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Should God have compassion?

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by TomMann:
Focus by yourself... I already know the truth!!!!
Those "text devoid" responses that completely ignore the "problem for Calvinism" in Jonah 4 are a dime a dozen from Calvinists here.

Calvinists "claiming" they have no fear of Jonah 4 -- yet post after post shows them to duck, dodge avoid and misdirect when it comes to this unwelcomed chapter!

Every detail I highlight IN The chapter is treated by Calvinists AS IF some horrible truth had been revealed about Calvinism and must be avoided at all costs!!


How "instructive".

Can any Calvinist truly claim to be "sincere" after seeing the antics played here by Calvinists??!!

In Christ,

Bob
 

TomMann

New Member
The truth is plainly stated in scripture and you have been the duck, dodge, avoid, misdirect king in trying to deny that truth.

I am not a calvanist.... though I do believe some of the things calvin believed. I do not believe it because he believed it, but because scripture declares it. You sir are close minded to all except that which promotes your own agenda. I wonder if you like Thomas Jefferson have just cut out of scripture those parts that offend you.

Aside from that I apologize for shooting at you, I did not at the time know that you were unarmed...
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
I agree that the truth is plainly stated in scripture. In this thread I have had the complete freedom to quote and comment on "the details of Jonah 4" because they are so well suited to debunk the Calvinist view.

Those who find it hard to even quote the text much less embrace "its details" show that they have a doctrinal bias that does not tolerate this scripture "in the least".

This is incredibly obvious after watching so many exchanges where "the chapter is avoided" when it comes to "That LIST" God gives in HIS argument with Jonah.

Hence my joy in simply quoting the chapter!

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
My thoughts on a Bible Chapter that Calvinist supposed would never be written!

Jonah 4 (NASB)
Jonah's Displeasure Rebuked

Jonah 4
1But it greatly displeased Jonah and he became angry.
2He prayed to the LORD and said, "Please LORD, was not this what I said while I was still in my own country? Therefore in order to forestall this I fled to Tarshish, for I knew that You are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, and one who relents concerning calamity.
3"Therefore now, O LORD, please take my life from me, for death is better to me than life."
In this case the “it” that displeased Jonah in chapter 4 is the fact that God is NOT going to destroy the city. Jonah does not express his full displeasure with the decision of God until he sees that God has decided NOT to destroy the city.

Notice the ending of Jonah 3 as the wicked king of Nineveh seeks mercy where no mercy was announced?

The destruction was predicted to occur “in 40 days”. Notice that in chapter 3 the end result is “God did not do it”.


Jonah 3
9"Who knows, God may turn and relent and withdraw His burning anger so that we will not perish."
10When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it.
[/quote]

Jonah’s message to the city was not “REPENT and believe or else you will be destroyed”. His message was only “40 days and YOU WILL be destroyed”. Jonah was working for a specific “end” in mind.

Jonah 3
4Then Jonah began to go through the city one day's walk; and he cried out and said, "Yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown."
But as chapter 3 points out “God did not do it”

So now – there is the confrontation in chapter 4 between God AND HIS prophet! A confrontation where the REASONS for God “not doing it” are the focus of the chapter (As much as Calvinists can not allow themselves to admit this obvious fact).

Jonah 4
4The LORD said, "Do you have good reason to be angry?"
5Then Jonah went out from the city and sat east of it. There he made a shelter for himself and sat under it in the shade until he could see what would happen in the city.
6So the LORD God appointed a plant and it grew up over Jonah to be a shade over his head to deliver him from his discomfort. And Jonah was extremely happy about the plant.
7But God appointed a worm when dawn came the next day and it attacked the plant and it withered.
8When the sun came up God appointed a scorching east wind, and the sun beat down on Jonah's head so that he became faint and begged with all his soul to die, saying, "Death is better to me than life."
Jonah is clearly displeased and angry. God’s challenge has been “do you have good reason to be angry” and this will extend to “the reasons” God has for showing mercy in the next phase of their discussion.

Jonah 4

9Then God said to Jonah, "Do you have good reason to be angry about the plant?" And he said, "I have good reason to be angry, even to death."
10Then the LORD said, "You had compassion on the plant for which you did not work and which you did not cause to grow, which came up overnight and perished overnight.

11"Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?"
 

TomMann

New Member
Wow, you debunked calvanism all by yourself.. take a bow Bob!!!!

Oh no, wait, there are still millions of us that know the truth and don't accept your asinine theory.....

Better sit back down.....
 

ascund

New Member
Bob is a hoot.

He thinks that his Christ-denying human-centered self-righteous theology of death can "correct" a God-honoring Christ-centered theology of life.

He is quick to cry "Lord, Lord!" yet he denies Jesus in virtually every aspect of his heretical theology.

Bob - - - take the telephone pole out of your eye so that you can see the spec in Calvin's eye.
 

ascund

New Member
Hey Bob

Question: Can Jesus save to the UTTERMOST?


Tis an easy question! Watch him dance and run in circles.

Who should we believe?

Bible that says Jesus saves to the UTTERMOST (Heb 7:25) - or - Bob who thinks that salvation depends on self-righteousness?

(Rhetoric question)
LLoyd
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Yes He can. Does "to the UTTERMOST" mean "Turn you into a robot"???

In that case -- pick another more robotic term if that is what you mean. I realize that Robotic-salvation may fit your doctrinal bent - but it is not in the text.

