Should Christians strongly support the SECOND AMENDMENT?

[corndogggy]

This man actually believed that Christians should just allow the world to kill them and not even try to protect themselves.

Matthew
10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[percho]

Christians should be armed to the teeth! In church, out of church, be licensed to carry concealed, have a good stock pile of ammo, teach their wives and children how to shoot and when the bad guys comes through the door at 2 AM to satisfy their drug habit..., arrange an appointment betwix him and the Lord.

"I'm with you fellers," O Brother Where Art Thou

 

[corndogggy]

teach their wives and children how to shoot and when the bad guys comes through the door at 2 AM to satisfy their drug habit.

Proverbs 25:21
If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:


Matthew
5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil

5:42 Give to him that asketh thee
5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

[PreachTony]

Matthew
10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

So, corndoggy, I take you accept all violence visited upon you, you would never think of defending yourself or your family, and you do not believe that people should take a stand when government becomes corrupt and tyrannical?

From the scripture you quoted: "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

Seems that part says the rulers should do good unto the people, and it goes even further to say a ruler should be a "minister of God." How many rulers in today's world serve as "ministers of God?" I can't really think of any, especially here in the US, where our politicians (and to quote Valerie Jarrett, our "ruler" Barack Obama) are actually trying harder and harder to remove God from the public conscience.

 

[percho]

Our Father which art in heaven..............


And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

And then there will be no need for guns.

 

[corndogggy]

Christians should be armed to the teeth! In church, out of church, be licensed to carry concealed, have a good stock pile of ammo

Matthew
6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[corndogggy]

So, corndoggy, I take you accept all violence visited upon you, you would never think of defending yourself or your family, and you do not believe that people should take a stand when government becomes corrupt and tyrannical?

Whether or not I would do something and whether or not I think it is biblical are two different things. It's not biblical.

 

[PreachTony]

Whether or not I would do something and whether or not I think it is biblical are two different things. It's not biblical.

I appreciate your use of scripture to back up your point of view, though I would like to know why you think Jesus would tell people to buy a sword if he did not mean for them to protect themselves?

 

[corndogggy]

Seems that part says the rulers should do good unto the people, and it goes even further to say a ruler should be a "minister of God." How many rulers in today's world serve as "ministers of God?" I can't really think of any, especially here in the US, where our politicians (and to quote Valerie Jarrett, our "ruler" Barack Obama) are actually trying harder and harder to remove God from the public conscience.

2 Peter
2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2:10 But chiefly them that… despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities…

… speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

 

[corndogggy]

I would like to know why you think Jesus would tell people to buy a sword if he did not mean for them to protect themselves?

You're getting lazy on me. Go up a few posts. #19.

 

[RLBosley]

Christians should be armed to the teeth! In church, out of church, be licensed to carry concealed, have a good stock pile of ammo, teach their wives and children how to shoot and when the bad guys comes through the door at 2 AM to satisfy their drug habit..., arrange an appointment betwix him and the Lord.

That's just sad... :tear:

1) What USA's founders did doesn't make it right. I'm not so sure they should have revolted against England.

2) I don't care which country is ruling the USA. I currently live in Central America... so Spain not England.

3) There is a deeper issue at work here. I think some Christians are so star-spangled for USA that they ignore where their true citizenship lies. If Christians had the same vigor for Jesus (and Jesus' methods) as they do for right-wing politics and patriotism, revival would be around the corner.

:thumbsup:

Jesus was very clear regarding arming ourselves for the purpose of self defense.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

What's the next verse say?

From the scripture you quoted: "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

Seems that part says the rulers should do good unto the people, and it goes even further to say a ruler should be a "minister of God." How many rulers in today's world serve as "ministers of God?" I can't really think of any, especially here in the US, where our politicians (and to quote Valerie Jarrett, our "ruler" Barack Obama) are actually trying harder and harder to remove God from the public conscience.

All of this world's rulers are ministers of God in that God is sovereign over all and he is in control of them all. That's the point of that text, that God is supremely sovereign over even the most wicked of earthly rulers. Remember, Nero was emperor when that was written.

Pro 21:1 NASB - The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.

 

[corndogggy]

I appreciate your use of scripture to back up your point of view

My point of view is that I was walking around my house just this morning at 4 AM with a 9mm because my dog was barking. That don't make it biblical.

