James_Newman
New Member
Brother Jeremy Slone said:
Not at all.
-
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sheep and goats
- Thread starter Helen
- Start date
Not at all.
James_Newman
New Member
Well whatever eternal life Jesus is speaking about in this passage is based on how they treated the least of the brethren. This is yet another clear reason to keep it separate from the free gift of eternal salvation which is based solely on believing on Christ and has nothing whatsoever to do with how we treat the brethren.James,
You are assuming that 1000 years means "everlasting"!
You are assuming Believers may suffer as goats in Hell for 1000 years!!
You even assume Satan will suffer (perish) while Believers are in Hell!!!
My main concern is that, not even the Sheep "go into eternal life" based
on how they "treated the least of Jesus's brethren"! The Sheep "inherit
the eternal kingdom ON EARTH prepared for them from the foundation
of the World"!! They will demonstrate their right to this EARTHLY kingdom
based on their worship of the One true God as well as their treatment of
the "brethren of Jesus"!!!
If you insist on placing the separation at the end of the kingdom, what kingdom do you suppose they are inheritting? Christ no longer holds the kingdom after the thousand years.During the Millennium the NATIONS will form so that, when Satan is released for a short time, goat nations will be deceived! Outwardly, during the Age to Come, they will worship God just to be eligible for material gain
from the rain needed for their crops (Zech.14:16-21)!! It's not the
Goats who wonder why they don't inherit the Kingdom...but the Sheep that wonder why they DO inherit the Kingdom!!!
If you insist on the separation of Goats from the Sheep at the start of
the period during which Christ "sits on His throne" (Matt.25:31), then you
must acknowledge a different "way of salvation" is available other than
faith alone in Christ! During the Millennium, there will be no need for
faith; for "all will know the Lord, from the least to the greatest"!! Only by
recognizing the formation of SHEEP NATIONS during the Millennium do we see why Rev.21:24-26 states they will "bring their glory and honor into the New Jersualam" AFTER it comes down from heaven!!!
Mel Miller www.lastday.net
1 Corinthians 15:24-25
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Brother Jeremy Slone
New Member
James_Newman said:Not at all.
Ok then, i might see life maybe the same as you then, but everlasting life an eternal life would be the same to me. I could see like a tapping into it here time. Kinda like having eternal salvation and ejoying that salvation here in time. But any how in Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I look at the above scriptures to be here time. Few there be that find it. I look at as christians walking upright before God and the other being Christians deceived or not walking upright per say. In revelation John saw a number no man can number. I believe the elect will be as the stars of heaven, sands of the shore, and the dust of the earth.
one more question for ya. Are you a "pre", "post", or "a" on the millennial?
James_Newman
New Member
Definitely pre-millennial.Brother Jeremy Slone said:Ok then, i might see life maybe the same as you then, but everlasting life an eternal life would be the same to me. I could see like a tapping into it here time. Kinda like having eternal salvation and ejoying that salvation here in time. But any how in Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I look at the above scriptures to be here time. Few there be that find it. I look at as christians walking upright before God and the other being Christians deceived or not walking upright per say. In revelation John saw a number no man can number. I believe the elect will be as the stars of heaven, sands of the shore, and the dust of the earth.
one more question for ya. Are you a "pre", "post", or "a" on the millennial?
Brother Jeremy Slone
New Member
I guess i got lost on what this whole debate is on now.
Brother Jeremy Slone
New Member
James_Newman said:1 Corinthians 15:24-25
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Couldn't this be the kingdom John saw in revelations (New Jerusalem) and Christ spoke of in Luke 17:21
Mel Miller
New Member
James_Newman said:Well whatever eternal life Jesus is speaking about in this passage is based on how they treated the least of the brethren. This is yet another clear reason to keep it separate from the free gift of eternal salvation which is based solely on believing on Christ and has nothing whatsoever to do with how we treat the brethren.
_____________________________________________________________
My Response:
Your statement verifies the fact I just presented that, since the Sheep Nations inherit eternal life based on their works and NOT on their faith, their receipt of eternal life and inheritance of an eternal Kingdom on Earth is obtained at the End of Christ’s Reign; NOT at the beginning of His Reign!
