Should every Christian be a young Earth creationist?

[SavedByGrace]

Isn't it interesting that God in the beginning created all things by speaking.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

When? In the beginning!

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Isn't it interesting that the light came into the world at the end of God's 4th day. Coincidence?

The "in the beginning" of John 1:1, is eternity past and not the beginning of Creation in Genesis 1:1, which is in verse 3!

 

[JD731]

The "in the beginning" of John 1:1, is eternity past and not the beginning of Creation in Genesis 1:1, which is in verse 3!

Think about what you are saying.

 

[Silverhair]

If you can prove from the Hebrew grammar there is a gap between Genesis 1.1 and 1.2, then let's see it here

I say that this is IMPOSSIBLE

Your the one that keeps with your YE creationism. The text does not support your view as I just showed.

Read the text SBG. Hebrew scholars did the translation so if you have a problem with the translation then you will have to prove that they were wrong.

Whether the text supports a gap or not is not the question of this thread is it?

What it does not support is your YE view. And it also fits with the rest of scripture.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Think about what you are saying.

I always think before I write

 

[Silverhair]

The Bible speaks of no gap from Gen 1:1 to 1:2

Whether one hold to a YE or OE or even the Gap theory of creation it is just an opinion.

All we can do is trust what we have written in scripture.

Some will find YE others OE or even a Gap.

I have not really concerned myself about it as the bible tells me that God created what we have from nothing and I believe it.

Since we were not there anything other than that IMO is just speculation.

 

[Baptist Believer]

At least you should say why no?

Fair enough:

(1) Because the scripture doesn't point to young earth creationism. Genesis 1-2 does not, and can only be supported if one takes as the description of death entering the world through one man to specifically mean that nothing died prior to Adam's sin (What about the death of the fruit harvested and eaten in the Garden?) instead of a moral statement regarding one's relationship with God. Remember, we don't expect human beings to be impervious to physical death in this present age even though Jesus has given many of us eternal life. It only makes sense that Paul is probably not talking about physical death for all living things simply based on the sin of Adam. Paul is clearly talking about a more specific reality.

(2) General revelation (evidence from creation that we can observe for ourselves) points to extreme age (in human terms) in the billions of years. Both believers and unbelievers can recognize this.

Personally, the last last vestiges of the young earth interpretation disappeared back in the early 1990s when I was driving through eastern New Mexico on the way back to Texas and had a lot of time to look at a massive fossilized coral reef system easily seen from the highway. I had explored various smaller fossilized reefs in Central and West Texas while in college on geology field trips and gathered fossilized remains, so I easily recognized what I was seeing. The magnitude of the reef system, as well as the amount of erosion present, revealed the reef system was millions of years old at a minimum. And even "Answers in Genesis" can't adequately undermine that physical evidence, even though they do an admirable job of alleging that "most" of those ancient reef systems are actually dislocated due to tremendous forces during the flood of Noah. And if they were dislocated, you still have to prove they are only a few thousand years old. To claim a young earth, you have to disprove ALL evidence of ancient formations, with no exceptions. One exception destroys the whole theory.

Of course, the usual excuse is the claim of "apparent age," but that makes God a deceiver of those who are trying to love God with their minds (Matthew 22:27), which would make God Someone Who is not like the loving Father Jesus described. Then that would mean that Jesus is not a reliable representative of God, nor the exact representation of His nature (Hebrews 1:3; Colossians 1:15; John 1:18; etc.).

 

[Baptist Believer]

It’s hard for someone who is not a 6 Day to explain evening and morning and 1st/2nd/3rd etc.

It's not hard at all. What is hard is getting people to reconsider their opinions.

there should be 10s of thousands intermediate life forms- we have none

False.

why did evolution stop?

It hasn't. It just happens fairly slowly.

Evolution disregards all scientific data we have -even now

It does not.

the Bible explains the water cycle which was unknown to science until the 1700s

If it was in the Bible, it was not unknown. What you are probably trying to say is that it was not recognized by the Western scientific community (such as it was) until the 1700s. We still are not completely sure how the ancient Greeks and Romans constructed some of their magnificent temples and infrastructure, but that does not mean that ancient people didn't have that knowledge.

the Bible attests to the Assyrians which at one time was scorned by liberals who said they never existed, but were proven wrong 100 yrs ago.

This is a non sequitur. Opinions of "the liberals" (whoever they were) have nothing to do with this subject.

The Bible attests to the Earth being suspended in space as a sphere. Anyone else hear of the “flat Earth Theory”. Yes, it’s imaginary.

Ancient peoples (contrasted with some morons today) knew the earth was round. The Greeks even approximated the diameter of the earth to a remarkable degree of precision.

And, you cannot have death before sin as stated in Romans and sin was not introduced until the fall in the Garden of Eden

The description of death entering the world through one man does not mean that nothing died prior to Adam's sin (What about the death of the fruit harvested and eaten in the Garden?). Rather, it is a moral statement regarding one's relationship with God. Remember, we don't expect human beings to be impervious to physical death in this present age even though Jesus has given many of us eternal life. It only makes sense that Paul is probably not talking about physical death for all living things simply based on the sin of Adam. Paul is clearly talking about a more specific reality.

