Should Preachers Go to Bible College and/or Seminary?

[Yeshua1]

Only if you are preaching to Jews and Greeks.

Would we not want to read and understand as they knew it back then?

 

[Yeshua1]

That's ignorance.

My Dad planted a church in Kansas in the 1940's. The good people were against him having a sermon outline, saying that he was not obeying the Holy Spirit if he preached from an outline. Then one day the wind came in through an open window and blew Dad's outline away. Dad was so well prepared he kept right on preaching without his notes. The people were dumbfounded, and decided notes were okay for a preacher!

I agree with you that a man called by the lord should avail himself of all learning opportunities, as knowing the Hebrew and Greek can only help them better understand and apply the English!

 

[Yeshua1]

And basically used none of it. His formal training drove him to kill Christians. He had to be re-trained.

Paul used all of his formal schooling, as he was the one chosen to be revealed the greatest theology on earth, the book of Romans!

 

[Yeshua1]

That's ignorance.

My Dad planted a church in Kansas in the 1940's. The good people were against him having a sermon outline, saying that he was not obeying the Holy Spirit if he preached from an outline. Then one day the wind came in through an open window and blew Dad's outline away. Dad was so well prepared he kept right on preaching without his notes. The people were dumbfounded, and decided notes were okay for a preacher!

Thought that you were going to say that when they saw him preaching without aid of his notes"That is preaching under the Holy Ghost"

 

[Marooncat79]

In the incarnation, Jesus “chose” to not know a lot

 

[Salty]

... sometimes it is the "and much more" taught at some colleges that causes concern among the Laity.

Without colleges we get individuals preaching KJVO legalism, and with the wrong college we get the ordination of lesbian pastors to keep the Church relevant to society. Choose your poison.

Keep in mind - that there are Bible colleges/Institutes that DO teach those exact things.

Also, some have said that knowing Greek, Hebrew, ect is not that important.

Well, I spent 3 tours in Germany with the US Army,; for a total of 8 years. I lived on base, worked on base, and shopped on base. Other than a few basic phrases (hello, where is the train station, ect) I did not learn German. As I look back - I missed a great opportunity by not knowing the language.

 

[John of Japan]

I hope I did not offend you

That was never the point

I have to say I did not see any of your comments as being condescending. So it must have been me, but I don't know what I said in a condescending way.

 

[Marooncat79]

Thank you. He seems to imply me. I certainly hope not

 

[Dr. Bob]

And basically used none of it. His formal training drove him to kill Christians. He had to be re-trained.

So thankful Paul used ALL his training. The NT doctrines that depend on super-accurate word choices, grammatical exactness and nuances could be done better in Greek than any other language (esp Hebrew, which is a vastly less-accurate language painting word pictures rather than exact doctrinal teaching)

Until he saw Jesus as the Messiah, his work was zealous to historic Judaism. After conversion, that highest academic training in the world (from Gamaliel) Paul possessed was not "retrained" but simply re-directed and used a thousand times more than the grade-school education of Peter or high school of John.

 

[Dr. Bob]

And I am biblically and formally educated and hate to think I'd EVER sound "condescending" [that means talking down to someone ]

 

[Reynolds]

So thankful Paul used ALL his training. The NT doctrines that depend on super-accurate word choices, grammatical exactness and nuances could be done better in Greek than any other language (esp Hebrew, which is a vastly less-accurate language painting word pictures rather than exact doctrinal teaching)

Until he saw Jesus as the Messiah, his work was zealous to historic Judaism. After conversion, that highest academic training in the world (from Gamaliel) Paul possessed was not "retrained" but simply re-directed and used a thousand times more than the grade-school education of Peter or high school of John.

The Holy Spirit inspired Scripture. The Holy Spirit was not limited by the education level of anyone.

 

[rlvaughn]

What caused him to persecute Christians (there is no evidence he personally killed them)...

Paul was not a murderer in any legal sense, since he was operating under authority of law. Neither is there evidence that he was physically involved in any executions (such as throwing stones at Stephen). However, he clearly approved of executions of Christians (e.g. Acts 8:1; 22:20) and specifically mentions that he voiced or voted in favor of putting them to death (Acts 26:10).

