SaggyWoman
Active Member
Statement #3--
What does it take to win the lost? Is it through a relationship?
What does it take to win the lost? Is it through a relationship?
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Should I accept this invitation?
- Thread starter Debby in Philly
- Start date
SaggyWoman
Active Member
Statement #4--
If you decline and he asks why, don't make excuses. Tell him why.
If you decline and he asks why, don't make excuses. Tell him why.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
Statement #5--
Do you not want to go because he is gay? Do you feel you are being compromised by going? Then don't go.
Do you not want to go because he is gay? Do you feel you are being compromised by going? Then don't go.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
Statement # I can't remember what number I am on--
He isn't a brother. So Dr. Bob can't really use that verse like that. He is lost. He is doing what a lost person does.
He isn't a brother. So Dr. Bob can't really use that verse like that. He is lost. He is doing what a lost person does.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
Statement #7--I agree with what GB said.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
Statement #8--I would also agree to go with what the conviction of the Holy Spirit on your life would say.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
Statement #9--I am tired of making statements. Enough already.
paulsfocus
New Member
Proverbs 22:24 & 25- "24 Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go: 25 Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snair to thy soul."
I realize this verse isn't talking about a sodomite, but I believe that it very much applys to your situation.
The Bible also tells us to "come out from among them and be ye separate".
Street Preacher
I realize this verse isn't talking about a sodomite, but I believe that it very much applys to your situation.
The Bible also tells us to "come out from among them and be ye separate".
Street Preacher
joyfulkeeperathome
New Member
In church tonight, we were in I Corinthians (well, actually we are studying through Hebrews, but it happened to take us to I Corithians 10. Anyway, I got off reading the rest of the chapter (as I often do, not being disrespectful in church, but I just like to know what the entire content of the passage is...). Anyway, in I Corinthians 10:27 it says "If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake." Now, from this verse, I got a couple of things. It's okay to eat with sinners!!! But you shouldn't go if it would offend your conscience or the conscience of other brothers (okay, so the second point I got from the context, not necessarily from the one verse....but anyway, here it is!) I believe the verse quoted earlier showing that you shouldn't go was only talking about unrepentant believers, not the lost world....
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
I have a family member who is homosexual. She is welcome in my home anytime (sans partner), but I will not go to her house.
She knows how I feel, she knows what the Bible says and she understands. But I would feel this way even if she DIDN'T understand.
I would definitely be putting a 'stamp of approval' on her lifestyle if I went to her house.
No matter which way you slice it, your friend would construe your presence as approval.
Your co-worker may just be looking for a 'coup'.
What if a baby Christian you know were to walk by as you were exiting that party? Would you want to take a chance on being a stumbling block? If the answer to this is "no", then don't go.
Would you want your Pastor or brothers and sisters in Christ to know you went to that party? If the answer to this is "no", then don't go.
Do you think the Holy Spirit would be comfortable in such a setting? (He will be going with you) If the answer to this is "no", then don't go.
JMHO,
§ue
She knows how I feel, she knows what the Bible says and she understands. But I would feel this way even if she DIDN'T understand.
I would definitely be putting a 'stamp of approval' on her lifestyle if I went to her house.
No matter which way you slice it, your friend would construe your presence as approval.
Your co-worker may just be looking for a 'coup'.
What if a baby Christian you know were to walk by as you were exiting that party? Would you want to take a chance on being a stumbling block? If the answer to this is "no", then don't go.
Would you want your Pastor or brothers and sisters in Christ to know you went to that party? If the answer to this is "no", then don't go.
Do you think the Holy Spirit would be comfortable in such a setting? (He will be going with you) If the answer to this is "no", then don't go.
JMHO,
§ue
Debby in Philly
Active Member
But what about Zacchaeus? Who was more outraged by Jesus' actions - the people or the Pharasees?
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
Debby; I don't mean this to be rude, but it sounds like you have made up your mind to go and you're looking for validation that it's all right.
I'm sure you'll find it, but I cannot give it to you because I believe it is wrong.
Love Ya Anyway!
§ue
I'm sure you'll find it, but I cannot give it to you because I believe it is wrong.
