Sheep or Goat?

[Van]

Nothing you have reported about Dr. Wallace's view conflicts with my grammatical anaylsis of that passage. "chosen to/for salvation" is a legitimate translation. However, nothing you or Dr. Wallace can say that changes the grammatical fact that the term translated "salvation" is found in the accusative case - the well known case of termination of action that is commonly used for the direct object and in this text is its obvious use. Nothing you or Dr. Wallace can say that changes the grammatical fact that "through (dia) sanctification by the Spirit and belief of the truth" modifies "salvation."

I presented hard contextual evidence it refers to justification not salvation in general, and so where is your evidence to the contrary?????? None! Zilch, Nada!
.
First, this text is found in the context of experiential salvation rather than God's eternal purpose of salvation. Second, He is describing their current condition as opposed to their previous condition. So, you are forcing into the text your own opinions which are totally false.

1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 and 2 Pet. 1:10 both clearly teach what you claim is aburd! Both teach that a current child of God can know they are of God's elect which means that a child of God can either be ignornat of their election or can have doubt about their election.

You know very well the order repudiates your view. Purpose stands first (v. 28) just as a blue print stands first with a builder of a house which explains foreknowledge of every door, window, light socket, every aspect of that house BEFORE it is built and thus election according to the foreknowledge of God rests upon God's eternal purpose not merely as some bystander who looks into a crystal ball and foresees faith and then elects which is irrational as faith is a gift of God rather than something merely foreseen in sinners.

How were we chosen, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit.
On what basis were we chosen, through faith in the truth.

No need to respond to your false claims concerning non-germane citations.

 

[Yeshua1]

Always repeating the same questions, but never answering questions.

Did God formulate His Redemption plan before creation? Yes
Did God choose His Redeemer before creation? Yes
Did God choose us in Him corporately before creation? Yes
Did we live not as a chosen people during our lifetime? Yes

Therefore God chose us individually during our lifetime after He credited our faith as righteousness.
Otherwise our faith would not have provided the access to the grace in which we stand.

Expected responses: (1) None,
(2) Change of subject
(3) Taint so

Did God choose save us on an individual basis, even before we received Jesus thru faith?

 

[Yeshua1]

Already answered by The Biblicist in a previous thread and long ago by the vaunted 1689 London Baptist Assembly:



Indeed the 1689 London Baptist Assembly had to address what The Biblicist has termed "this confusion between purpose and reality, the mother of many false doctrines":

p. 14, A Narrative of the Proceeding of the General Assembly (London, 1689)

"the reconciliation, justification, and adoption of believers, are infallibly secured by the gracious purpose of God, and merit of Jesus Christ. Yet none can be said to be actually reconciled, justified, or adopted, until they are really implanted into Jesus Christ by faith; and so by virtue of this their union with him, have these fundamental benefits actually conveyed unto them. And this, we conceive, is fully evidenced, because the scripture attributes all these benefits to faith as the instrumental cause of them, Rom. iii. 25. v. 1, 11. Gal. iii. 26. And gives such representation of the state of the elect before faith, as is altogether inconsistent with an actual right in them. Eph. ii. 1, 2, 3, 12."

The 1689 Confession agrees with the Bible on this!

 

[Yeshua1]

Did all men die in Adam?

Yes, and the elect are saved in Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Hello B,
Yes, I lean to the Infralapsarian position.The lamb being slain from the foundation of the world.
All died in Adam. Eph2:1-3...even as others..
Vs 4
.But God who is rich in Mercy..

We were all born spiritually dead, and all of us in the Kingdom of satan, so how could we all not be goats at that point in time?

 

[Van]

Did God choose save us on an individual basis, even before we received Jesus thru faith?

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 is clear, unless you deny conditional election. God chose us for salvation from the beginning of the New Covenant by setting us apart in Christ by the Spirit, based on our accredited faith in the truth. So we were not only saved by grace through faith, we were chosen for salvation through faith. James 2:5 is also crystal, God chose those (1) poor to the world, (2) rich in faith, and (3) heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God.

 

[Iconoclast]

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 is clear, unless you deny conditional election. God chose us for salvation from the beginning of the New Covenant by setting us apart in Christ by the Spirit, based on our accredited faith in the truth. So we were not only saved by grace through faith, we were chosen for salvation through faith. James 2:5 is also crystal, God chose those (1) poor to the world, (2) rich in faith, and (3) heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God.

Another off topic post.it is interesting how you just reword scripture whenever you feel to do that....

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 5:15 AM Pacific.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

Six Hour Warning
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