 

[Dr. Bob]

The Holy Spirit inspired Scripture. The Holy Spirit was not limited by the education level of anyone.

And how does that work. RARELY, God said "write xyz" and dictated it. Figure the grammar would be perfect.

Most often God's Spirit guided men using THEIR education, THEIR grammatical skill, THEIR hands and quills to write this now (that was superintending is) to come out with HIS perfect word. Just the right preposition, the perfect declension and agreement of noun/adjective, the correct verb form (I studied Greek 5 years and am still mouth-agape reading God's actual Words - not a translation into any language of any era, but actual Greek words - but how it dovetails perfectly and eliminated the ambiguities and confusion that we have in English.

Nobody limits the Spirit of God. But the Spirit uses the vessel at hand. So thankful that the bulk of the NT that gives us our detailed doctrine was by highly-educated men. Luke used educated words (I'm finishing 54 sermons in Acts and see HIS personality/education/skill in these verses. No one - literally, no one - was more educated that Paul and I read his intricate sentences like a Ph.D. would write. I have diagrammed them out (remember than from jr hi days?) and it is challenging. His vocabulary is amazing. Then there's elementary-school Peter who simply made up words because he didn't know the vocabulary of a Ph.D. - don't need that when you're bass fishin', dude.

And God uses US as His vessels today. MY sermons are probably different from anyone else's because of my background, education, vocabulary, knowledge of history/culture etc. God uses that. But I believe God also used my first sermons at age 15, sharing the Gospel to 75 1-3 graders in our church each Sunday. Granted, I wasn't trying to teach the kenosis of Christ from Philippians or the hypostatic union of the godhead; I was just preaching about blind Bartimaeus.

 

[Marooncat79]

Paul used all of his formal schooling, as he was the one chosen to be revealed the greatest theology on earth, the book of Romans!

Did you know!!

Drum roll please

Harvard University supposedly used the book of Romans to teach Logic up until about 1970?

I really should have looked this ip to make sure, but I am pretty sure to be right here

 

[Marooncat79]

And how does that work. RARELY, God said "write xyz" and dictated it. Figure the grammar would be perfect.

Most often God's Spirit guided men using THEIR education, THEIR grammatical skill, THEIR hands and quills to write this now (that was superintending is) to come out with HIS perfect word. Just the right preposition, the perfect declension and agreement of noun/adjective, the correct verb form (I studied Greek 5 years and am still mouth-agape reading God's actual Words - not a translation into any language of any era, but actual Greek words - but how it dovetails perfectly and eliminated the ambiguities and confusion that we have in English.

Nobody limits the Spirit of God. But the Spirit uses the vessel at hand. So thankful that the bulk of the NT that gives us our detailed doctrine was by highly-educated men. Luke used educated words (I'm finishing 54 sermons in Acts and see HIS personality/education/skill in these verses. No one - literally, no one - was more educated that Paul and I read his intricate sentences like a Ph.D. would write. I have diagrammed them out (remember than from jr hi days?) and it is challenging. His vocabulary is amazing. Then there's elementary-school Peter who simply made up words because he didn't know the vocabulary of a Ph.D. - don't need that when you're bass fishin', dude.

And God uses US as His vessels today. MY sermons are probably different from anyone else's because of my background, education, vocabulary, knowledge of history/culture etc. God uses that. But I believe God also used my first sermons at age 15, sharing the Gospel to 75 1-3 graders in our church each Sunday. Granted, I wasn't trying to teach the kenosis of Christ from Philippians or the hypostatic union of the godhead; I was just preaching about blind Bartimaeus.

Yes, the style of writing in the NT is quite varied. Luke and Paul seem to be the most well educated while John , and Peter wrote in a much simpler style (words and phrases)

This does not mean that The writings of Paul and Luke were better or more inspired. It does demonstrate how God uses all of us for His glory and to accomplish His goals for His Kingdom

 

[Marooncat79]

Please explain your answer a little more.
It can be taken as a personal attack due to its brevity and non-specificity.

AT. I certainly did not mean to offend you with this statement. It was meant to be a general statement certainly not aimed at anyone

If I did offend you, would you please forgive me? I do sometimes come off as crass and that is never the intention

I do want to make it very clear tgat eventhough I attended seminary, I am in no way a finished product. In fact, about a month ago, I publicly made the comment about John being much more proficient in Greek than I. There are numerous reasons for this and none of them really matter in the grand scheme of things. Education is just that, none of us ever “arrive” and all are prone to error.