Your Quote:
_____________________________________________________________
“If you insist on placing the separation at the end of the kingdom, what kingdom do you suppose they are inheriting? Christ no longer holds the kingdom after the thousand years”.
1 Corinthians 15:24-25
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
___________________________________________________________________
My Response:
Please note the Sheep and Goat Nations must earn the right to inherit the Earthly Kingdom while Christ rules over the Nations on Earth…since all who are saved as of His coming are saved by faith alone! He rules on earth only during the Millennium and the Sheep receive eternal life based on their works during the Millennium!! Only then will the Sheep inherit the Kingdom so that “God’s will may be done on earth as it is in heaven”!!!
There is no possibility of Sheep Nations existing at the start of the Christ’s reign since the destiny of every Believer in Christ is to “serve God and the Lamb” in heaven for all eternity! The destiny of the Sheep Nations is to “inherit the eternal Kingdom on the New Earth!! This Kingdom will have its own KINGS who “bring their glory and honor into The New Jerusalem”!!!
“The nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of the New Jerusalem; and the Kings of earth do bring their glory and honor into it”! Rev.21:24-26. After Christ destroys all His enemies, He will no longer be the ruler over the Kingdom of God on earth which will have its own Kings!! These Kings will enter the Eternal City “at any time in order to be healed by the leaves of the Tree of Life”!!! Rev.22:2,14.
Mel Miller www.lastday.net
Sister Helen has "Hit the Bullseye" again
Blackbird's keen observation
Sheep must be sheered of their wool-----Baa, Baa Black Sheep! Have you any wool??? Yes Sir, Yes Sir, Three bags full!!!
Goats have no wool
In the Biblical analogy-----
Jesus Christ is the Great Shepherd of the Sheep
Nowhere does the Bible say He is the Shepherd of the Goats
Therefore for the Goat to be saved---he must be adopted into the sheep family
Blackbird's keen observation
Sheep must be sheered of their wool-----Baa, Baa Black Sheep! Have you any wool??? Yes Sir, Yes Sir, Three bags full!!!
Goats have no wool
In the Biblical analogy-----
Jesus Christ is the Great Shepherd of the Sheep
Nowhere does the Bible say He is the Shepherd of the Goats
Therefore for the Goat to be saved---he must be adopted into the sheep family
To correct someone's post...genetically speaking...sheep are different from goats! THey are a different KIND of animal.
I guess I am not sure where the verse is, but "Jesus laid down His life for the goats and the sheep."
Some try to overcomplicate what God is saying in order to fit into their system. Just read it for what it says....when Christ comes back, He will separate the sheep from the goats (the saved from the lost) and send them on their ETERNAL homes (heaven and hell). When you always have to try and fit a literal 1000 yr earthly kingdom into the picture, you must chop at the scripture and make it fit. So many passages are misinterpreted because of people trying to conform them to their system.
I guess I am not sure where the verse is, but "Jesus laid down His life for the goats and the sheep."
Some try to overcomplicate what God is saying in order to fit into their system. Just read it for what it says....when Christ comes back, He will separate the sheep from the goats (the saved from the lost) and send them on their ETERNAL homes (heaven and hell). When you always have to try and fit a literal 1000 yr earthly kingdom into the picture, you must chop at the scripture and make it fit. So many passages are misinterpreted because of people trying to conform them to their system.
James_Newman
New Member
Mel Miller said:James_Newman said:Well whatever eternal life Jesus is speaking about in this passage is based on how they treated the least of the brethren. This is yet another clear reason to keep it separate from the free gift of eternal salvation which is based solely on believing on Christ and has nothing whatsoever to do with how we treat the brethren.
_____________________________________________________________
My Response:
Your statement verifies the fact I just presented that, since the Sheep Nations inherit eternal life based on their works and NOT on their faith, their receipt of eternal life and inheritance of an eternal Kingdom on Earth is obtained at the End of Christ’s Reign; NOT at the beginning of His Reign!
Or it verifies what others have said, that eternal life must be rightly divided. We do not recieve the kingdom through faith alone, that much is clear throughout scripture. It is required that those who would reign should also suffer.
2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2 Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
But we do not have to suffer to be raised up on the last day. That is a free gift to all who believe on Jesus Christ.