Now BACK to the OP and the subject - of Jonah 4. The text that so displeases you.

In Christ,

bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by TomMann:
Wow, you debunked calvanism all by yourself.. take a bow Bob!!!!

I have a better idea - lets just return to the text that so displeases the Calvinists here -- Jonah 4.

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
I am amazed that in my post above -- that LOOKS AT Jonah 4 -- the only responses posted here are text-less complaints devoid of scripture and any reference AT ALL to chapter 4.

As if they need to "confess with every post" that they are offended by the very CHAPTER itself!!

In Christ,

Bob
 

TomMann

New Member
Bob, we can again address Jonah 4 over and over and over and over and over....... which you seem intent on doing.... What we can't do is arrive at your conclusion.... it makes no sense....
 

TomMann

New Member
Bob, we can again address Jonah 4 over and over and over and over and over....... which you seem intent on doing.... What we can't do is arrive at your conclusion.... it makes no sense....
 

ascund

New Member
Hey Bob

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Yes He can. Does "to the UTTERMOST" mean "Turn you into a robot"???

In that case -- pick another more robotic term if that is what you mean. I realize that Robotic-salvation may fit your doctrinal bent - but it is not in the text.
This is more silliness from you Bob. Since when does anyone equate "UTTERMOST" with robotics?

"UTTERMOST" is equated with OSAS. This is but one of the all-sufficient ministries of Christ on our behalf. It is why I can rightly call your theology a Christ-denying human-centered self-righteous system of death!

But when one cannot (or will not) utilize the biblical evidences of justification in parallel with yet distinct from sanctification, then error happens at every subsequent step. You are wrong in every post because you simply cannot understand justification.

Lloyd
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by TomMann:
Wow, you debunked calvanism all by yourself.. take a bow Bob!!!!

Oh no, wait, there are still millions of us that know the truth and don't accept your asinine theory.....

What Tom am I speaking to now ?? Is this "I am not a Calvinist Tom"? or is this "We Calvinists have millions of bretheren so go away Arminians - Tom"??
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by ascund:
This is more silliness from you Bob. Since when does anyone equate "UTTERMOST" with robotics?
hmm.

"Lost mhy free will after I got saved Lloyd" comes to mind.

As well as "Dropped the Biblical teaching on perseverance - Lloyd".

Both of those guys come to mind when you ask that question...

No back to the ACTUAL topic of the thread.

How does God's OWN LIST in Jonah 4 fit your doctrine on why "God SHOULD have compassion on the wicked"?

IN Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by TomMann:
[QB] Bob, we can again address Jonah 4 over and over and over and over
Do you ever sling any accusation that can actually be supported with Fact Tom??

Even one??

For example - can you SHOW yourself quoting and answering Jonah 4 "over and over and over" again?

No?

Hmmm - how "instructive".

Now back to the actual chapter instead of the typical ranting that has been getting tossed out here by you and a few others.

In Christ,

Bob
 

TomMann

New Member
Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
KJV

Let us see, shall I believe God, or Bob...... God or Bob.... Hmmmmmmm!!!!!
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Yet that is a good one. If only the book of Jonah ENDED in chapter 3.

How the Arminians would have loved THAT!

But Calvinism chokes ALOST AS HARD on "God SAW their works... and God repented" as It does on the LIST of Jonah 4.

You point to the Arminian perfect ending in Jonah 3 AS IF ignoring Jonah 4 and holding fast to that ARMINIAN point in Jonah 3 -- solves the problem for Calvinists!

There was a point a few pages back when you were pretending not to fear Jonah 4. Since all I am asking for is a careful, detailed ACCEPTANCE of chapter 4 why in the world do you feel compelled to ignore the chapter -- post after post after post?

It does not.

In Christ,

Bob
 

TomMann

New Member
Bob, I think you have lost track of who the calninist and the arminians are.... Didn't you mean to say that the calvinist would have loved the book to end with chapter 3 and visa versa...

There is no pretense in lack of fear of Jonah 4. I have read thru it many times and have no objection to it... It doesn't make your point the way you think it should, at least not to me. I am sure there are some that will accept your ideas on it.... Not a problem... I just don't happen to agree.

My beliefs do not hinge on calvin or calvinism but rather reading and studying.... and praying over what I have read....

Your attitude seems to be that anyone that doesn't agree with you is stupid, or uneducated, or perhaps even unsaved. You seem to be on a mission to save the world..... will let ya know that I already have a Savior, and from what I read, He doesn't agree with you either.....
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by TomMann:
Bob, I think you have lost track of who the calninist and the arminians are.... Didn't you mean to say that the calvinist would have loved the book to end with chapter 3 and visa versa...
I meant to say that ARMINIANS dearly love the Jonah 3:10 statement as it Portrays God as SEEING repentance and then after SEEING that repentance God TURNS from His plan to destroy.

That is perfect Arminianism - but lousy Calvinism.

I love that text - however it is not the focus of this thread.

In fact I would love to start a thread ON Jonah 3:10 -- to see just how fast Calvinists run away from "that one too".

It is just that the MOST EXTREME example for the Arminian view is NOT in chapter 3 - but in chapter 4 where the LIST God gives is SO EXTREME it even stresses the ARMINIAN view!

Which of course means it "NUKES" Calvinism!

In Christ,

Bob
 
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