Should Christians STRONGLY support the 2ND AMENDMENT?

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Good question, and one which I really have not come to a conclusion on myself.

I am disturbed, however, by the image of armed Christians rising up and killing federal agents in an attempt to avoid persecution. Jesus never advocated this kind of response, saying instead that those who endure persecution for His sake will be blessed. Peter wrote that we are to expect persecution as we follow in Christ's steps. Persecution in the New Testament is the natural result of following Christ.

I don't see any Bible grounds for this concept of killing people to avoid persecution.

 

[Bunyon]

-----"I am disturbed, however, by the image of armed Christians rising up and killing federal agents in an attempt to avoid persecution. Jesus never advocated this kind of response, saying instead that those who endure persecution for His sake will be blessed. Peter wrote that we are to expect persecution as we follow in Christ's steps. Persecution in the New Testament is the natural result of following Christ."

I share you disturbance. But what if you had irrefutable proof that the feds were tortureing and killing Christians, and they came for your child who had insisted on preaching at school? What would you do? What about the Waldensses resisting the Catholic church in the Alps?

None of us want to answer this question, which is why we should do everything we can to preserve our feedoms while we still have them.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I honestly don't know that I could kill a federal agent to avoid being persecuted. I don't see our brothers and sisters in Christ in the first century doing so, or being instructed to do so.

I don't know. I know what my gut says, and know what the Bible says, and in this case they don't seem to be compatible.

 

[Bunyon]

-----"Mind you, I'm not putting down your country because you were born there. You ARE an American. But Jefferson was a traitor I believe. When people rebel against their native country and leave to start their own, doesn't that make them a traitor? If the south were to attempt that today, what would the north do? Let them? Or call them traitors and go to war with them? "

In the case of our founders, they were very careful to lay down their reasons. Basically they said, King George has ignored our rights that are guaranted in the Magna Carter and other places. And in edition he has taxed us unfairly yet deniged us a voice in the Govenment, "taxation without representation". They were saying that King George has forced us into servatude and denyed us our rights as citizens. They saw it as breaking with a tyrant who sought to deprive them and their children their God given rights and the rights they should have had a British subjects. They did not believe in treson and rebellion, which is why they went to so much trouble to explain the reasoning in their departure and also why they appealed to a higher power. In short they said the man had "certain inaliable rights". He is justified to rebel anytime the lower power seeks to deny him the rights guaranted by the ultimate power.

Besides, Canada has had its own rebellion. You are no longer apart of the British empire truly- are you? The difference is you were afforded peacful means and Britain did not send troops to stop you.

Even now the French speaking provencis seek to withdraw from the rest of Canada.

 

[Bunyon]

----"I honestly don't know that I could kill a federal agent to avoid being persecuted. I don't see our brothers and sisters in Christ in the first century doing so, or being instructed to do so."

I don't know. I know what my gut says, and know what the Bible says, and in this case they don't seem to be compatible. "
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Yes it is not an easy answer, and these militia today that are trying to foment rebellion and claim to be christians are clearly wrong. We are nowhere near a state in which violence against federal agents could be justified.

I think we can agree though that if any such action ever be taken it only be taken only in the most extreme of circumstances. But I do want to leave open my option to save my children if need be. It is possible for a govenment to become so tyranical, that to shoot one of its agents would be no different than shooting a rapist or robber or murderer attempting to commit their crime.

Our mision now should be to prevent our govenment from ever getting to that point by using all the democratic means at our disposal.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Judges 4:21 "Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died."

Psalms 144:1 "Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:"

1 Timothy 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel". (which would include providing safety for one's household-just try messing with one of mine)

Our government is wicked! An innocent baby murdered every 20 seconds and sodomites running rampant. God bless America, indeed!

 

[SAMPLEWOW]

WOW, Thats good Granny!

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Thank you kindly, sir. I've enjoyed your posts, btw. Such zeal!

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Brethren,

If you are going to go up against the FBI and the BATF, better enroll in sniper school.

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by ROBERTGUWAPO:
My question is--should we Christians strongly support the 2nd Amendment: The Right to Bear Arms?

My reason is, if your rights to own guns are slowly eroded, you Christians over there would be "easy picking" by leaders who would persecute you for your faith.

Hmmm.

The 2nd amendment simply says----keep your guns!

Jesus on the other hand says---"Let persecution come!"

When I am persecuted for Jesus' sake----I give the opposition "the other cheek"----when someone tells me that I as a Christian must carry their belongings a mile---I carry them two miles!! When they say, "Blackbird---give me your coat!" I give them my cloak also!!!!

