Should America do more to assist Europe with refugee/migrants?

[poncho]

Can you tell me the context of the passage you are invoking?

I'm trying. Answer my question.

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm trying. Answer my question.

Uh no, you may believe you are but you are not. We have exchanged questions. I have answered your initial question as of yet you have failed to answer mine. Just give a clear explanation of the context you believe fits the passage you are trying to apply to foreign policy and politics.

 

[poncho]

Uh no, you may believe you are but you are not. We have exchanged questions. I have answered your initial question as of yet you have failed to answer mine. Just give a clear explanation of the context you believe fits the passage you are trying to apply to foreign policy and politics.

Uh no, first we have to establish what the church is before we can go any further.

You said, "Do they come into the church, hold a teaching or preaching position in the church, and then falsely represent God and His word?"

What is the church Reverend? Where does Christ live, Reverend?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I agree it is care must be taken. Politicians are not Biblical prophets; no matter what they may think of themselves. Further, I hold to a fairly strict interpretation of ekklesia. In my view, the word has primarily a local, visible meaning (which I believe Rev is referring) with little room for a universal, invisible component.

Do they come into the church, hold a teaching or preaching position in the church, and then falsely represent God and His word?

Or are these politicians outside the church that church members happen to believe?

If it is the latter then you have misused scripture out of context. If it is the former you have not made that case as of yet.

 

[poncho]

I agree it is care must be taken. Politicians are not Biblical prophets; no matter what they may think of themselves.

The Rev is able to answer for himself.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

You mean I can't chime in with my agreement.

The Rev is able to answer for himself.

 

[Revmitchell]

Uh no, first we have to establish what the church is before we can go any further.

You said, "Do they come into the church, hold a teaching or preaching position in the church, and then falsely represent God and His word?"

What is the church Reverend? Where does Christ live, Reverend?

If you want to establish a fact then say it straight out. I do not play the game of going through a series of leading questions. So it or drop it.

 

[poncho]

You mean I can't chime in with my agreement.

Sure why not? I was taken by surprise that you aren't deleting my posts faster then I can type them.

 

[Revmitchell]

I agree it is care must be taken. Politicians are not Biblical prophets; no matter what they may think of themselves. Further, I hold to a fairly strict interpretation of ekklesia. In my view, the word has primarily a local, visible meaning (which I believe Rev is referring) with little room for a universal, invisible component.

And that is the context of the passage on false prophets. It does not give room for politicians with a foreign policy agenda. Such applications of that verse are out of line.

I think a legitimate case can be made to oppose what poncho is opposed to without the misuse of scripture.

Also, when people choose to attack my calling or my username in a debate it means they have lost and have nothing of value to offer. For that reason I am moving on.

 

[Revmitchell]

I refuse to get into adversarial debate any longer. They are unChristian and not helpful. I am seeing more and more that is not possible in this board.

 

[poncho]

If you want to establish a fact then say it straight out. I do not play the game of going through a series of leading questions. So it or drop it.

I forgot you aren't used to answering questions. My mistake.

Christ lives in our hearts. Agreed?

If He lives in our hearts and we listen to the neocons and believe them without question then we are taking their word to heart. Agreed? If we're taking their words to heart then we've invited them into our hearts. Agreed?

If we're inviting the neocons into our hearts then yes, they are coming into "the church" and if they are coming into the "the church" by reason of our invitation then yes they do hold a "teaching/preaching" position in "the church" because we have allowed them to hold such a position in our hearts. Agreed?

There I answered your question. Now answer mine.

What does Gods word teach us? To be fearful? To hate our enemies? To be paranoid? To view others as something lesser than ourselves? Does God's word teach us to test the spirits? Does God's word teach us to judge the fruits a tree brings forth?

I'm trying real hard not to be adversarial Squire. I haven't called anyone names, I haven't intended to insult anyone. I'm just not used to having the Rev answer my questions. It's a new experience for me. Usually when I ask him a question he disappears for a length of time only to return after awhile to hit me below the belt with a pejorative or two. After all these years of putting up with it I guess I've become a little defensive.

It might take some time to wear off.

