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Should Christians rally behind the 2ND AMENDMENT?
- Thread starter ROBERTGUWAPO
- Start date
Comrade
"I remember a quote that said something like "Now that our guns have all been registered it will be a much safer place" Hitler said that. "
''
Now that specific quote is false.
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhitlergun.html
DanielDavid
"When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults. "
''
Could this explain why I own one?
Marcia, Comrade, Rooster
"I don't think that Europe is that tougher on criminals. Someone living over there on the BB might be able to address that."
''
In general American law is harsher on the criminal element than the laws of Europe.
Yes violent crimes are a lot rarer overhere. On the other hand petty theft is more common in most of Europe than it is in most small towns in the USA.
"Ironically, I have had a gun pointed at me and I still don't want one."
''
Same here.
"I remember a quote that said something like "Now that our guns have all been registered it will be a much safer place" Hitler said that. "
''
Now that specific quote is false.
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhitlergun.html
DanielDavid
"When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults. "
''
Could this explain why I own one?
Marcia, Comrade, Rooster
"I don't think that Europe is that tougher on criminals. Someone living over there on the BB might be able to address that."
''
In general American law is harsher on the criminal element than the laws of Europe.
Yes violent crimes are a lot rarer overhere. On the other hand petty theft is more common in most of Europe than it is in most small towns in the USA.
"Ironically, I have had a gun pointed at me and I still don't want one."
''
Same here.
poncho
Well-Known Member
mioque,
I liked the part about being lazy
I have a couple wrist rocket slingshots and can usually hit what I aim at with them. Have used them to take small game. They are very effective at close range on rabbits and such. They do indeed take alot of practice.
But, to stop an attack on my life I prefer my 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot or at the very least my 9mm semiautomatic rifle loaded with 10, 124 grain cor-bon hollowpoints.
My mother's home has already been broken into and robbed twice, once when my father was in the livingroom, and they live in a small town of about 3,000 folks.
I hope to never have use deadly force on another human being. If it were to ever come to pointing a weapon at someone...I hope that they have enough sense to turn around and run. Sometimes just the sight of a gun will make the difference. A slingshot? I dunno.
I liked the part about being lazy
I have a couple wrist rocket slingshots and can usually hit what I aim at with them. Have used them to take small game. They are very effective at close range on rabbits and such. They do indeed take alot of practice.But, to stop an attack on my life I prefer my 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot or at the very least my 9mm semiautomatic rifle loaded with 10, 124 grain cor-bon hollowpoints.
My mother's home has already been broken into and robbed twice, once when my father was in the livingroom, and they live in a small town of about 3,000 folks.
I hope to never have use deadly force on another human being. If it were to ever come to pointing a weapon at someone...I hope that they have enough sense to turn around and run. Sometimes just the sight of a gun will make the difference. A slingshot? I dunno.
Marcia
Active Member
I hear this so much that I don't really think about it, but it has been bothering me all day.
People kill people but it sure is a lot easier and a lot faster to kill with a gun than with a knife or with bare hands.
I would feel a lot safer in a city where no one owns guns, than living in a place like the US right now where guns are everywhere. In VA, it is legal to carry concealed weapons.
poncho
Well-Known Member
It's legal in New York (upstate) if you are a law abiding citizen (and can prove it by) filling out all the paperwork, fingerprints, and mugshots in triplicate (for the county sherrif, state police, and FBI) and have the $120 or so in fees and have the time to wait 8 months to be accepted. Crimmnals do not bother with such things.
I don't think your going to find a city anywhere on the planet that doesn't have guns Marcia. Maybe but I haven't heard of any. They did try something like that in Washington DC, they supposedly have the strictest guns laws in the country.
Here's what Lt. Lowel Duckett, president of the Black Police Caucus, and special assistant to the Washington DC Chief of Police had to say...
Guns don't kill people, people kill people may be gitting kind of warn out as a saying but it's still true. If all the guns in the world were thrown into the sea today, tomorrow people would be hacking each other apart with swords and axes again. Not only that but if all the guns are taken away from law abiding citizens then only the crimminals and the police and military would have them. Then we who wish to be peaceful and law abiding would be nothing more than victims of all of them.
Responsible gun ownership is much more a deterent to crimminals than a police force. The police cannot be everywhere all the time. But, you can have your own protection right there where and when you need it the most.