On the other hand---when I am persecuted for being a citizen of the United States---and when my rights as a citizen of the United States are all taken away---along with the rights of all other US citizens, be they Christian, muslim, or athiest----and when a foreign army invades the shores of the United States and starts "flippin' and flashin'" a different constitution and admendments before me----I can then ask the Drill Sergeant, "Which way to the rifle range???"

Here's what I believe----if I am threatened and persecuted for being a Christian---I am blessed---I give them my cheek---my cloak---and my coat---my firearm remains holstered. For Jesus said "Blessed are ye when men shall say all manner of evil against you for My name's sake!"

Call me weak if you want---but Jesus told us to be "as wise as serpents but as gentle as doves"---and we are to follow His example---who "witnessed a good report before Pontious Pilate"----and before whom when He appeard before Herod "answered him not a word"----but never once did Jesus command us to pull our swords from their scabbards in retaliation for being persecuted for His name's sake!!!!

You can't whip the devil with your "pea shooter" ---- you whip him with the word --- so you see --- he'll laugh in your face if you come against him with whatever---your "blackpowder primative weapon" or you Uzzy---or your "Nine"---but he'll flee when you stand up and resist him with the word---so given a choice---do I hand over my firearm to the feds---or do I hand over the word----I chose to hand over my firearm---but I will keep the word concealed so that I may not sin against God. Jesus said--"Fear not them who can destroy the body---but fear Him who can destroy both body and spirit in Hell!"

Bro. David

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

There's the answer we need to arrive at as a citizen in a free democracy and then the answer we need to come up with as a Christian. My own belief is that guns have nothing to do with Christianity. If anything, they are anti-Christian if you believe in the sanctity of life (all life including unborn babies).

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
There's the answer we need to arrive at as a citizen in a free democracy and then the answer we need to come up with as a Christian. My own belief is that guns have nothing to do with Christianity. If anything, they are anti-Christian if you believe in the sanctity of life (all life including unborn babies).

StraightandNarrow,

So using guns in self-defense is anti-Christian?

 

[kubel]

Originally posted by ROBERTGUWAPO:
My question is--should we Christians strongly support the 2nd Amendment: The Right to Bear Arms?

Depends if you want to be a Christian in a Republic or in a Dictatorship...

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Matthew 5v44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

I guess you are going to pray for them as you shoot them?

 

[blackbird]

So who ya gonna follow???

Wyatt Urp and Doc Holiday

or

Jesus Christ???

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Well, if the Feds were going to round up me and my family and were gonna put us in an Auschwitz-type concentration camp, starve us, and torture us, because we are Christians--it's gonna be gunfight at the OK Corral!

Do you think I should preach the gospel first--then blow them away? "Attention BATF, you have five minutes to repent and accept the gospel before I blow you to smithereens."

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

How do you answer Matthew 5v44 Robert?

Those aren't my words posted above.

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

C4K,

Well, being criticized, scorned, and slapped around for your faith is one thing. But being taken away to be hanged, guillotined, or incinerated Nazi-style is another thing. I say I would exercise whatever means to protect me and my family's God-given life.

(It's time for all baptists to be NRA Lifetime Members! Head for the hills men!)

 

[Bunyon]

------"When I am persecuted for Jesus' sake----I give the opposition "the other cheek"----when someone tells me that I as a Christian must carry their belongings a mile---I carry them two miles!! When they say, "Blackbird---give me your coat!" I give them my cloak also!!!!"----------


Check out the Sudan. Christians hunted down by a muslim government and hacked with mechetties, hanged on crosses, raped etc. wholsale. So you are trying to tell me if you were in Sudan and one of the "fed" grabed your child and took her into a dark room for a little fun before he killed her, You are just going to leave the gun in the drawer and turn the other cheek (that is hand over another daugheter). I really would like to here your answere an that one. And I guess you would hand over antoher Jew to Hitler and not pop a cap in him if you had the opprotunity. Read about Rev. Detrich Bonhoeffer.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by ROBERTGUWAPO:
C4K,

Well, being criticized, scorned, and slapped around for your faith is one thing. But being taken away to be hanged, guillotined, or incinerated Nazi-style is another thing. I say I would exercise whatever means to protect me and my family's God-given life.

(It's time for all baptists to be NRA Lifetime Members! Head for the hills men!)

Jesus did not define persecution as being mild here here. He knew what kind of persecution was coming. He knew Christians were to line the roads to Rome on crosses and set of fire to light the caesar's way, yet he did not say, "Rise up and kill those who come to persecute you." He said, "pray for them that persecute you."

More from Jesus on persecution:

Matthew 5v10-12 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.