 

[37818]

Explain exactly how you can believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 and not believe in a young earth?

The heavens and earth were created at an unspecified beginning. And from that beginning to the beginning of the first day, Genesis 1:3, has an unspecified time to it's beginning.

 

[Silverhair]

Talking about suppositions. You are supposing there are gaps. Show us one. If the creation is not 6000 years old then there is no good reason to study the scriptures for faith and knowledge.

The fact of creation, the fact of salvation through the grace of God, the fact Christ died for the sins of mankind. Your trusting it what some man tells you rather than what the Holy Spirit has inspired. You have a serious problem with where you place your trust.

 

[Silverhair]

All you can do is snipe but have failed to disprove that the earth is YOUNG!

You have failed to prove that it is. What you have is speculation at best.

 

[JD731]

The fact of creation, the fact of salvation through the grace of God, the fact Christ died for the sins of mankind. Your trusting it what some man tells you rather than what the Holy Spirit has inspired. You have a serious problem with where you place your trust.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Ps 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Pr 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Isa 24:18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isa 51:13 And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?
Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Mr 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Mr 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Mt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mr 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Lu 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world (aion = age) marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world (aion = age), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

One should ponder these verses and meditate upon them and conclude some things employing reason and logic and faith.

 

[JD731]

Fair enough:

(1) Because the scripture doesn't point to young earth creationism. Genesis 1-2 does not, and can only be supported if one takes as the description of death entering the world through one man to specifically mean that nothing died prior to Adam's sin (What about the death of the fruit harvested and eaten in the Garden?) instead of a moral statement regarding one's relationship with God. Remember, we don't expect human beings to be impervious to physical death in this present age even though Jesus has given many of us eternal life. It only makes sense that Paul is probably not talking about physical death for all living things simply based on the sin of Adam. Paul is clearly talking about a more specific reality.

(2) General revelation (evidence from creation that we can observe for ourselves) points to extreme age (in human terms) in the billions of years. Both believers and unbelievers can recognize this.

Personally, the last last vestiges of the young earth interpretation disappeared back in the early 1990s when I was driving through eastern New Mexico on the way back to Texas and had a lot of time to look at a massive fossilized coral reef system easily seen from the highway. I had explored various smaller fossilized reefs in Central and West Texas while in college on geology field trips and gathered fossilized remains, so I easily recognized what I was seeing. The magnitude of the reef system, as well as the amount of erosion present, revealed the reef system was millions of years old at a minimum. And even "Answers in Genesis" can't adequately undermine that physical evidence, even though they do an admirable job of alleging that "most" of those ancient reef systems are actually dislocated due to tremendous forces during the flood of Noah. And if they were dislocated, you still have to prove they are only a few thousand years old. To claim a young earth, you have to disprove ALL evidence of ancient formations, with no exceptions. One exception destroys the whole theory.

Of course, the usual excuse is the claim of "apparent age," but that makes God a deceiver of those who are trying to love God with their minds (Matthew 22:27), which would make God Someone Who is not like the loving Father Jesus described. Then that would mean that Jesus is not a reliable representative of God, nor the exact representation of His nature (Hebrews 1:3; Colossians 1:15; John 1:18; etc.).

The scriptures tells us about people who reach their conclusions by sight.. It says the world by wisdom knew not God. He says he has made foolishness the wisdom of this world. We walk by faith, not by sight, God says.

 

[Silverhair]

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Ps 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Pr 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Isa 24:18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isa 51:13 And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?
Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Mr 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Mr 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Mt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mr 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Lu 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world (aion = age) marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world (aion = age), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

One should ponder these verses and meditate upon them and conclude some things employing reason and logic and faith.

You must not have read the rest of my posts. I am not concerned about your YE or OE or Gap theory. All of them are just speculation as far as I am concerned. People waste to much time fighting over the non essentials. I know God created the heavens and the earth and that is good enough for me.

Nice to see you can do copy paste.

Lots of verses but to what point?

These relate to the thread in what way?

 

[SavedByGrace]

I am not concerned about your YE or OE or Gap theory. All of them are just speculation as far as I am concerned

NO they are most certainly NOT!

The Bible NEVER speculates! It is IMPOSSIBLE to have any GAP or OLD EARTH!

 

[Deacon]

Worth reading: this is a simple, concise review of various views of biblical creationism found on Logos Bible Software’s Bible Study site.

What Is the Age of the Earth according to the Bible? [link]

Outline
What are the different views of Genesis?
1. Young Earth Creationists (YEC)
2. Old Earth Creationists (OEC)
3. Theistic Evolutionists (TE)

What factors influence Christian’s view of Genesis?

How do Young Earth Creationists calculate the age of the Earth?

How do Old Earth Creationists interpret the six creation days of Genesis?
1. The Day-Age theory
2. The Analogical-Day theory
3. The Framework theory
4. The Gap theory

What scientific evidence is cited to defend YEC?