I don't think your going to find a city anywhere on the planet that doesn't have guns Marcia. Maybe but I haven't heard of any. They did try something like that in Washington DC, they supposedly have the strictest guns laws in the country.
Here's what Lt. Lowel Duckett, president of the Black Police Caucus, and special assistant to the Washington DC Chief of Police had to say...
I got that quote from this article from Gunowners.org
Guns don't kill people, people kill people may be gitting kind of warn out as a saying but it's still true. If all the guns in the world were thrown into the sea today, tomorrow people would be hacking each other apart with swords and axes again. Not only that but if all the guns are taken away from law abiding citizens then only the crimminals and the police and military would have them. Then we who wish to be peaceful and law abiding would be nothing more than victims of all of them.
Responsible gun ownership is much more a deterent to crimminals than a police force. The police cannot be everywhere all the time. But, you can have your own protection right there where and when you need it the most.
Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
I hear this so much that I don't really think about it, but it has been bothering me all day.
People kill people but it sure is a lot easier and a lot faster to kill with a gun than with a knife or with bare hands.
I would feel a lot safer in a city where no one owns guns, than living in a place like the US right now where guns are everywhere. In VA, it is legal to carry concealed weapons. </font>[/QUOTE]Marcia, I am quite fond of reading your posts and find you to be very intelligent and insightful. Despite the fatuitous implications of some participating in this discussion, you are indeed a Godly lady, and I pray for your ministry every single morning during my quiet time with the Almighty.
As some of you know (and Hardsheller can verify!!
Some in this discussion have noted that it is a right guaranteed by the Second Amendment. I would urge you to consider the wording of the amendment, and remember the circumstances surrounding the necessity for this to be inserted in the Bill of Rights. Ask yourself: exactly what was the intent of our fellow Virginian for having that Amendment in the Constitution?
I am purposely leaving out my own opinion on this topic as I want you to consider it for yourself.
As for some who have claimed martyrdom, please exercise some common sense. After all, this is a "Baptist Only" forum. Nobody is being persecuted in this discussion, and to imply otherwise has the potential to trivialize the REAL persecution suffered by many of our fellow Believers.
BiR
poncho
Well-Known Member
"The underlying argument for gun control seems to be that the availability of guns causes crime. by extension, the availability of any weapon would have to be viewed as a cause of crime. What does the Bible say about such a view?
Perhaps we should start at the begining, or at least very close to the begining-- in Genesis 4. In this chapter we read about the first murder. Cain had offered an unacceptable sacrifice, and Cain was upset that God insisted he do the right thing. In other words, Cain was peeved that he could not do his own thing.
Cain decided to kill his brother rather than to get right with God. There were no guns available, although there may have been a knife. Whether it was a knife or a rock, the Bible does not say. The point is, the evil in Cains heart was the cause of the murder, not the availability of the murder weapon.
God's response was not to ban rocks or knives, or whatever, but to banish the murderer. Later (see Genesis 9:5-6) God instituted capital punishment, but said not a word about banning weapons."
The rest of this article can be read here.
The Bible And Gun Control
By Larry Pratt
Executive Vice-President
Gun Owners Foundation
Perhaps we should start at the begining, or at least very close to the begining-- in Genesis 4. In this chapter we read about the first murder. Cain had offered an unacceptable sacrifice, and Cain was upset that God insisted he do the right thing. In other words, Cain was peeved that he could not do his own thing.
Cain decided to kill his brother rather than to get right with God. There were no guns available, although there may have been a knife. Whether it was a knife or a rock, the Bible does not say. The point is, the evil in Cains heart was the cause of the murder, not the availability of the murder weapon.
God's response was not to ban rocks or knives, or whatever, but to banish the murderer. Later (see Genesis 9:5-6) God instituted capital punishment, but said not a word about banning weapons."
The rest of this article can be read here.
The Bible And Gun Control
By Larry Pratt
Executive Vice-President
Gun Owners Foundation
Poncho
"They do indeed take alot of practice."
''
45 minutes a day, every day and I'm a natural with the thing. Ofcourse in the days I used these things in anger I targeted the riot police and not small game. If you use lead ballbearings as projectiles and the right type of material for the device itself, you can break somebodies nose at 50 yards.