Love Ya Anyway!
§ue
I don't think Jesus ever condoned the lifestyle of those he ate with, but he ate with tax collectors who stole money from others and sinners.
When I walk into a prison I am not condoning the actions of the prisoners by being in that building. I am there for one purpose. I am an ambassador for Jesus Christ.
I was in the business world for a long time. During my time I attended many company meetings. Never once did I ever drink. At the first meeting people would notice I didn't drink. My works was tops. In fact in one of the companies I was the top manager. People respected me for that stance. It also gave me opportunity to share my faith. People knew I was a Christian. They may not have been a believer but they did control their language and actions around me. I want people to see that I am in many ways just like them but in other ways very different. I want them to see the difference Christ makes in my life and the difference He can make in their's too. Another benefit of sharing our faith is that others who amy not be as strong come around us for encouragement and give us support. We help them to grow through our example.
I eat with non-believers and work with non-believers. I regularly pray for them too. Two weeks ago I went on a trip with two others. I shared a room with one of them. Later when we were in our room he started talking to me about religion. He is quite antagonistic. But after our conversation he was a little different. I was honest and shot straight with him. At first he talked about the shamans on TV. That was his picture of Christians and their leaders--stupid and ignorant. I told him what God thinks about them too. We have a good relationship and I continue to pray for him.
There have been plenty of times when the conversation turns to religions and then someone stops the conversation and asks me what I think. It has happened so many times.
I grew up in a non-Christian home and have talked to each family member about Christ. 32 years later almost all of them are believers. Today when we get together it is a Christian party and not a drinking celebration. At the last family get together for a funeral, one of my cousins said that she feels uncomfortable because so many are Christians. She notices the difference.
One with Christ is a majority. Pray for boldness in the midst of opportunities. We can shrink from declaring the truth or we can be bold. The choice is ours.
When I walk into a prison I am not condoning the actions of the prisoners by being in that building. I am there for one purpose. I am an ambassador for Jesus Christ.
I was in the business world for a long time. During my time I attended many company meetings. Never once did I ever drink. At the first meeting people would notice I didn't drink. My works was tops. In fact in one of the companies I was the top manager. People respected me for that stance. It also gave me opportunity to share my faith. People knew I was a Christian. They may not have been a believer but they did control their language and actions around me. I want people to see that I am in many ways just like them but in other ways very different. I want them to see the difference Christ makes in my life and the difference He can make in their's too. Another benefit of sharing our faith is that others who amy not be as strong come around us for encouragement and give us support. We help them to grow through our example.
I eat with non-believers and work with non-believers. I regularly pray for them too. Two weeks ago I went on a trip with two others. I shared a room with one of them. Later when we were in our room he started talking to me about religion. He is quite antagonistic. But after our conversation he was a little different. I was honest and shot straight with him. At first he talked about the shamans on TV. That was his picture of Christians and their leaders--stupid and ignorant. I told him what God thinks about them too. We have a good relationship and I continue to pray for him.
There have been plenty of times when the conversation turns to religions and then someone stops the conversation and asks me what I think. It has happened so many times.
I grew up in a non-Christian home and have talked to each family member about Christ. 32 years later almost all of them are believers. Today when we get together it is a Christian party and not a drinking celebration. At the last family get together for a funeral, one of my cousins said that she feels uncomfortable because so many are Christians. She notices the difference.
One with Christ is a majority. Pray for boldness in the midst of opportunities. We can shrink from declaring the truth or we can be bold. The choice is ours.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Again, Jesus ate with sinners and went into their homes with the intention of TEACHING them and telling them about His Father. Debby would NOT be entering that home to spread God's word and I agree with Sue, I would NOT go.
My sister in law has a common law husband (shacking up for probably 10 years or more) and the one time they came to visit us, they were not allowed to sleep in the same room or bring alcohol into our home.
Diane
My sister in law has a common law husband (shacking up for probably 10 years or more) and the one time they came to visit us, they were not allowed to sleep in the same room or bring alcohol into our home.
Diane
Debby in Philly
Active Member
No, I was asking for advice because I could passionately argue for both views - to go or not to go - using all of the ideas already stated here.
