Should a good Christian be patriotic?

[Revmitchell]

And the GOP justices did SO MUCH to stop abortion. The highly acclaimed ban on partial birth abortions allowed 99.8% of abortions to continue, just enough to placate their supporters and still allowing millions to die.

There is no Prolife party, one is only slightly less pro-murder and knows how to play their supporters.

Yes they have:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/heal...won-the-fight-over-abortion-in-texas-20140306

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...ion-Clinics-Closing-At-Record-Rate-Nationwide


http://www.jillstanek.com/2010/11/31-us-abortion-clinics-have-closed-in-past-12-months/

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gl...-closing-planned-parenthood-abby-johnson.html

 

[OldRegular]

Yes they have:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/heal...won-the-fight-over-abortion-in-texas-20140306

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...ion-Clinics-Closing-At-Record-Rate-Nationwide


http://www.jillstanek.com/2010/11/31-us-abortion-clinics-have-closed-in-past-12-months/

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gl...-closing-planned-parenthood-abby-johnson.html

Apparently there are two clones of Crabtownboy on BB so don't hold your breath!

 

[OldRegular]

It is almost surreal. Here we are on a Christian Forum, a Baptist one at that, discussing the question of support for the murder of unborn children. The question has even been raised, in an oblique way, as to whether or not Jesus Christ would be against this slaughter since He did not specifically condemn it [post#176].

 

[OldRegular]

Now it has been well known for several years that Crabtownboy, though he insists he is pro-life, is a radical supporter of the democrat party, the "party of Death", and its policies. Frankly I have accused, each time an opportunity presents itself, Crabtownboy of supporting abortion. I have no regrets! Sadly it appears that there are others on this Forum who support Crabtownboy's position, fellow travelers.

It is a fact that since 1980 the democrat party platform has contained language that supports the continuation of abortion. It is a fact that the majority of democrat politicians are strong supporters of abortion. It is a fact that in its 2012 National Convention the democrat party spent part of one evening celebrating their support of abortion. It is a fact that as an Illinois State Senator Barak Obama voted 3 or more times AGAINST a bill that would require medical aid for a child alive following a "botched" abortion. {A similar law was passed by the Republican Senate and House and signed by President Bush. I believe that Senator Graham of SC was the author of that Law.} Therefore, I have no problem identifying the democrat party as the "party of death".

Now Crabtownboy routinely counterattacks by using a passage out of Matthew 25 insisting that all who oppose the murder of the unborn child are also against giving aid to anyone who is hungry, thirsty, strangers, naked, sick, and in prison. It is clear that Jesus Christ in His role as Judge of all the Earth, is speaking in Matthew 25:31-46 of individuals, not governments, because we will all be judged as individuals when we stand before the LORD Jesus Christ. Governments will not stand at the final judgment! Yet Crabtownboy makes the irrational assumption that all who oppose the continued effort of the leftist democrat party to transform this Republic into a nation of serfs dependent on "Massa" Federal Government for their livelihood are the "goats" of Matthew 25:31-46.

I would note at this point that under the Supreme Court ruling, Roe v Wade, of 1973 abortion up to a certain point is legal in the United States. I would also note that persons, individuals, perform abortions and these persons are accountable to God for their actions. The fact that seven men in black robes sanctioned murder will be no excuse for those who for money have slaughtered 56 million unborn children or for those who support their murders. And that slaughter is continuing at the rate of almost 4000 each day.

 

[Reformed]

It is almost surreal. Here we are on a Christian Forum, a Baptist one at that, discussing the question of support for the murder of unborn children. The question has even been raised, in an oblique way, as to whether or not Jesus Christ would be against this slaughter since He did not specifically condemn it [post#176].

This is what happens when liberalism meets the Bible, and I'm not referring to political liberalism. There is a segment of "Christians" who believe that Jesus came proclaiming a social gospel, not a message of repentance from sin. Jesus did care for the poor and downtrodden, but not at the expense of repentance from sin and faith in His finished work on the cross.

 

[OldRegular]

This is what happens when liberalism meets the Bible, and I'm not referring to political liberalism. There is a segment of "Christians" who believe that Jesus came proclaiming a social gospel, not a message of repentance from sin. Jesus did care for the poor and downtrodden, but not at the expense of repentance from sin and faith in His finished work on the cross.

And these folks are quite willing to use the Bible if and when it suits their ideology and/or purpose.

 

[John of Japan]

Now it has been well known for several years that Crabtownboy, though he insists he is pro-life, is a radical supporter of the democrat party, the "party of Death", and its policies. Frankly I have accused, each time an opportunity presents itself, Crabtownboy of supporting abortion. I have no regrets! Sadly it appears that there are others on this Forum who support Crabtownboy's position, fellow travelers.

If you are talking about C4K you're barking up the wrong tree. He is absolutely an opponent of abortion as I am. And I'm with him on the idea that the Republicans have done some good in this area, but not nearly enough. They have become a party of big government and supporters of immorality. Neither one of us are liberal in any way, shape or form. (We've been under the same mission board for decades.)

 

[Revmitchell]

If you are talking about C4K you're barking up the wrong tree. He is absolutely an opponent of abortion as I am. And I'm with him on the idea that the Republicans have done some good in this area, but not nearly enough. They have become a party of big government and supporters of immorality. Neither one of us are liberal in any way, shape or form. (We've been under the same mission board for decades.)

You are wrong about the GOP and abortion. They have done a lot and they do not just use it as an issue as CK4 says. He know better. I have, in this thread, shown otherwise.

 

[John of Japan]

You are wrong about the GOP and abortion. They have done a lot and they do not just use it as an issue as CK4 says. He know better. I have, in this thread, shown otherwise.

My statement was that they have done some good but not enough. Do you believe the Republicans have done enough against abortion?

 

[Revmitchell]

My statement was that they have done some good but not enough. Do you believe the Republicans have done enough against abortion?

What I believe is that because the SC has ruled on it, it has to be addressed in a different way. The GOP has done a very good job of doing that and have done as good as can be expected. I provided links that show just exactly what has been done.

CK4 made the claim that the GOP has only used it as an issue and does not really care about it. That is a statement either made out of ignorance or intentionally deceitful. Since we have had that conversation before and I have shown him on more than one occasion what the facts are I lean toward the latter.

The facts are:

1. The GOP has not simply done a little about abortion. They have gone far beyond that.
2. They do not just use it as an issue. They actually continually work to do something about it.
3. Abortion mills are being shut down all over the country.

Any statement made to the contrary of those facts are either ignorant or just dishonest.



http://www.nationaljournal.com/healt...texas-20140306

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ate-Nationwide


http://www.jillstanek.com/2010/11/31...ast-12-months/

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gle...y-johnson.html

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

If you are talking about C4K you're barking up the wrong tree. He is absolutely an opponent of abortion as I am. And I'm with him on the idea that the Republicans have done some good in this area, but not nearly enough. They have become a party of big government and supporters of immorality. Neither one of us are liberal in any way, shape or form. (We've been under the same mission board for decades.)

Thanks John. The truth is that I quit responding to the foolish charge that I am an anti-American abortion loving liberal. It is so baseless and absurd that it doesn't merit a response. One member on here even called me a 'baby killer' at one time because I wasn't supporting a republican candidate.

It is this kind of stuff that tempers my love and pride for my home country.

Of course one can be a Christian and a patriot - but neither is dependent on the other.

 

[John of Japan]

What I believe is that because the SC has ruled on it, it has to be addressed in a different way. The GOP has done a very good job of doing that and have done as good as can be expected. I provided links that show just exactly what has been done.

CK4 made the claim that the GOP has only used it as an issue and does not really care about it. That is a statement either made out of ignorance or intentionally deceitful. Since we have had that conversation before and I have shown him on more than one occasion what the facts are I lean toward the latter.

The facts are:

1. The GOP has not simply done a little about abortion. They have gone far beyond that.
2. They do not just use it as an issue. They actually continually work to do something about it.
3. Abortion mills are being shut down all over the country.

Any statement made to the contrary of those facts are either ignorant or just dishonest.



http://www.nationaljournal.com/healt...texas-20140306

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ate-Nationwide


http://www.jillstanek.com/2010/11/31...ast-12-months/

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gle...y-johnson.html

Put me in the ignorant category, and thanks for the education. :thumbs:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This thread is not about state governments - it is about patriotism at a national level. My comments were made in that light and in that light the GOP, over 40 years, as only managed to stop 0.2% of the abortions and most of their candidates excuse abortions in some cases so they still approve of baby killing within certain bounds.

Washington is pro-death and both parties play into that policy at that level.

 

[Revmitchell]

This thread is not about state governments - it is about patriotism at a national level. My comments were made in that light and in that light the GOP, over 40 years, as only managed to stop 0.2% of the abortions and most of their candidates excuse abortions in some cases so they still approve of baby killing within certain bounds.

Washington is pro-death and both parties play into that policy at that level.

It is posts like this that just goes to show your refusal to admit your claims are deceptive. You rarely post except to jump out of the wood work to bash the GOP and the country and its history.(can't miss an opportunity to do that) What goes on at the state level is an important part of addressing abortion and has been every effective. Ignoring it just so you can tout your percentage does not paint a correct picture. And quite frankly it lacks integrity.

To misrepresent people that way is just a shame.

 

[Revmitchell]

Thanks John. The truth is that I quit responding to the foolish charge that I am a abortion loving liberal. It is so baseless and absurd that it doesn't merit a response. One member on here even called me a 'baby killer' at one time because I wasn't supporting a republican candidate.

It is this kind of stuff that tempers my love and pride for my home country.

Of course one can be a Christian and a patriot - but neither is dependent on the other.

No one in this thread has made any such extreme claims. However , you seem to like to use such phrases:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1505954&postcount=73

What you ignore is that which refutes your position that is based on very little.

And interestingly enough I was accused falsely by the admin on this board for using such a phrase and was banned. Yet you actually use it and it is ok. Hmmmm

 

[blackbird]

This thread has run past the allowed page limit and will be closed here!!