"But, to stop an attack on my life"
''
At the supermarket people stare at you in a funny way if you walk in with a weapon designed to hunt elephants.
"They do indeed take alot of practice."
''
45 minutes a day, every day and I'm a natural with the thing. Ofcourse in the days I used these things in anger I targeted the riot police and not small game. If you use lead ballbearings as projectiles and the right type of material for the device itself, you can break somebodies nose at 50 yards.
"But, to stop an attack on my life"
''
At the supermarket people stare at you in a funny way if you walk in with a weapon designed to hunt elephants.
Marcia
Active Member
BiR, thanks for your post and kind words!
I can't help but thinking that if guns were really hard to get in this country, we would all be a lot safer. It just seems like common sense.
My understanding of the 2nd ammendment is that guns are needed for a militia, not for private citizens to have so they can shoot a thief (please see thread on shooting thieves). Apparently, there are a lot of Christians more than willing to shoot someone who steals their TV.
Poncho, as far as Cain goes, it does not make sense to use the analogy of banning rocks or sticks. Those are natural objects.
Well, I am sure I am now in even more trouble than I was before, but I've never fit in so I'm used to it. Christians disliked me when I was an astrologer and they don't like it now when I don't follow the usual Christian stances for guns and for Republicans. Can't win for losing.
I can't help but thinking that if guns were really hard to get in this country, we would all be a lot safer. It just seems like common sense.
My understanding of the 2nd ammendment is that guns are needed for a militia, not for private citizens to have so they can shoot a thief (please see thread on shooting thieves). Apparently, there are a lot of Christians more than willing to shoot someone who steals their TV.
Poncho, as far as Cain goes, it does not make sense to use the analogy of banning rocks or sticks. Those are natural objects.
Well, I am sure I am now in even more trouble than I was before, but I've never fit in so I'm used to it. Christians disliked me when I was an astrologer and they don't like it now when I don't follow the usual Christian stances for guns and for Republicans. Can't win for losing.
poncho
Well-Known Member
I use 1/2 inch steel balls in my slingshots. They seem to fly a good ways with enough force to put a good hurtin on a body. Glass marbles work quite well also.
If you were to use a slingshot or any other type of weapon on the riot police in America today you would most likely be considered an enemy combatant aka terrorist and carted off to some secret place for a secret trial with an appointed military judge and secretly and severly hung or shot.
BTW, I think they have outlawed the power bands for wrist rockets in NYS. Kids were breaking to many windshields or something. The kids probably got away with it but the parents most likely paid the price along with those of us that just liked to knock over tin cans and bunny rabbits.
Oh well I still got my guitar.
Had it not been for guns there would be no America today. There would have been no settlement of the colonies without firearms either in the hands of the colonists or in the hands of the King's Army.
Had we not as individual colonists and frontiersmen brought our rifles to America and then began to make them here, there would have been no Westward expansion and no settlement of our great land.
America was birthed by brave men with one hand on a plow handle and the other gripping a flintlock rifle.
The First Pastor of the Church I now serve was nicknamed "The Fightin' Parson" for his role in the War of 1812 when he and his neighbors saddled up their personal horses, picked up their personal weapons and reported for duty.
We simply cannot deny our history or our national heritage.
Had we not as individual colonists and frontiersmen brought our rifles to America and then began to make them here, there would have been no Westward expansion and no settlement of our great land.
America was birthed by brave men with one hand on a plow handle and the other gripping a flintlock rifle.
The First Pastor of the Church I now serve was nicknamed "The Fightin' Parson" for his role in the War of 1812 when he and his neighbors saddled up their personal horses, picked up their personal weapons and reported for duty.
We simply cannot deny our history or our national heritage.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I know, and if it hadn't been for those guns in the westward expansion there would have been no slaughter of Native American peoples. "Our great land" was already settled so we needed our guns to take it.
I realise that we can't fix the past, but this romantic man and his gun ideology can go a little over the top.
I realise that we can't fix the past, but this romantic man and his gun ideology can go a little over the top.
C4K,
The reality of the history of civilization is that the Strong rule the Weak. There is no reason to believe that reality has changed.
I wouldn't call it Romanticism but Reality.
The reality of the history of civilization is that the Strong rule the Weak. There is no reason to believe that reality has changed.
I wouldn't call it Romanticism but Reality.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Might makes right, I guess?