May God continually remind me to have a humble heart and compassion to all men.

Thank You

Bill

Rom 5:1

 

[atpollard]

AT. I certainly did not mean to offend you with this statement. It was meant to be a general statement certainly not aimed at anyone

If I did offend you, would you please forgive me? I do sometimes come off as crass and that is never the intention

Thank You

Bill

Rom 5:1

There is no forgiveness needed (for either you or John of Japan).
Since you both have offered apologies, I freely grant any and all forgiveness that you might be due.
You explained your intentions, as requested, so I know that there was no malice in your brief post.

What upsets me about this entire topic (and several others that take a similar track) is the assumption that those who disagree with the opinions taught at seminary do so out of ignorance. It is not an established fact that Peter, as an example, was LITERATE in Greek and Hebrew and thus READ the Hebrew and Greek OT scrolls to select which translation he was inspired to quote when writing in Greek (and in fact, it has not even been attempted to show that Peter actually personally WROTE anything and did not dictate it to a scribe.)

Yet the "truth" taught to y'all at seminary is presented as TRUTH (absolute Truth) and any questioning of that truth becomes an "example" to illustrate why Preachers need a seminary education. It was that "assumed superiority" that comes through loud and clear from those seminary educated to those who they assume are not. If I had M.Div. before my name, my assumptions would have been treated differently and attacked as "error" rather than dismissed as "ignorance". Yet in debate terms, you are still committing an invisible "Appeal to Authority" fallacy and in Legal terms you are "stating facts not in evidence".

To bring us full circle back to the question in the OP and his poll: This innate attitude created by adding letters to your name is what causes some people to object to seminary trained Pastors. People want a Caring Shepherd, not a Well Educated Overlord. It only takes one bad experience to leave a lasting impression on a Church member and their family.

For myself, most of what I believe I learned by reading scripture "in spite of what I was being taught to the contrary at the Church of God of Anderson Indiana". (God has a sense of humor) Most of the theological vocabulary that I learned for what I believe came from "Hank", who taught the Adult Bible Study at an Evangelical Free Church [Hank had a M.Div from Moody, along with an MBA and a PhD in Mathematics]. I learned a lot about the "Trinity" and "Already and not yet" and "Typologies" from Brian, a young Southern Baptist Pastor with a brand new PhD. in Theology with a Dissertation on something to do with the Trinity. So I am not "anti-education" ... I just know what its strengths and weaknesses are and why other people are put off by some Seminary Graduates. (I have multiple Degrees myself - none from any bible college - all useful to me, but ultimately unimportant to who I am.)

Arthur T. Pollard, RA LEED
Architect, Engineer, Land Planner

 

[Yeshua1]

In the incarnation, Jesus “chose” to not know a lot

Would you say that he knew as much as a Jewish man of his era, but that the Holy Spirit gave to Him what He needed when he needed it knowledge wise?
Or was it that he always knew all things, since still fully God, but placed himself under limitations of the Human flesh?

 

[Marooncat79]

You are very blessed to have had such teachers. I consider you as a trained lauman who has a lot to offer anyone. It sounds like you have spent much time in great study

As to Peter, I see your pount regarding an amanuensis.

People want a Caring Shepherd, not a Well Educated Overlord. It only takes one bad experience to leave a lasting impression on a Church member and their family.

This is one of the best comments ever on BB

 

[Yeshua1]

So thankful Paul used ALL his training. The NT doctrines that depend on super-accurate word choices, grammatical exactness and nuances could be done better in Greek than any other language (esp Hebrew, which is a vastly less-accurate language painting word pictures rather than exact doctrinal teaching)

Until he saw Jesus as the Messiah, his work was zealous to historic Judaism. After conversion, that highest academic training in the world (from Gamaliel) Paul possessed was not "retrained" but simply re-directed and used a thousand times more than the grade-school education of Peter or high school of John.

That is why God chose Paul to be the One to give forth to us Romans and all of the other NT Books that he penned down to us under inspiration of the Holy Spirit!