What scientific evidence is cited to defend OEC?

What scientific evidence is cited to defend TE?

What are common criticisms of the different views, and what are the responses?

How should Christians engage those with differing views on the age of the earth?

Christians should engage those with different views on the age of the earth and related questions charitably and patiently. Sincere Christians have come to different conclusions, since tensions exist for each perspective. Christians should also make every effort not to caricature alternative views. God shows us abundant grace, even if our scientific and theological ideas are imperfect.​

 

[JD731]

You must not have read the rest of my posts. I am not concerned about your YE or OE or Gap theory. All of them are just speculation as far as I am concerned. People waste to much time fighting over the non essentials. I know God created the heavens and the earth and that is good enough for me.

Nice to see you can do copy paste.

Lots of verses but to what point?

These relate to the thread in what way?

You must not remember what you write. I posted what God said because you accused me of not believing inspired scripture and posting my own ideas when you are insisting the truth of the creation account does not matter to God and should not matter to us. You say the creation account is speculation, a non essential, and it does not matter what one believes about it.

Silverhair said: ↑
The fact of creation, the fact of salvation through the grace of God, the fact Christ died for the sins of mankind. Your trusting it what some man tells you rather than what the Holy Spirit has inspired. You have a serious problem with where you place your trust.

Faith in the word of God is an essential of the Christian faith. The creation account is foundational. It is a thread that runs through the scriptures, beginning to end, as my post proves. Your reasoning and your preaching is terribly flawed.

 

[JD731]

The first 2500 years of human history is NOT an eye witness account of any man. If one doubts the record of what was said and done they are doubting the record that God gave.

 

[Silverhair]

NO they are most certainly NOT!

The Bible NEVER speculates! It is IMPOSSIBLE to have any GAP or OLD EARTH!

Did I say the bible speculates, NO. I said all your various views, YE, OE or Gap, are.

You keep saying all but your YE is impossible but you have given no proof of such, it is just your opinion.

I am not saying you are wrong or right SBG.

I just do not see why people get so upset over YE, OE or that Gap view. The most important verse is
Gen 1:1 In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth,

In reality would it really change anything if it was OE or even Gap. NO. God is the creator and He can do as He chooses.

My trust in God is not based on the timeline but on the fact of creation. Even those that hold to the "Big Bank" are confronted with there was nothing and then there was.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist." Stephen Hawking
The question Hawking never answered was why those laws of physics exist? Another thing that is not answered is, if there is nothing then what does gravity work upon to create something?

Stephen Hawking wants us to believe that a nebulous set of theories, {M-theory} which cannot be confirmed through observational data, absolutely establishes that an infinite number of diverse universes exist, having been created from laws of physics that just happen to allow this.

"For more than two decades string theory has been the most popular candidate for the unified theory that Hawking envisioned 30 years ago. Yet this popularity stems not from the theory's actual merits but rather from the lack of decent alternatives and the stubborn refusal of enthusiasts to abandon their faith." John Horgan (Scientific American)

 

[SavedByGrace]

Did I say the bible speculates, NO. I said all your various views, YE, OE or Gap, are.

You keep saying all but your YE is impossible but you have given no proof of such, it is just your opinion.

I am not saying you are wrong or right SBG.

I just do not see why people get so upset over YE, OE or that Gap view. The most important verse is
Gen 1:1 In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth,

In reality would it really change anything if it was OE or even Gap. NO. God is the creator and He can do as He chooses.

My trust in God is not based on the timeline but on the fact of creation. Even those that hold to the "Big Bank" are confronted with there was nothing and then there was.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist." Stephen Hawking
The question Hawking never answered was why those laws of physics exist? Another thing that is not answered is, if there is nothing then what does gravity work upon to create something?

Stephen Hawking wants us to believe that a nebulous set of theories, {M-theory} which cannot be confirmed through observational data, absolutely establishes that an infinite number of diverse universes exist, having been created from laws of physics that just happen to allow this.

"For more than two decades string theory has been the most popular candidate for the unified theory that Hawking envisioned 30 years ago. Yet this popularity stems not from the theory's actual merits but rather from the lack of decent alternatives and the stubborn refusal of enthusiasts to abandon their faith." John Horgan (Scientific American)

Lets make it simple

The Hebrew grammar of Genesis 1.2 destroys any idea of a GAP with verse 1

The 6 Days of Creation are literal 24 hour

So Where can anyone get an old earth from

 

[Silverhair]

You must not remember what you write. I posted what God said because you accused me of not believing inspired scripture and posting my own ideas when you are insisting the truth of the creation account does not matter to God and should not matter to us. You say the creation account is speculation, a non essential, and it does not matter what one believes about it.



Faith in the word of God is an essential of the Christian faith. The creation account is foundational. It is a thread that runs through the scriptures, beginning to end, as my post proves. Your reasoning and your preaching is terribly flawed.

I do not have to trust in your YE or OE or Gap to trust in God. What I know from scripture is that God created all we see and do not see. Beyond that what you are presenting is speculation drawn from the particular view that you hold.