The neocons are prophets. They've prophesied many times about what will happen to us if we don't give them more money, more power and more control. They've prophesied many times what will happen if we don't invade this nation or support those "rebels". So far all their prophesies have been Wrong with a capital W.

The "church" has listened to these prophets and believed them. Even after their first prophesies have been proven to be false.

The "church" has been and is treating them as if they are biblical prophets and judging them by their words and not their fruits so why shouldn't Matthew 7:15 - 16 apply to them?

I believe it does apply.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Poncho, the last time I heard your line of logic concerning the church; it was from a charismatic group who used it to legitimize their use of tongues.
Your interpretation is not one commonly held by the Baptists I know.

Then New Testament church is an organized, autonomous band of immersed believers, having New Testament officers, observing New Testament ordinances and actively carrying out the Great Commission

SNIP

Christ lives in our hearts. Agreed?

If He lives in our hearts and we listen to the neocons and believe them without question then we are taking their word to heart. Agreed? If we're taking their words to heart then we've invited them into our hearts. Agreed?

If we're inviting the neocons into our hearts then yes, they are coming into "the church" and if they are coming into the "the church" by reason of our invitation then yes they do hold a "teaching/preaching" position in "the church" because we have allowed them to hold such a position in our hearts. Agreed?

There I answered your question. Now answer mine.

What does Gods word teach us? To be fearful? To hate our enemies? To be paranoid? Does God's word teach us to test the spirits? Does God's words teach us that we can tell a tree by it's fruits?

 

[poncho]

Poncho, the last time I heard your line of logic concerning the church; it was from a charismatic group who used it to legitimize their use of tongues.
Your interpretation is not one commonly held by the Baptists I know.

I'm sure it's not. I'm not a preacher. I'm not a prophet and I've never spoke anything other than English, some Spanish and just enough German to understand what our mechanical engineer is saying when he smashes his thumb with a hammer.

We've been treating the neocon's prophesies as if they do come from God and they don't. If they did they would all be 100% correct. And they haven't been. They've been 100% wrong.

Their fruits are rotten to the core.

And after hearing some of the sermons on Romans 13 from preachers and others here who do not put it in historical context I'm a bit testy when the same inform me that I am misapplying scripture.

Evidently the Rev isn't going to answer my questions so maybe someone will.

What does Gods word teach us? To be fearful? To hate our enemies or those we are told are our enemies? To be paranoid? To view others as something lesser than ourselves? Does God's word teach us to test the spirits? Does God's word teach us to judge a tree by it's fruits?

Anyways, IMHO the best way to help these "refugees", "migrants" or whatever they are is to see the neocon's evil for what it really is and put an end to their policy of creating division, chaos and destruction in the countries these people are forced to flee from. ISIS = Washington and Saudi Arabia's regime change proxy forces. That's why we're not destroying them. They work for Washington in more ways than one.

I do need a vacation. From the Matrix.

 

[go2church]

I disagree.

Neocons are the prophets of fear mongering for regime change. The fruits of their regime change policy can't get much more obvious.

Millions dead, millions displaced, terror, chaos and destabilization follows them where ever they go. They preach human rights and democracy while supporting and protecting the very people doing all the destabilizing, killing and displacing. I think Matthew 7:15-16 fits them to a tee.

Their fruits are lies, death and destruction.



Really? Then why do the majority in the church believe their prophesies, without question?

Neocons have nothing to do with this passage, NOTHING! Scripture can't mean now, what it never meant then. You are making a political point by twisting scripture to fit your predetermined means. You're seeing neocons because that is what you want to see.

I don't know that it's accurate to say the "majority of the church believe their prophecies". Church in America, in Europe, globally?

The only fear mongering I see is from you.

Refugees were original the topic, what should be done? You want to make a point about government destabilization...uh, that's fine I guess, but there are thousands of people literally running for their lives...what should be done and should Americans and the American government do something? That's the question.

 

[InTheLight]

If you want to establish a fact then say it straight out. I do not play the game of going through a series of leading questions.

:thumbsup::thumbs::thumbsup::thumbs:

 

[righteousdude2]

Sure why not? I was taken by surprise that you aren't deleting my posts faster then I can type them.

I feel the beginnings of a huge "Pity-party" coming on! :wavey: