The only thing I have studied is "Kleenurplatedo". I am quite experience at this also. :laugh:
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Should Christians Be Involved In martial Arts?
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plain_n_simple
Active Member
"Should Christians Be Involved In martial Arts?"
Why would you need it if you have Jesus? You wouldn't.
Why would you need it if you have Jesus? You wouldn't.
Christ endorsed physical self defense in John 18:36: "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
If someone invades my home, he is invading my earthly, physical kingdom. Therefore I will fight him, which is right in God's eyes, and the more I know about how to defeat him the better. I have no respect for any man who is not man enough to be willing to die fighting for his wife and children.
Fighting is a learned skill. David in the OT learned that skill and fought and defeated both animal predators and human enemies. But then he gave credit and glory to God for his fighting abilities in Ps. 144:1--"Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight."
A pastor friend of mine who is a 5th degree black sash/belt in our style of kung fu had a man invade his church building while he was there alone. God helped him to defeat and restrain the attacker through his martial art. As one writer said, "There is almost no reason in the world to fight, but there is every reason in the world to know how to fight."
plain_n_simple
Active Member
You just used the scripture you quoted out of context. The Kingdom, which you are in now, does not need to fight. You are in the wrong spirit sir. "Shall we call down fire?" asked the disciples. Jesus replied they were in the wrong spirit. When Peter cut off the servents ear, He told Peter he was wrong also. Taking self defense comes from fear, something Jesus said 365 times in the new testament not to do. You are in this world, not of it.
A most honorable art--but it tends to build the body in unwanted ways. :laugh:
Do you mean to tell me if someone invaded your home you would sit there and allow them to attack your wife and children without defending them?
You, sir, are mixing up the physical and the spiritual. And no I most certainly did not use the Scripture out of context. Christ was speaking of the spiritual, saying that physical fighting is out of place there. If attacked for witnessing for Christ I would not fight, but would thank God for the persecution. However, Christ was also speaking of the physical, saying his servants would fight physically if the issue were only physical.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
The kingdom, on earth as it is in heaven. Jesus is the example. The spiritual overcomes the physical, here on earth. Read the examples Christ set for us, it's love. Hurting someone is never the answer. Jesus is so in me I will never get attacked in my home. That is fear that makes you do what you do. Read the examples I gave and consider what they mean. Love overcomes, not a blackbelt lol.
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
Yeah, when I was robbed at knifepoint this past Summer, and even though I tried to comply with this guy's wishes he attacked me, it was definitely because my spiritual walk was lacking. Also, I just gave him a hug to show my love, and that's what gave him a broken nose, black eye(s), and dislocated elbow. I am glad that I loved him into hurting himself, and that my walk with Christ kept him from killing me with his knife. [/sarcasm]
convicted1
Guest
Well, you have heard the old saying, "Love hurts!" Boy did you really pour your love all over him, too.
BTW, I want to thank you for your courage, and duty to this great country, by putting yourself in harm's way, so that they rest of us can do what we do freely. I am truly indebted to you, and all the soldiers, and I salute you, and more importantly pray that God will keep His hands upon you and the rest of our military.
This is incredibly naive. And you would have me believe that you are more spiritual than my pastor friend who was attacked in his own church. Pastor Mike is a godly, good man, with Jesus in him. Yet he was attacked.
You completely miss the self defense violence Jesus Himself used when wicked men invaded His Father's house:
"14 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise." (John 2).
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You examples don't fit the problem. We are talking about self defense, but your example of calling down fire is an offensive act, not a defensive one. Again, when Peter cut off the servant's ear he was disobeying Christ, who had said they would not fight. It was not a self defense situation. You have no Scripture whatever to say that self defense is wrong.
Defending one's self and one's family does not come out of fear. Learning how to defend one's self actually takes the fear away. Defending one's family is an act of love and courage, not fear. You have no Scripture whatsoever to say that self defense is an act of fear.
Have a good Thanksgiving anyway!
Should Christians Be Involved In martial Arts?
Not any more so than being involved in a ACP .45. Or a Mossberg .20 gauge for home defense.
I took karate lessons many years ago and only had one occasion to use any of the learned techniques. Several of the most effective ways to disable any foe requires less than ten pounds of physical strength. Ways that most everyone should know and not be afraid to use if need be.
The problem I have however is when Christian Leaders show up dressed in their karate "uniforms" to otherwise present the gospel. If their hobby were skeet shooting would they show up with their shotgun slung over their shoulder? There's a time and place for everything. When I carry my pistol to church it's concealed, as it should be.
Otherwise, have at it. Refuse those oriental mysticism rituals and have fun. One never knows when they might need it.
Not any more so than being involved in a ACP .45. Or a Mossberg .20 gauge for home defense.
I took karate lessons many years ago and only had one occasion to use any of the learned techniques. Several of the most effective ways to disable any foe requires less than ten pounds of physical strength. Ways that most everyone should know and not be afraid to use if need be.
The problem I have however is when Christian Leaders show up dressed in their karate "uniforms" to otherwise present the gospel. If their hobby were skeet shooting would they show up with their shotgun slung over their shoulder? There's a time and place for everything. When I carry my pistol to church it's concealed, as it should be.
Otherwise, have at it. Refuse those oriental mysticism rituals and have fun. One never knows when they might need it.
WRONG! Martial arts arise where the need exists regardless of religion or geography. Nearly every culture has armed and un-armed combat. It was SOLDIERS who taught the actual fighting skills to the Shaolin monks....not some Indian monk named Bodidarma (sp?) John of Japan, back me up on that one, please. And there are martial arts all over the world.... in France you have Savate, for instance. In the USA you HAD catch wrestling.
We should be aware of ANYONE who tries to draw us astray with mystical mumbo jumbo. And I've seen some martial arts places in China that part of their discipline is Zen. And then you also have people who practice some weird magic stuff in the Filipino and Indonesian arts---but they are rare. And why we're talking about the Filipino arts: some of those folks are muslims, but they gave us some good knowledge on edged weapons and how to weild two weapons at once.
My point? Don't participate in the mumbo jumbo. Go find a school, teacher and art that does not focus on mumbo jumbo and learn to fight.
I had 18 years in the martial arts and I've been inactive for the past 4 years ( I had to quit when our son was born). I had a 2nd degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, a 1st degree in kuk sool won and I'm presently ranked as a Full Instructor in Jeet Kune Do Concepts....so I'm somewhat familiar with the subject. In those 18 years, I was never asked to participate in any kind of Zen activity--and most instructors in the USA are sensitive to this issue. My Jeet Kune Do instructor is about THE godliest man I've ever met and when I started learning from him, I was as backslidden as one could be--God put that man in my life for a reason! Praise God.
Now, if you want to learn how to hit hard and defend yourself and you have time, I suggest boxing, judo and even freestyle wrestling. Freestyle wrestling is what bridges boxing (think "long-range striking") and judo (throwing, choking, finish holds, joint dislocation). But if you only have time for one art, do Judo.
I already did. Check post 12.
I did catch (catch as catch can) as a high school student. The real thing is still taught in the US by Matt Furey and others, and in Japan in organizations such as Pancrase. These guys (both countries) were students of Karl Gotch, who trained in England under Billy Riley. Lou Thesz also taught in Japan.
I hope everyone is having a great Thanksgiving. We are in a motel in NC, having just had a great meal at friends' house with our son.
Robert Snow
New Member
I'm not anti-martial arts, in fact I saw a church sign that told of martial arts classes for young people. This, I would think, is a good thing. It should teach these young people discipline, self-control, confidence and other things that will prove useful in their lives.
Now, if this were to teach cage-fighting skills, do you think this would be acceptable. I have not made up my mind, but this might be something I would object to.
At my age, the only thing I try to keep in shape is my right index finger. If I don't feel that the threat of a good finger poke will do, I guess I will have to actually pull the trigger, if attacked or if my home is broken into.
Now, if this were to teach cage-fighting skills, do you think this would be acceptable. I have not made up my mind, but this might be something I would object to.
At my age, the only thing I try to keep in shape is my right index finger. If I don't feel that the threat of a good finger poke will do, I guess I will have to actually pull the trigger, if attacked or if my home is broken into.
convicted1
Guest
Look, I am in no way a MA person, but I do appreciate seeing the gracefulness on how they move. If anyone doesn't like that, then let's take it to the next level!!!
And if that won't settle it, then how about we do this?
And just in case anyone decides to take me up on this, I'd better practice and get into shape.
And if that won't settle it, then how about we do this?
And just in case anyone decides to take me up on this, I'd better practice and get into shape.
Yeah, personally I’ve always been quite critical of “chi” concepts.
Enjoyed reading your book, “Strength in the Inner Man”, and will likely be building off some paraphrased concepts of yours for use in counseling as it relates to motivation during my physical therapy interventions. One thing that caught my attention and I’m currently brainstorming on is what spinal motor neuron reflexes could possibly be taken advantage of to facilitate a desired voluntary motion in order to achieve a specific action, especially while involving a self-applied technique. I am aware of “proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation” (PNF) “quick stretch” (QS) which facilitates a greater muscle contraction; although at best all I can see happening through self-application of a QS is achieving greater force but this would require a longer range of motion (ROM) and thereby demand more time. In regards to martial arts the extra time along with the accompanying telegraphing of the direction of movement by use of a QS reflex would seem to be mostly unproductive. (
especially against a style like Wing Chun which wastes no time in getting to the target ) Do you know of any specific actions (strikes) that are claimed to be made faster through spinal motor neuron reflexes or another way of recruiting reflex action other than QS that is being used?PS. I want to remind you to watch the two “IP Man” movies while you’re on furlough if you get the chance.
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Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
As one who's entered the cage as an amateur, I would have no objection. MMA is a sport, just like hockey, football, boxing, etc. It teaches the same discipline and dedication as any sport. Also, it is no more dangerous than those sports (to give an exact breakdown would de-rail the thread, so I'll leave that alone). In fact, there have been less career ending injuries in MMA than there have been in professional football.
Just like every other sport, it is not the sport that has anything wrong with it. But if you are tuning in just for the ring girls, then obviously that raises some objections. But no more so than hoping to catch a glimpse of the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders in between downs.
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
True, this is speaking of "rulers".
Well, in a very real sense I am the "ruler" of my household to provide them spiritual guidance, food, clothing and protection from "evil doers".
BTW, martial arts provides a defense discipline which in most cases renders the victim helpless without killing him/her.
But for me, I guess I'm just one of those folks who clings to his Bible and his guns.
And my thanks to all the veterans for your service to our country without which this nation would have perished from the face of the earth a long time ago (circa 1776).
HankD
Perhaps the greatest part of this thread is the numerous, hilarious emoticons populating the discourse.