Singing Cop
<img src=/5667.jpg>
Actually, The Bible does mention guns:
Mark 11:7 And they brought the colt to Jesus
Just kidding.
Prior to becoming an officer of the law, I had 2 occasions to use my firearm to protect my life. Both times the weapons were not fired and both times the subject fled. The first one was so scared he almost passed out. As a police officer I know of a few individuals in my community who carry a firearm in their vehicle and they are well trained with them. On several occasions while on a high-risk traffic stop, late at night, with no backup readily available I have seen these individuals pull off the side of the road to observe the stop. They were far away not to interfere but close enough to respond should I have needed them. That made me feel good! I do NOT recommend citizens doing this, unless they know the officer on a first name basis and he is comfortable with it. In general, most are not. The point is…I would much rather have a firearm available and not need it then to need one and not have it! I have several. A .22 for target plinking, a 20 guage for general small game hunting or blasting away at pumpkins and water bottles, a 9 mm carbine and a .45 Glock for home and personal defense. I believe every capable and law abiding citizen should have at least one quality firearm available to them.
Mark 11:7 And they brought the colt to Jesus
Just kidding.
Prior to becoming an officer of the law, I had 2 occasions to use my firearm to protect my life. Both times the weapons were not fired and both times the subject fled. The first one was so scared he almost passed out. As a police officer I know of a few individuals in my community who carry a firearm in their vehicle and they are well trained with them. On several occasions while on a high-risk traffic stop, late at night, with no backup readily available I have seen these individuals pull off the side of the road to observe the stop. They were far away not to interfere but close enough to respond should I have needed them. That made me feel good! I do NOT recommend citizens doing this, unless they know the officer on a first name basis and he is comfortable with it. In general, most are not. The point is…I would much rather have a firearm available and not need it then to need one and not have it! I have several. A .22 for target plinking, a 20 guage for general small game hunting or blasting away at pumpkins and water bottles, a 9 mm carbine and a .45 Glock for home and personal defense. I believe every capable and law abiding citizen should have at least one quality firearm available to them.
Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
No problem at all. Thanks for always making me think.
Aw, come on: do you really believe that??!!
All kidding aside, if guns were made illegal, the "bad guys" would still find a way to import them. That is why I made the narcotics analogy. As they are already lawbreakers, making guns illegal would only serve to disarm law-abiding citizens.
I think you are partially correct here, but also consider the treatment of the colonists by the British army prior to independence. IMHO, there is "a little more" with respect to the necessity of the Second Amendment.
A disturbing point indeed. I could write a novella on this point alone.
A point worth noting is that Cain did not have access to handguns. Perhaps he would have used one had he been afforded access.
1. You are never in trouble for offering your opinion.
2. Consider our Lord and Savior: He didn't "fit in" (to borrow you phrase) either.
3. If a Christian truly "dislikes" you, then they really to "check themselves." If you don't like a fellow Believer on Earth, what are you going to do when you spend eternity with them?
4. Imagine my particular scenario: I was a right-wing Republican who has undergone a radical departure from this political opinion. The end result is that I have become very progressive, to the point of being left wing. Simultaneously, I have become a better Christian.
5. If God didn't want us to think for ourselves, He would not have given us minds, and made us all spoon-fed automatons. You should never just accept a particular stance simply because everyone else believes it. My parents used to ask me, "If everyone else was jumping off the roof, would you do it too?"
6. Marcia, as a Child of God, you've already won!!
I hope you stay dry this weekend. I am supposed to fly to Columbus, OH on a week-long business trip. Judging by the predicted path of the storm, I may not be on a plane tomorrow.
When it comes to self defense and protecting one's family - YES.
No - I would not shoot someone for stealing my TV. But I would shoot someone for breaking into my home and endangering my family.
I agree that a good watch dog is an asset that takes care of a lot of prowlers and opportunists.
I'll never forget the night my dog's hair stood on end and he growled and barked toward the garage. He was backing up when I walked up behind him with my pistol - that gave him courage to go on into the garage and confront the prowler who by that time had already fled.
I agree that a good watch dog is an asset that takes care of a lot of prowlers and opportunists.
I'll never forget the night my dog's hair stood on end and he growled and barked toward the garage. He was backing up when I walked up behind him with my pistol - that gave him courage to go on into the garage and confront the prowler who by that time had already fled.