Should Arminians and Calvinists Attend the Same Church?

[Reynolds]

Should those holding to Calvinism and those holding to Arminianism commune together in the same local church, despite deep disagreements on Soteriology?

This is an honest question from me. Because it seems such deep disagreement would presage going to separate churches and approaching each other as holding to false doctrine in regards to salvation.

It just seems a bridge too far for Calvinists and Arminians to ignore our theological differences and act in such unity. Am I wrong?

So long as the vast majority on both sides are not in the cage state, I see no problem.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

So long as the vast majority on both sides are not in the cage state, I see no problem.

Reynolds, what do you mean by cage state?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well unless you are Roman Catholic, guess what, you are protestant.

No thanks, I identify as a Primitive Baptist and we don’t ID as Protestants

 

[1689Dave]

Should those holding to Calvinism and those holding to Arminianism commune together in the same local church, despite deep disagreements on Soteriology?

This is an honest question from me. Because it seems such deep disagreement would presage going to separate churches and approaching each other as holding to false doctrine in regards to salvation.

It just seems a bridge too far for Calvinists and Arminians to ignore our theological differences and act in such unity. Am I wrong?

I believe both schools represent two different Christs and two different Christianities. But God saved me apart from any church. I began being churched in Arminianism. And believe some Arminians are saved too. I think some Calvinists are saved but the numbers are small in both groups.

 

[Dave G]

Should those holding to Calvinism and those holding to Arminianism commune together in the same local church, despite deep disagreements on Soteriology?

Given that Paul told Timothy to do this:

" I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 and they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry." ( 2 Timothy 4:1-5 ).

To me, no matter which side of the "fence" one is on, it makes it very difficult...
Nnot only for a pastor or teacher, but for anyone else who finds themselves in disagreement with the doctrines of the church, to remain for very long and still be obedient to this passage or others that speak similarly to this.

On a personal note:

I can and do meet for fellowship and bible study with brothers and sisters who are in disagreement with me over several issues;
But I will not stay long in a church that does not preach and teach what I hold to be the truth.

So, my answer would be, "No".

 

[Dave G]

This is an honest question from me. Because it seems such deep disagreement would presage going to separate churches and approaching each other as holding to false doctrine in regards to salvation.

As I see it,
It not only presages it, that sort of thing has been going on for centuries now.
Just ask a "Wesleyan", "Traditionalist" or Catholic what they think of "Calvinism"...

You'll get a reply anywhere from, "that's not my God" to " your God is a monster!".

Try reading John Wesley's tract, "On Predestination",
His sermon, "Free Grace",
Or read his writings against Augustus Toplady.
Then take a look at the Canons of Trent, especially its Sixth Session, "On Justification", or John R. Rice's tract, "Predestined for Hell? No!".

I guarantee there won't be any doubt as to how hard the feelings about certain doctrines have been ( some on both sides ), especially in the past 400 to 500 years.

 

[Dave G]

Reynolds, what do you mean by cage state?

I can't speak for Reynolds,
But in my travels around forums, I think it basically boils down to this:

Those that are newly converted to their position and get carried away in their zeal for it, have been tagged with this label.

They are often referred to as "cage stagers", similar to "cage fighters" or "pit bulls" because they walk all over anyone who gets in their way...
With no regard for the other person's feelings, integrity or with no regard to obeying the Lord in matters of Christian conduct.

 

[SGO]

What if we on this forum were members of the same church?
Ha!
I'll bet I could love some of you in spite of your defenses of doctrine but sadly, not all of you.
But guess what?
We are all in the same church if we are "in Christ" and will have to answer for our lost tempers and calling one another "fools" when we stand at the Bema Seat.

 

[Dave G]

But guess what?
We are all in the same church if we are "in Christ" and will have to answer for our lost tempers and calling one another "fools" when we stand at the Bema Seat.

I agree.

As born-again Christians, we are all in the same "church", IF we are truly in Christ via the Holy Spirit of truth.
But guess what?

" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).

Not everyone who professes Christ, is His.

That is the harsh reality of being a believer, SGO.
We get to decide which doctrines are right and wrong, which teachers are true and false, and which of those who profess Christ are and are not His, if we strive to follow His every command, like this one:

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." ( 2 Timothy 3:5 ).


This thing we've been given is eternal,
and this faith that we profess is indeed not only something that people can and do come into the unity of, it carries with it persecution and suffering.