As I said above, you and I must earn the right to inherit the kingdom. It is a reward for obedience and suffering for Christ. I don't know where the bible says our destiny is to serve God in heaven either. Lets look again at what these "sheep nations" are being rewarded for.Your Quote:
_____________________________________________________________
“If you insist on placing the separation at the end of the kingdom, what kingdom do you suppose they are inheriting? Christ no longer holds the kingdom after the thousand years”.
1 Corinthians 15:24-25
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
___________________________________________________________________
My Response:
Please note the Sheep and Goat Nations must earn the right to inherit the Earthly Kingdom while Christ rules over the Nations on Earth…since all who are saved as of His coming are saved by faith alone! He rules on earth only during the Millennium and the Sheep receive eternal life based on their works during the Millennium!! Only then will the Sheep inherit the Kingdom so that “God’s will may be done on earth as it is in heaven”!!!
There is no possibility of Sheep Nations existing at the start of the Christ’s reign since the destiny of every Believer in Christ is to “serve God and the Lamb” in heaven for all eternity! The destiny of the Sheep Nations is to “inherit the eternal Kingdom on the New Earth!! This Kingdom will have its own KINGS who “bring their glory and honor into The New Jerusalem”!!!
“The nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of the New Jerusalem; and the Kings of earth do bring their glory and honor into it”! Rev.21:24-26. After Christ destroys all His enemies, He will no longer be the ruler over the Kingdom of God on earth which will have its own Kings!! These Kings will enter the Eternal City “at any time in order to be healed by the leaves of the Tree of Life”!!! Rev.22:2,14.
Mel Miller www.lastday.net
Matthew 25:35-37
35 For I was hungry, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Naked and in prison? Where in the bible does it say that there is going to be these types of suffering in the kingdom? Obviously these "sheep" are being rewarded for actions performed in this age, not the millennial kingdom. In this age, we have hunger, sickness, persecution. I don't believe you will see these things in Christ's glorious kingdom.
[sarcasm]
Scripture says "a dog returns to its vomit", which is most commonly interpreted to mean an unregenerate person will go back to his/her old ways, even if they seem to depart from them for a while.
But my dog was so cute and cuddly, I can't imagine that scripture actually means to paint dogs as unregenerate. I guess I'll have to reinterpret scripture according to how cute my dog was.
[/sarcasm]
Scripture says "a dog returns to its vomit", which is most commonly interpreted to mean an unregenerate person will go back to his/her old ways, even if they seem to depart from them for a while.
But my dog was so cute and cuddly, I can't imagine that scripture actually means to paint dogs as unregenerate. I guess I'll have to reinterpret scripture according to how cute my dog was.
[/sarcasm]
Mel Miller
New Member
James,
Here are three quotes from you:
____________________________________________________________
“As I said above, you and I must earn the right to inherit the kingdom. It is a reward for obedience and suffering for Christ. I don't know where the bible says our destiny is to serve God in heaven either. Let’s look again at what these "sheep nations" are being rewarded for”.
“There is no reason why a believer may not experience hell and still be eternally saved at the great white throne”.
“Well whatever eternal life Jesus is speaking about in this passage is based on how they treated the least of the brethren. This is yet another clear reason to keep it separate from the free gift of eternal salvation which is based solely on believing on Christ and has nothing whatsoever to do with how we treat the brethren.
_____________________________________________________________
My Response:
How can you have a work's “criteria” for receiving eternal life based on how people treat the brethren of Jesus during this present Age?
You admit above that Jesus is speaking of eternal life as a REWARD; not as a free gift! You present a dual condition during this Age for eternal life of Believers and sheep nations!! One for Believers which is not always “without end” (if they go to Hell during the Millennium) and one for Sheep Nations based on works performed during this present Age!!!
The condition for receiving "eternal life" (for the Sheep alone) is that of how men treat the least of Jesus' brethren while He "sits on His throne"! Matt.24:31.
The source for “serving God in heaven” is Rev.22:3. That is the destiny for ALL Believers and of none of the Sheep! Sheep Nations are not members of the Lamb’s Bride but “inherit the earthly Kingdom” while the Bride of the Lamb will “dwell forever in the New Jerusalem”!! The Kings from the Nations will not “inhabit the New Jerusalem”; but must “bring their glory and honor and enter it at any time to be healed by te leaves of the Tree of Life”!!! Rev.21:24-26; Rev.22:2,14.
