good story and who knows this could be what happens here too. I personally am not going to cast stones if they don't but would be joyed if they did.

I certainly hope so. The leadership of the church needs to explain to them why it is disobedient to do what they are doing and lovingly move them toward repentance and correction.

If they desire neither, they will either leave or the church has the responsibility to disfellowship them.

 

[JohnnyReb]

JohnnyReb,

That actually wouldn't be a wrong assumption as you've inferred over and again you're good with it, have no problem with it, have justified it &c.

Once again sir....I have no say so over what the Church will do. My personal feelings are irrelevant. The Church leadership will decide and they very well may reject there situation. The personal feelings of one person doesn't damn the whole Church. Heck nobody even knows about it YET but me. When the Pastor deals with this it very well could go as Zaac says. I will remain silent on the issue because it is not my place. If I WAS the Pastor I suppose I would be responcible for the position the Church takes but I have not taken that role and most likely never will.

 

[preacher4truth]

Once again sir....I have no say so over what the Church will do. My personal feelings are irrelevant. The Church leadership will decide and they very well may reject there situation. The personal feelings of one person doesn't damn the whole church

I hear you brother, and no one is damning the whole church. My point is you are a reflection of that church and supporting and defending such behavior publicly isn't very wise IMO, nor is supporting it Scripturally sound.

 

[Aaron]

There is no Biblical reason to not get a marriage license.

Long before gay "marriage," a growing contingent of Christians objected to a state license, because the license makes the state a third party to the union.

 

[JohnnyReb]

I hear you brother, and no one is damning the whole church. My point is you are a reflection of that church and supporting and defending such behavior publicly isn't very wise IMO, nor is supporting it Scripturally sound.

I can respect your opinion here. I see where you are coming from. The whole point of this was to seek education on the subject. As I said before, I challenge opinions for the sake of education not spite. It is easy to just take someone's word for something....but sometimes you must challenge them to find out why they feel that way. If I didn't challenge some of you I would get blunt answers with no justification. Because I challenge you I have gotten your real thoughts. I am thankful for everyone's honesty

 

[preacher4truth]

I can respect your opinion here. I see where you are coming from. The whole point of this was to seek education on the subject. As I said before, I challenge opinions for the sake of education not spite. It is easy to just take someone's word for something....but sometimes you must challenge them to find out why they feel that way. If I didn't challenge some of you I would get blunt answers with no justification. Because I challenge you I have gotten your real thoughts. I am thankful for everyone's honesty

Good points and respected. I'm hopeful your church will treat them with love and hope they will not compromise. It is a tough position to be in in a sense due to the fact you may lose them -- but another point is if you 'lose' them over Biblical standards, were they ever yours to begin with, or was it all on their terms? I also seriously wonder if one or both may be married legally to another. Something to consider as a possibility that could come to the forefront.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Long before gay "marriage," a growing contingent of Christians objected to a state license, because the license makes the state a third party to the union.

I am one of the few that can see where they are coming from. In the beginning there was Man, a Woman, and God. The union was a covenant with God and anything else was not required.

I was up last night looking for scripture and found none that support any earthly ritual being what deems us married. Romans 13 seems to be the only real support IMO although the context of Romans 13 can be debated. There was a lot of earthly ritual involved in later times but I find no command for it.

You know if this was 2 18 year old kids shacking up I would feel differently. But these people are grown adults and not horny teenagers. They have been a functioning family for years. There intent seems right to me and have made a commitment to God. Maybe they are living in Sin. God will judge that and ultimately he will sort it out one way or another

Another problem is the kids. They love the Church. I feel casting the parents from fellowship also casts out the children. They are innocent and I have a hard time swallowing the fact they will endure punishment. You may not see it that way but the fact is they will suffer from it one way or another. We can't change the mind of the parents but we can cast them out, but we also cast our their innocent children. I know what will be said, " well it's the parents fault". Maybe so....but it still doesn't justify punishing the children.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I was up last night looking for scripture and found none that support any earthly ritual being what deems us married.

It's a shame you didn't bother to read the passages that show God approves earthly authority in matters of law. They are myriad. The ceremony is up to the couple. The license is issued by the state, and there is nothing in the Bible that negates that concept. In fact, those aforementioned passages give support to it.

 

[preacher4truth]

I was up last night looking for scripture and found none that support any earthly ritual being what deems us married.

Brother, I want to call you on the above, as it seems quite disingenuous to be searching for something you know you will not find in Scripture. It is inferred in Scripture that believers are to obey government, that is plain to see to those who want to see it.

 

[Amy.G]

Brother, I want to call you on the above, as it seems quite disingenuous to be searching for something you know you will not find in Scripture. It is inferred in Scripture that believers are to obey government, that is plain to see to those who want to see it.

I'm not advocating the avoidance of a legal marriage by any stretch, but there is no law that I'm aware of that requires couples to marry. So there is no disobedience to government when they choose not to.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I'm not advocating the avoidance of a legal marriage by any stretch, but there is no law that I'm aware of that requires couples to marry. So there is no disobedience to government when they choose not to.

So you advocate disobedience to God's law just to defeat man's "ungodly" law?

Does that make sense? Or perhaps I misunderstood.

 

[preacher4truth]

I'm not advocating the avoidance of a legal marriage by any stretch, but there is no law that I'm aware of that requires couples to marry. So there is no disobedience to government when they choose not to.

Agreed, however this couple is claiming they are married in Gods eyes. In Gods eyes they are not telling the truth as there is a legal way to do this to which they have a myriad of excuses for not obeying.

This doesn't have a thing to do with governments 'requiring couples to get married' and I am not sure how that even got in the mix. No one is suggesting that government requires couples to be married.