 

[RLBosley]

Except it wasn't for self defense. The only way you can make it sound like this is if you stop where you did. Problem is, that's cutting him off halfway into his statement. What's the very next two verses? Something that tells you exactly why he wants the swords and exactly how many are enough:

Luke
22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.


Cross reference this with the old testament and you will see that he was trying to fulfill a prophecy:

Isaiah
53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


Also common sense should tell you that if twelve people were walking into a bad situation, if they really wanted swords for self defense they wouldn't have abruptly stopped at two of them.

Nevermind that when Peter drew one of these swords Jesus told him to put it up, that those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

:thumbsup::applause:

 

[PreachTony]

All of this world's rulers are ministers of God in that God is sovereign over all and he is in control of them all. That's the point of that text, that God is supremely sovereign over even the most wicked of earthly rulers. Remember, Nero was emperor when that was written.

Looking at the statement "God is sovereign over all and he is in control of them all" I have some questions/concerns. Making an inference from this statement, I conclude that no one in a position of Authority is capable of acting as a free moral agent. "[God] is in control of them all" carries a connotation of lack of free will.

If that is indeed the case, then God is responsible for a long list of atrocities that we all are usually very quick to ascribe to mankind simply claiming the name of God. From the Crusades to the Holocaust to the current epidemics of drug use, sexual depravity, and abortion, all of these causes have their human "ruler" backers. If these rulers lack free will, as this statement implies, then they cannot be held accountable for their transgressions. ***Please note, I'm not saying this because it is something I believe. I'm just inferring from the statement above.***

 

[Greektim]

3) There is a deeper issue at work here. I think some Christians are so star-spangled for USA that they ignore where their true citizenship lies. If Christians had the same vigor for Jesus (and Jesus' methods) as they do for right-wing politics and patriotism, revival would be around the corner.

Don't step on my patriotism, pal. I wore the uniform to maintain the freedom's that we enjoy, such a this forum.

As for the "revival"..., ain't gonna happen and know for sure, I'm a proud Conservative. You remain "left-wing" and I'll stay Conservative.

Case and point... Transfer that enthusiasm for your flag, country, patriotism, etc. into the gospel... get back, Jack. Revival is a comin'. Although you seem sure it is not. Thus your clinging to guns would be for what end? To continue a godless nation aborting millions? Have at it, sir.

BTW... I'm not leftist. I'm just trying to be a Christian first before I am a citizen of this world.

 

[RLBosley]

Looking at the statement "God is sovereign over all and he is in control of them all" I have some questions/concerns. Making an inference from this statement, I conclude that no one in a position of Authority is capable of acting as a free moral agent. "[God] is in control of them all" carries a connotation of lack of free will.

If that is indeed the case, then God is responsible for a long list of atrocities that we all are usually very quick to ascribe to mankind simply claiming the name of God. From the Crusades to the Holocaust to the current epidemics of drug use, sexual depravity, and abortion, all of these causes have their human "ruler" backers. If these rulers lack free will, as this statement implies, then they cannot be held accountable for their transgressions. ***Please note, I'm not saying this because it is something I believe. I'm just inferring from the statement above.***

What I mean is that while yes they make genuine choices and are thus responsible, God is also sovereign and nothing they do is outside of his control. God is sovereign and man is responsible.

 

[RLBosley]

I just realized I never commented on the OP. Sorry about that.

I personally support the 2nd amendment because the threat of deadly force is the most effective way IMO to control the wickedness of pagans.

However, I think that Christians would actually be better off if we did not avail ourselves to the use of it. We are to be gentle, and harmless - loving our enemies as Christ did and entrusting ourselves to the One who will execute perfect justice.

So I support the 2nd amendment, but feel it should be used only by the unbeliever in order to defend himself from other unbelievers.

 

[Rolfe]

 

[Rolfe]

I just realized I never commented on the OP. Sorry about that.

I personally support the 2nd amendment because the threat of deadly force is the most effective way IMO to control the wickedness of pagans.

However, I think that Christians would actually be better off if we did not avail ourselves to the use of it. We are to be gentle, and harmless - loving our enemies as Christ did and entrusting ourselves to the One who will execute perfect justice.

So I support the 2nd amendment, but feel it should be used only by the unbeliever in order to defend himself from other unbelievers.

Justice and defense are two different things.

 

[PreachTony]

That's a bit of an over-simplification, Rolf, though I agree with much of the sentiment. Using historical figures to prove points opens up a new can of worms, though.

EDIT: Please note, this is in response to Post #38, with the picture Rolf posted.