Are you still claiming some Believers may be sent to Hell during the Millennium while Satan suffers in the Abyss? Are you still arguing that “eternal” doesn’t mean “without end” in the case of Believers who are sent to Hell during the Millennium?? Even though you finally admit Believers who suffer in Hell will be “eternally saved at the great white throne judgment”, is not your view one of salvation by works during this Age…both for Sheep Nations and for Believers who may suffer Hell for
1000 years???
Mel Miller www.lastday.net
Here are three quotes from you:
____________________________________________________________
“As I said above, you and I must earn the right to inherit the kingdom. It is a reward for obedience and suffering for Christ. I don't know where the bible says our destiny is to serve God in heaven either. Let’s look again at what these "sheep nations" are being rewarded for”.
“There is no reason why a believer may not experience hell and still be eternally saved at the great white throne”.
“Well whatever eternal life Jesus is speaking about in this passage is based on how they treated the least of the brethren. This is yet another clear reason to keep it separate from the free gift of eternal salvation which is based solely on believing on Christ and has nothing whatsoever to do with how we treat the brethren.
_____________________________________________________________
My Response:
How can you have a work's “criteria” for receiving eternal life based on how people treat the brethren of Jesus during this present Age?
You admit above that Jesus is speaking of eternal life as a REWARD; not as a free gift! You present a dual condition during this Age for eternal life of Believers and sheep nations!! One for Believers which is not always “without end” (if they go to Hell during the Millennium) and one for Sheep Nations based on works performed during this present Age!!!
The condition for receiving "eternal life" (for the Sheep alone) is that of how men treat the least of Jesus' brethren while He "sits on His throne"! Matt.24:31.
The source for “serving God in heaven” is Rev.22:3. That is the destiny for ALL Believers and of none of the Sheep! Sheep Nations are not members of the Lamb’s Bride but “inherit the earthly Kingdom” while the Bride of the Lamb will “dwell forever in the New Jerusalem”!! The Kings from the Nations will not “inhabit the New Jerusalem”; but must “bring their glory and honor and enter it at any time to be healed by te leaves of the Tree of Life”!!! Rev.21:24-26; Rev.22:2,14.
Are you still claiming some Believers may be sent to Hell during the Millennium while Satan suffers in the Abyss? Are you still arguing that “eternal” doesn’t mean “without end” in the case of Believers who are sent to Hell during the Millennium?? Even though you finally admit Believers who suffer in Hell will be “eternally saved at the great white throne judgment”, is not your view one of salvation by works during this Age…both for Sheep Nations and for Believers who may suffer Hell for
1000 years???
Mel Miller www.lastday.net
James_Newman
New Member
Mel Miller said:James,
Here are three quotes from you:
____________________________________________________________
“As I said above, you and I must earn the right to inherit the kingdom. It is a reward for obedience and suffering for Christ. I don't know where the bible says our destiny is to serve God in heaven either. Let’s look again at what these "sheep nations" are being rewarded for”.
“There is no reason why a believer may not experience hell and still be eternally saved at the great white throne”.
“Well whatever eternal life Jesus is speaking about in this passage is based on how they treated the least of the brethren. This is yet another clear reason to keep it separate from the free gift of eternal salvation which is based solely on believing on Christ and has nothing whatsoever to do with how we treat the brethren.
_____________________________________________________________
My Response:
How can you have a work's “criteria” for receiving eternal life based on how people treat the brethren of Jesus during this present Age?
You admit above that Jesus is speaking of eternal life as a REWARD; not as a free gift! You present a dual condition during this Age for eternal life of Believers and sheep nations!! One for Believers which is not always “without end” (if they go to Hell during the Millennium) and one for Sheep Nations based on works performed during this present Age!!!
I'm presenting a dual eternal life. One is for unbelievers, it is a free gift if you believe, and it is recieved on the last day. One is for believers and it is a reward. A free gift is not a reward. Just because these things are both referred to as eternal life doesn't mean they are the same thing. As a believer you have eternal life and nothing will take that away. But that doesn't automatically get you the reward. Inheritting eternal life during the kingdom age is conditional.
The condition for receiving "eternal life" (for the Sheep alone) is that of how men treat the least of Jesus' brethren while He "sits on His throne"! Matt.24:31.
Then I ask again, what are Christ's brethren doing in prison while He is on the throne?
The source for “serving God in heaven” is Rev.22:3. That is the destiny for ALL Believers and of none of the Sheep! Sheep Nations are not members of the Lamb’s Bride but “inherit the earthly Kingdom” while the Bride of the Lamb will “dwell forever in the New Jerusalem”!! The Kings from the Nations will not “inhabit the New Jerusalem”; but must “bring their glory and honor and enter it at any time to be healed by te leaves of the Tree of Life”!!! Rev.21:24-26; Rev.22:2,14.
New Jerusalem is on the earth.
Revelation 21:2-3
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
If by 'heaven' you mean the eternal age after the great white throne, fine. If you mean the place up above the 2nd heaven, I don't see that in scripture. As for who will inhabit the city, I would presume it will be those who reigned with Him during the millennial age. But I won't be dogmatic about it. But the earth it appears will be filled with the 'nations of the saved'. Saved people, not unsaved people.
Salvation into the kingdom is by faith and works, a reward. Salvation at the great white throne is by faith alone, and no amount of sin will cancel that free gift.Are you still claiming some Believers may be sent to Hell during the Millennium while Satan suffers in the Abyss? Are you still arguing that “eternal” doesn’t mean “without end” in the case of Believers who are sent to Hell during the Millennium?? Even though you finally admit Believers who suffer in Hell will be “eternally saved at the great white throne judgment”, is not your view one of salvation by works during this Age…both for Sheep Nations and for Believers who may suffer Hell for
1000 years???
Mel Miller www.lastday.net
Mel Miller
New Member
James,
I wrote:
The condition for receiving "eternal life" (for the Sheep alone) is that of how men treat the least of Jesus' brethren while He "sits on His throne"! Matt.24:31.
Your Response: Then I ask again, what are Christ's brethren doing in prison while He is on the throne?
______________________________________________________
My Reply:
With this question you have forced me to modify my explanation regarding the original subjects of the Millennial Kingdom! But it will not immediately become an earthly Kingdom separate from the New Jerusalem!! Its final subjects will be determined at the End of the Millennial Reign of Christ after He separates the Goat Nations, subduing all enemies, and subjects Himself to God!!! I Cor.15:24-28.
Those who “sit on thrones” in the Kingdom are Believers who “overcome to the End”! Rev.2:25-27. Those who “enter the Kingdom also includes unbelievers who are “left behind of the nations that come against Jerusalem” at the end of this Age”!! Zech.14:16. These former “unbelievers” will be composed of sheep and goats; the sheep sincerely “beg to escape and to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36) and the goats “are willing to die” (among the Twosomes that are left behind)…but only because they wish to be “kept alive”!!! Luke 17:30-33.
The sheep and their offspring will continue to sincerely worship God! But the goats will outwardly worship God only to “receive rain for their crops”!! They and their offspring will finally produce the Goat Nations to be separated from the Sheep Nations at the end of “the Age to Come”…for then and only then will the goats be cast into Hell and join the Beast and False Prophet AND Satan who will also be cast into Hell at the End of the Millennium!!! Rev.19:20; Rev.20:3,10.
This does not mean Believers who fail to “overcome to the End” will “suffer in hell” for 1000 years as you propose! They will not “sit on thrones” to rule with Christ for 1000 years!! But they will still be members of the Bride of the Lamb and will “dwell forever in the New Jerusalem” while Kings of the Sheep Nations “inherit the eternal Kingdom” on earth and enter the New Jerusalem at any time thereafter…for the City is the “Bride of the Lamb” and God will only “dwell with the Body of Christ and be served by them for eternity”!!! Rev.21:2,9; Rev.22:3.