Read up on the religious wars of the 1500's and 1600's ( or Foxe's Book of Martyrs ), and I think you'll see how very harshly some people's feelings about doctrinal issues have led them to do some very bad things towards others who profess Christ, despite their having the same Name in common.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Due to them being brothers/sisters in Christ?

My mother’s old adage in these discussions...you go to your church and I will go to mine. Could you just imagine the fist fights in the parking lots...

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Most Calvinists haven't studied Augustine or Calvin .

Then how to they identify with Calvinists?

 

[George Antonios]

Should those holding to Calvinism and those holding to Arminianism commune together in the same local church, despite deep disagreements on Soteriology?

This is an honest question from me. Because it seems such deep disagreement would presage going to separate churches and approaching each other as holding to false doctrine in regards to salvation.

It just seems a bridge too far for Calvinists and Arminians to ignore our theological differences and act in such unity. Am I wrong?

What about a Non-Calvinist Non-Arminian like me?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

What about a Non-Calvinist Non-Arminian like me?

The main question I have is whether you believe those with different soteriological beliefs should be in the same local church functioning as a unit?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What about a Non-Calvinist Non-Arminian like me?

Have you checked the forum name before asking the question?

 

[Barry Johnson]

They don't really need to because it's not really Calvin or Augustine's doctrine. It's biblical.

Neither do Jehovah's_Witnesses have to study Charles taze Russell, but they still believe his teachings without knowing.

 

[Van]

Arminianism is a branch of Calvinistic thinking, and it is wrong for all the same reasons that Calvinism is wrong.
My journey away from Calvinism was through being in a Church that was kinda in middle . So I had to research both sides . I think its the Consistent Calvinist that won't tolerate mixing . The rest sometimes don't really understand and are floating in the middle . Unless someone brings up limited atonement directly an Arminan can unwittingly sit under a Calvinist pastor for years without realizing it . There are plenty of reformed- 'undercover ' Calvinists in non Calvinist churches. I approached a visiting speaker at a church at i was attending and asked him outright if He was a Calvinist . Because he was subtlety preaching on perseverance of the saints and Election to salvation. He said He was and was pleased I noticed. But the non Calvinist church had no clue . Even the ones ( the elders ) who were opposed to Calvinism did not notice . They were actually irritated at me for asking him questions like that . Because I did not realize he was a potential candidate for the churches next pastor. He just ticked all their other boxes and was a 'nice man 'with a ' lovely wife and Family .

There is a significant fraction of the Baptist clergy that say "believe like a Calvinist, preach like an Arminian. But of course that is wrong, the practice of deceitfulness.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As I see it,
It not only presages it, that sort of thing has been going on for centuries now.
Just ask a "Wesleyan", "Traditionalist" or Catholic what they think of "Calvinism"...

You'll get a reply anywhere from, "that's not my God" to " your God is a monster!".

Try reading John Wesley's tract, "On Predestination",
His sermon, "Free Grace",
Or read his writings against Augustus Toplady.
Then take a look at the Canons of Trent, especially its Sixth Session, "On Justification", or John R. Rice's tract, "Predestined for Hell? No!".

I guarantee there won't be any doubt as to how hard the feelings about certain doctrines have been ( some on both sides ), especially in the past 400 to 500 years.

I was once called a heretic by a teaching elder in a Lutheran church . When I confronted the pastor about it he told me he could teach it outa me. I then asked him if he would ever be willing to meet with my church and fellowship and it was something like hell no.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Then how to they identify with Calvinists?

Because their teachings remain. With the likes of Piper, washer , MacArthur, Sproul, White , Mouler, ect . Ask a bible question on Google ,the top searches are Calvinists . Got questions, Ligioner, Monergism, Desiring God , Grace to you , ect ect . You cannot escape its reach .

 

[Barry Johnson]

There is a significant fraction of the Baptist clergy that say "believe like a Calvinist, preach like an Arminian. But of course that is wrong, the practice of deceitfulness.

I wish Calvinists were up front about there Calvinsm . Many a Church finds them self with a pastor who finally comes out and lays it all out beard and all . A lot of Calvinsts come out of seminary with a hostile take over in mind.

 

[SGO]

Thank you Dave G., for the thoughtful jolt back to reality.
Net Chaplain has a good essay today in the thread "Prying Thoughts".