Only problem - the two answers are mutually exclusive - I can't go and not go at the same time.
Is the only reason there's a question at all because homosexuality is such a hot-button issue right now? What if he were an open cheat like Zacchaeus? What if he were a doctor who performed abortions? What if he were a Mafia boss? What if he lived with his girlfriend? What if he were an ordinary sinner like the rest of us?
I do not take this lightly. Our church left the ABC last year because the local association accepted an openly gay church into membership in the association. We lost members over it. I supported the leaving because it would have meant saying Christian brothers and sisters could openly and admittedly engage in homosexual behavior and still hold a position of good standing in the church, including holding office. Yet we stood on a position of "love the sinner but hate the sin" as far as ministering to people dealing with this sin.
I guess what I am trying to reconcile is where and how to draw the line between the desire to minister and/or lay the groundwork for ministry and the appearance of approval.
Only problem - the two answers are mutually exclusive - I can't go and not go at the same time.
Is the only reason there's a question at all because homosexuality is such a hot-button issue right now? What if he were an open cheat like Zacchaeus? What if he were a doctor who performed abortions? What if he were a Mafia boss? What if he lived with his girlfriend? What if he were an ordinary sinner like the rest of us?
I do not take this lightly. Our church left the ABC last year because the local association accepted an openly gay church into membership in the association. We lost members over it. I supported the leaving because it would have meant saying Christian brothers and sisters could openly and admittedly engage in homosexual behavior and still hold a position of good standing in the church, including holding office. Yet we stood on a position of "love the sinner but hate the sin" as far as ministering to people dealing with this sin.
I guess what I am trying to reconcile is where and how to draw the line between the desire to minister and/or lay the groundwork for ministry and the appearance of approval.
Trying to summarize the arguments:
If eating with BELIEVERS that are living an evil, ungodly, immoral lifestyle is CONDEMNED, the implication is that eating with NON-BELIEVERS (to win them, of course) is NOT condemned? Not good logic there.
If we follow the example of Jesus, He DID eat with "sinners", but always with REPENTANCE. Zach and Mary Magdalene, et al, did not flaunt their lifestyle or continue in it. Don't paint a pix of Jesus having dinner with a different whore each night. That is NOT what the NT shows. These were people who, unlike the Pharisees, recognized their sinfulness.
Is this just like working in the next cubicle to a sodomite? Or sharing the lunch table? I have to do this as well in college circles. There is nothing wrong with the casual contact (hopefully using it as an opportunity to witness) with immoral of all kinds. But this invitation is one of FORMAL RECOGNITION - a "spouse" (gag) asking you to "celebrate" a sodomite companion. I could not go that far without vexing my soul. I cannot put a stamp of approval on such a relationship. I would not even send a card.
All you get is my opinion here, based on 35 years as a pastor whose spiritual gift is "showing mercy". (Really. I know it doesn't always come across in type!)
If eating with BELIEVERS that are living an evil, ungodly, immoral lifestyle is CONDEMNED, the implication is that eating with NON-BELIEVERS (to win them, of course) is NOT condemned? Not good logic there.
If we follow the example of Jesus, He DID eat with "sinners", but always with REPENTANCE. Zach and Mary Magdalene, et al, did not flaunt their lifestyle or continue in it. Don't paint a pix of Jesus having dinner with a different whore each night. That is NOT what the NT shows. These were people who, unlike the Pharisees, recognized their sinfulness.
Is this just like working in the next cubicle to a sodomite? Or sharing the lunch table? I have to do this as well in college circles. There is nothing wrong with the casual contact (hopefully using it as an opportunity to witness) with immoral of all kinds. But this invitation is one of FORMAL RECOGNITION - a "spouse" (gag) asking you to "celebrate" a sodomite companion. I could not go that far without vexing my soul. I cannot put a stamp of approval on such a relationship. I would not even send a card.
All you get is my opinion here, based on 35 years as a pastor whose spiritual gift is "showing mercy". (Really. I know it doesn't always come across in type!)
Diane, I would disagree.
Don’t you think that’s quite a dim view you hold of Debby? I have seen brand new believers less than one week old in the faith share their faith in the midst of non-believers.
