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Should a Deacon
- Thread starter Berean
- Start date
Many people do not understand how easily it can happen even with careful management of one's income. Most Americans live only a month or two from homelessness.
Some of the Issues on this Board are....
.....nothing more than judgment calls. The key here is "judgment" and the last time I read the Bible, judging another is a sin.
If the church has made this part of their by-laws for the position, than so-be-it! If not, it should matter and not be brought up.
I assume the OP must have a hidden-agenda for bringing this up, like someone in their church, probably a deacon (maybe they are the deacon and facing bankruptcy) is being judged.
Sometimes this board amazes me. And if it amazes me, I can only imagine how much it must amaze God?
raying:
.....nothing more than judgment calls. The key here is "judgment" and the last time I read the Bible, judging another is a sin.
If the church has made this part of their by-laws for the position, than so-be-it! If not, it should matter and not be brought up.
I assume the OP must have a hidden-agenda for bringing this up, like someone in their church, probably a deacon (maybe they are the deacon and facing bankruptcy) is being judged.
Sometimes this board amazes me. And if it amazes me, I can only imagine how much it must amaze God?
raying:I certainly was not.
convicted1
Guest
If he did this just to get away from his responsibilty of paying his debts, he should step down. If he has fallen on hard times and can not pay them, and in the process, maybe lose all he and his family has, then he should be able to carry on his duties as a deacon.
freeatlast
New Member
I implied nothing. I say what I mean and mean what I say. Your problem is like most who claim to be Christians. Instead of believing what is written you read into the text what you want to see. You have a date rape approach to the bible and what people says. No means full steam ahead to you.
freeatlast
New Member
Amy you are adding to what I said. I never used the term "irresponsible crook" and I never said "everyone." You are not telling the truth with such statements. Your implication of such is actually a lie.
Believers on this forum could be discussing the over-haul of a 1957 Chevy Transmission but looking beyond the specific topic..., judging is the real topic.
John the Baptist is the only man recorded in the Bible who was born with the Spirit of the Lord already in place. (Luke 1:17, "And he shall go before Him in the spirit and power of Elias....") The rest of us are subject to all sort of imperfections, including you!
It might just be a healthy endeavor for us if we give some of the less fortunate a break now and again.
John the Baptist is the only man recorded in the Bible who was born with the Spirit of the Lord already in place. (Luke 1:17, "And he shall go before Him in the spirit and power of Elias....") The rest of us are subject to all sort of imperfections, including you!
It might just be a healthy endeavor for us if we give some of the less fortunate a break now and again.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Oh stop your nonsense fal, no one is "adding to what you've said." Get control of yourself here. If she put it in quotes, then maybe she might be adding to what you said. You're the one adding to what she said, that is what is happening.
Amy never said you made those statements. You really need to learn how to treat others as a Christian would. You and your calling others liars is getting really really old and becoming more and more frequent. Fact is, it is you who is stretching the truth and exaggerating what others say in order for you to make your statements. Learn to stop misrepresenting people, as you are bearing false witness here.
Amy isn't lying, you need to apologize and learn how to get along with others and quit fabricating what others say.
Last edited by a moderator:
preacher4truth
Active Member
This is a good question. I think the answer depends upon the situation itself, and must be prayerfully considered.
Many persons have lost jobs, are in debt, and are losing things as a result. I think one thing is to keep this information from spreading around in the church.
I've had a deacon in the past that had filed bankruptcy, yet paid back his debts.
freeatlast
New Member
Amy does not normally do that. She usually speaks the truth with others, but in this case she added to what I said. You have displeasure in hearing the truth because you yuorself commonly misquote others and add to what they say.
What is troubling and sad is that it would appear that Fal seems to forgotten that to them that have been forgiven of their debt, that the Lord expects us to show same kind of forgiveness towards others...
he does not seem to see that his posting are tinged with legalism and judgement upon situations and peoples....
As others have said, it depends on the situation and the heart of the deacon. If it was irresponsibility and greed, then yes, he should be removed. However, if it was due to circumstances beyond his control, and he desires to work at paying back all of his creditors in time, then I'd say that he is working within Biblical guidelines.
This is true but we are talking about more than just "the less fortunate". We are speaking of a man who is working in a role in the church that has requirements set forth. Do we ignore that part of Scripture? I'd hope not.
This is true but we are talking about more than just "the less fortunate". We are speaking of a man who is working in a role in the church that has requirements set forth. Do we ignore that part of Scripture? I'd hope not.
I didn't claim that you said "irresponsible crook". I should have clarified my statement by saying that's how your posts come across to me. You said that "usually" bankruptcy is the result of mismanagement of money and you just can't make such a blanket statement, especially considering the state of our economy.
I give God the glory for working it all out. But even if it had gone to court, I would have received nothing. I lost a lot, but that's ok. God has more than provided for me. The bank got the property and the interest. I had no debt otherwise, so I have kept nothing that I didn't pay for. We have always lived beneath our means and had very little debt, so I'm not irresponsible. My financial troubles were business related only, not personal. I'm sure you can understand how this economy has affected the small business man.
My point in all this is that when it comes to choosing a deacon, every situation should be looked at on an individual basis. Some people do end up in bankruptcy due to irresponsibility and some have no choice. We can't make blanket statements like "usually" it's the fault of the person.
And before we condemn others for their debt, let us not forget the Sabbath year of the Jews in which all debt was forgiven. What a great concept!
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
Here's the kicker. He expects us to show forgiveness towards those that owe us. He doesn't expect the borrower to take that forgiveness by force, effectively stealing the money owed.
I am not judging any person. I am calling sin sin. It is a sin to steal. Not paying what you owe is stealing.
Again, I don't judge any person. That's reserved for God alone. But if someone sins, it's not judgmental to say "He's sinning". If a person is drunk, it's not judgmental to call him a drunkard. If someone has murdered, it's not judgmental to call him a murderer. If someone steals...
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
I feel compelled to point out that I don't think that bankrupcy makes one ineligible as a deacon forever. Just until the situation is dealt with, and all creditors are paid back, so that his testimony is restored.
And we need to be clear as well: people keep throwing the emotional argument of having compassion on the 'less fortunate', or those in debt. This isn't about the less fortunate or those in debt. Debt is not the issue. Most people have some form of debt. The issue is bankrupcy, or declaring that you're not going to repay those that you owe, stealing from them.
And we need to be clear as well: people keep throwing the emotional argument of having compassion on the 'less fortunate', or those in debt. This isn't about the less fortunate or those in debt. Debt is not the issue. Most people have some form of debt. The issue is bankrupcy, or declaring that you're not going to repay those that you owe, stealing from them.
Yes. :thumbs:
Baloney! I stole nothing from anybody! Did you read my posts??
As far as it causing one to lose his or her testimony, filing bankruptcy today has lost a lot of its stigma in society. For that reason, I don't think that losing one's testimony over it is as likely as it once was.
Like so many of you, I think each case should be examined based on its merit. Regardless, I think that many Christians who file bankruptcy learn a valuable lesson about managing their finances.
I pastored a church where two deacons filed bankruptcy...Chapter 7. The deacon body knew about both cases. Both men offered to resign. The deacon body, and I, agreed that they should continue to serve. It never became an issue. For us, it was a matter of extending a measure of grace to them.
Like so many of you, I think each case should be examined based on its merit. Regardless, I think that many Christians who file bankruptcy learn a valuable lesson about managing their finances.
I pastored a church where two deacons filed bankruptcy...Chapter 7. The deacon body knew about both cases. Both men offered to resign. The deacon body, and I, agreed that they should continue to serve. It never became an issue. For us, it was a matter of extending a measure of grace to them.