I would modify your closing statement by inserting words in parenthesis:
"Salvation (entrance) into the kingdom is by faith (reward to Believers) and by works (for those left behind having begged to escape or to be kept alive; because of their good treatment of Christ's brethren), a reward (for unbelievers who qualify). Salvation (continuance of eternal life) at the great white throne is by faith alone (for Saints) and no amount of sin will cancel that free gift" (but the New Jerusalem is still the eternal home of the Bride alone and inheritance is based on faith alone; while those who inherit the earthly kingdom "go into eternal life" and dwell on the earth forever because of their and their offsprings' true worship of God)".
Mel Miller www.lastday.net
I wrote:
The condition for receiving "eternal life" (for the Sheep alone) is that of how men treat the least of Jesus' brethren while He "sits on His throne"! Matt.24:31.
Your Response: Then I ask again, what are Christ's brethren doing in prison while He is on the throne?
______________________________________________________
My Reply:
With this question you have forced me to modify my explanation regarding the original subjects of the Millennial Kingdom! But it will not immediately become an earthly Kingdom separate from the New Jerusalem!! Its final subjects will be determined at the End of the Millennial Reign of Christ after He separates the Goat Nations, subduing all enemies, and subjects Himself to God!!! I Cor.15:24-28.
Those who “sit on thrones” in the Kingdom are Believers who “overcome to the End”! Rev.2:25-27. Those who “enter the Kingdom also includes unbelievers who are “left behind of the nations that come against Jerusalem” at the end of this Age”!! Zech.14:16. These former “unbelievers” will be composed of sheep and goats; the sheep sincerely “beg to escape and to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36) and the goats “are willing to die” (among the Twosomes that are left behind)…but only because they wish to be “kept alive”!!! Luke 17:30-33.
The sheep and their offspring will continue to sincerely worship God! But the goats will outwardly worship God only to “receive rain for their crops”!! They and their offspring will finally produce the Goat Nations to be separated from the Sheep Nations at the end of “the Age to Come”…for then and only then will the goats be cast into Hell and join the Beast and False Prophet AND Satan who will also be cast into Hell at the End of the Millennium!!! Rev.19:20; Rev.20:3,10.
This does not mean Believers who fail to “overcome to the End” will “suffer in hell” for 1000 years as you propose! They will not “sit on thrones” to rule with Christ for 1000 years!! But they will still be members of the Bride of the Lamb and will “dwell forever in the New Jerusalem” while Kings of the Sheep Nations “inherit the eternal Kingdom” on earth and enter the New Jerusalem at any time thereafter…for the City is the “Bride of the Lamb” and God will only “dwell with the Body of Christ and be served by them for eternity”!!! Rev.21:2,9; Rev.22:3.
I would modify your closing statement by inserting words in parenthesis:
"Salvation (entrance) into the kingdom is by faith (reward to Believers) and by works (for those left behind having begged to escape or to be kept alive; because of their good treatment of Christ's brethren), a reward (for unbelievers who qualify). Salvation (continuance of eternal life) at the great white throne is by faith alone (for Saints) and no amount of sin will cancel that free gift" (but the New Jerusalem is still the eternal home of the Bride alone and inheritance is based on faith alone; while those who inherit the earthly kingdom "go into eternal life" and dwell on the earth forever because of their and their offsprings' true worship of God)".
Mel Miller www.lastday.net
Last edited by a moderator:
Mel Miller
New Member
James and Friends,
I must now support your view that the Sheep Nations do begin to “inherit the earthly Kingdom” at the start of Christ’s Reign! This fact is determined by their treatment of Christ’s brethren before the Millennium begins!! It is verified by His use of the Aorist Imperative: “Inherit ye the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world”!!! Matt.25:32-34.
The issue we were discussing concerns the “timing” for Sheep and Goat Nations to “go into eternal judgment or eternal life”! This occurs at the End of the Millennium by involving a change from "one state of existing side by side to their separate eternal destinations by His use of the Future Indicative (Strong’s #565; Matt. 25:46)!! Eternal possession by saved nations of the earthly kingdom (Rev.21:24-26) awaits the New Heaven and Earth where eternal “separation” of Sheep and Goats begins at the same time the Bride of the Lamb “shall inherit (Future Indicative) the New Jerusalem forever”!!! Rev.21:7. [Only at the great white throne will unrighteous people and nations be judged and sent to Hell].
Thanks, James, for hanging in there until this distinction could be made clear in my own remarks! I was “hung up” on the necessity to maintain eternal salvation by faith alone (for the Bride of Christ) as opposed to the reward to Believers and to those “left behind” of reigning over the earthly Kingdom!! The latter are Jews who “mourn and beg to escape and prevail to stand before the Son of Man” AND/OR those “left of the Nations who are kept alive among every Twosome if they are willing to die”!!! Luke 21:36; Luke 17:30-33; Joel 2:32; Rom.11:25-27; Zech.14:16; Rev.15:4.
Only the righteous are “left behind to reign over the goat nations in the Earthly Kingdom until they go into eternal life or into the New Jerusalem”; but only those born again prior to Christ’s “Arrival” as King (#2240; Rev.2:25-27) possess eternal life as a result of their faith alone! And only those of His Bride who “overcome to the End” will sit on earthly thrones for 1000 years (Future Indicative) while waiting to inherit the New Jerusalem!! But Martyrs will “serve God as Pillars in the Temple of Heaven day and night and the Lamb will feed them and shepherd them and lead them into living fountains of water” (Future Indicative) for 1000 years until the New Jerusalem comes down over a New Earth!!! Rev.3:11-12; Rev.7:14-17; Rev.20:4-6.
Mel Miller www.lastday.net
I must now support your view that the Sheep Nations do begin to “inherit the earthly Kingdom” at the start of Christ’s Reign! This fact is determined by their treatment of Christ’s brethren before the Millennium begins!! It is verified by His use of the Aorist Imperative: “Inherit ye the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world”!!! Matt.25:32-34.
The issue we were discussing concerns the “timing” for Sheep and Goat Nations to “go into eternal judgment or eternal life”! This occurs at the End of the Millennium by involving a change from "one state of existing side by side to their separate eternal destinations by His use of the Future Indicative (Strong’s #565; Matt. 25:46)!! Eternal possession by saved nations of the earthly kingdom (Rev.21:24-26) awaits the New Heaven and Earth where eternal “separation” of Sheep and Goats begins at the same time the Bride of the Lamb “shall inherit (Future Indicative) the New Jerusalem forever”!!! Rev.21:7. [Only at the great white throne will unrighteous people and nations be judged and sent to Hell].
Thanks, James, for hanging in there until this distinction could be made clear in my own remarks! I was “hung up” on the necessity to maintain eternal salvation by faith alone (for the Bride of Christ) as opposed to the reward to Believers and to those “left behind” of reigning over the earthly Kingdom!! The latter are Jews who “mourn and beg to escape and prevail to stand before the Son of Man” AND/OR those “left of the Nations who are kept alive among every Twosome if they are willing to die”!!! Luke 21:36; Luke 17:30-33; Joel 2:32; Rom.11:25-27; Zech.14:16; Rev.15:4.
Only the righteous are “left behind to reign over the goat nations in the Earthly Kingdom until they go into eternal life or into the New Jerusalem”; but only those born again prior to Christ’s “Arrival” as King (#2240; Rev.2:25-27) possess eternal life as a result of their faith alone! And only those of His Bride who “overcome to the End” will sit on earthly thrones for 1000 years (Future Indicative) while waiting to inherit the New Jerusalem!! But Martyrs will “serve God as Pillars in the Temple of Heaven day and night and the Lamb will feed them and shepherd them and lead them into living fountains of water” (Future Indicative) for 1000 years until the New Jerusalem comes down over a New Earth!!! Rev.3:11-12; Rev.7:14-17; Rev.20:4-6.
Mel Miller www.lastday.net
2 Timothy2:1-4
New Member
Yep I have seen this before. The two salvations theory. I wish I could remember the site I seen it on. Maybe one of these fellas that hold to this theory could point me to one.
Believers burn in hell for a thousand years. John 3:16 is not speaking to eternal salvation. And many more theories. You would be better of to study the ideology as a whole before you get into a discussion with these guys. If I can find one of the sites I will post it.
Believers burn in hell for a thousand years. John 3:16 is not speaking to eternal salvation. And many more theories. You would be better of to study the ideology as a whole before you get into a discussion with these guys. If I can find one of the sites I will post it.