Whatever happened to Acts 1:8?
That is such a dim view of God to be able to sustain her. When my God is big the world is small. But when my God is small the world is huge.
Not too long ago a young man I led to Christ told me he could lose his job for sharing his faith, but he will anyway. He is an ambassador for Jesus.
The problem with so many Christians today is that they are ineffective because they sit in their holy huddle and pat themselves on the back admiring how holy they are instead of being bold and sharing their faith. They spend their time congratulating themselves and condemning the world.
Too many spend their time judging the world and trying to impose their morals and beliefs on the world rather than just simply sharing the gospel. The gospel has the power to change lives in an instance. Nothing we do, will ever change anybody. It is the gospel that has the power to change lives. Acts 1:8.
Paul never prayed for opportunity but for boldness.
Many many times I have prayed for boldness and in an instant the time to speak was freely given to me with everyone listening.
We give money to missions to send people to give out the gospel and possibly start new churches in areas where there is not one church or Christ is not named in a country where they may lose their life for Christ. Then we sit in America and are afraid of things so petty by comparison.
The issue of whether to go or not is will we pulled down by them or will we lift them up. Will we allow them to pull us down or will we stand strong with Christ knowing he will give us the words to say. Nobody will ever know what God can do until they are there.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Diane, I would disagree.
Don’t you think that’s quite a dim view you hold of Debby?
</font>[/QUOTE]Absolutely not. Debby NEVER said she would go to this homosexuals drinking included party to preach and teach to those in attendance expecting them to turn from their sin. She never said she would attend and then sit at their table and tell any and all homosexuals there what scripture says about their lifestyle. She only wanted to know if she should attend because of their living in sin.
Jesus went into the homes of sinners not to 'party' but to bring them to salvation. Period.
Debby in Philly
Active Member
That is exactly what I do every day. And I am his team leader. And I have already witnessed to him. I have loaned him the book on creationism, since he argues with his "partner" about it, he taking the creationism side and wanting scientific proof to refute his "partner." I have explained the plan of salvation, and what it means to me. Not pushing it, but when subject of beliefs arrises. He has never asked me point blank about homosexuality and my view. When and if that time comes, I pray that I can explain it in such a way that it doesn't sound like I think I am better than he. Thank God, he still thinks of me as someone with a valuable opinion on more than just work matters. Will he still listen if suddenly I am "too holy" to enter his house?
D
dianetavegia
Guest
"For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them..." - Eph. 5:5-7
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. " - Eph. 5:11
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." - 2 Tim. 3:1-5
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. " - 2 Cor. 6:14-18
A divine curse is upon all same sex unions. The universal practice of such unions brought on the divine destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. (See Gen 19.) God commanded the Israelites, "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death" (Lev 20:13; see also Rom 1:24-27).
II Kings 23:7 "And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove."
I Kings 15:11,12 "And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made."
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
I Corinthians 6:9-11 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
Romans 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"
Ephesians 5: 12 "For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."
Romans 1:29-32 "Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
Isaiah 3:9 "The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves."
Romans 1:26,27 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
Romans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves"
Lamentations 4:6 "For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her."
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Ezekiel 16:50 "And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."
Genesis 19:4,5 "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."
Genesis 18:20,21 "And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know."
Genesis 13:13 "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly."
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. " - Eph. 5:11
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." - 2 Tim. 3:1-5
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. " - 2 Cor. 6:14-18
A divine curse is upon all same sex unions. The universal practice of such unions brought on the divine destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. (See Gen 19.) God commanded the Israelites, "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death" (Lev 20:13; see also Rom 1:24-27).
II Kings 23:7 "And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove."
I Kings 15:11,12 "And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made."
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
I Corinthians 6:9-11 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
Romans 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"
Ephesians 5: 12 "For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."
Romans 1:29-32 "Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
Isaiah 3:9 "The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves."
Romans 1:26,27 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
Romans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves"
Lamentations 4:6 "For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her."
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Ezekiel 16:50 "And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."
Genesis 19:4,5 "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."
Genesis 18:20,21 "And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know."
Genesis 13:13 "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly."