Should some beats be avoided?

[Eric B]

You have to realize that no culture has a monopoly on God or godliness; and none has a monopoly on Satan or unholiness. That is the assumption basically undergirding all those arguments about "beats". People forget that the ancestral culture in which the "traditional" or "classical" style assumed to be "godly" and used in "conservative" Churches, developed, was originally not Christian either, but co-opted Christianity once it spread into its lands.

All men have sinned. All cultures, unless directly intervened by God, were into false religon, and used their music for it; and even the one that God did intervene in kept falling back into sin. Meanwhile, even when worshipping God properly, the music, being mideasterm, was often more lively and rhythmic. So that is not the criteria God uses to accept of reject music. Man is goverened largely by our associations (If we saw or heard it being used for false worship). An element of music might come in handy for a particular sin (such as some rhythms for sensual dancing). So we must be careful in ruling out whole styles, and making it a divine absolute, rather than simply confessing "I have a problem with that sound".

Now, when it comes to "entertaining"; that is where you have to be careful with ANY style. Don't think people insisting on traditional only aren't being "entertained"; though they would never admit it.

http://members.aol.com/etb700/ccm.html

 

[Palatka51]

Thanks, cc. I'm sure whatever you had to add was snide, sarcastic, and generally non productive.

My main issue about certain beats is that they were originally used in non Christian sacred ceremonies, and do not glorify God, but entertain the congregation, instead. I listened to the Blessed Assurance track, and to me it just sounded flippant. The lyrics are completely lost. If I had heard this version before the more traditional one, I would never have known it was a song about praising God for the gift of salvation. "Perfect submission", not!

love,

Sopranette

I appreciate your passion Sopranette, but again as I had posted before that this is a subject that is determined by ones personal tastes. Some folks like beets and some do not. I love beets but I am not going to force them onto one who doesn't. The one who doesn't like beets will turn their noses away at the very smell of them. Does the one that finds offense in the beets berate the one who eats them?
As far as music is concerned I like traditional hymns with a traditional beat. I will not even worship where CCM is the norm. However I will not berate those that like to hear it. Again it is a matter of personal taste in musical beats. All forms of music has a beat, even that of the old hymns. You can sway to it, tap to it, snap to it or if you'd like waltz to it. I will speak up when the congregation dances with it provocatively and I have been to youth church events where the dancing had became quite lewd.
As for Gods Word on the subject there seems to be no sanction against what beat to use.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Thanks, cc. I'm sure whatever you had to add was snide, sarcastic, and generally non productive.

My main issue about certain beats is that they were originally used in non Christian sacred ceremonies, and do not glorify God, but entertain the congregation, instead. I listened to the Blessed Assurance track, and to me it just sounded flippant. The lyrics are completely lost. If I had heard this version before the more traditional one, I would never have known it was a song about praising God for the gift of salvation. "Perfect submission", not!

love,

Sopranette

Well, Sop... <<self-edited>> What works in my church and what brings us to worship obviously wouldn't work in yours. Not that you're not welcome, but you would probably be uncomfortable. Praise God there's different churches with different philosophies... even among us Baptists. I'm out of this discussion starting now.

love,

Joshua Rhodes

BTW - I know good and well when Blessed Assurance was written; I've been doing this a LONG time. So thanks for that tidbit.

Ok, now I'm out... starting NOW.

love, again,

Joshua Rhodes

Edited for clarity.

 

[Sopranette]

I'm not saying ALL things enjoyable are sinful. Of course not. That is a huge generalization you are making out of my question. I'm still insisting some beats ARE purely entertainment, and that is why people listen to them. A disco beat would clearly be wrong, but how many people know about the origins of certain beats, like the reggae beat I mentioned before? That was used purposefully to worship a god. We should be careful of that line between worship and empty entertainment, and set ourselves apart from the world.

love,

Sopranette

 

[tinytim]

A disco beat would clearly be wrong,

Why?

What scripture do you have for this doctrine?

I believe it would be inappropriate in certain situations.. but what makes the disco beat wrong...

So what if the Raggae beat had pagan origins...
Hymns had European origins.. The Europeans were sinners too.. look at The druids... Irish music has druidic influence...

Should we in the Southern US dictate to the world that only music from the Southern US is the only music Christians can worship too..
what about the Japanese... should we teach them to sing McKamey's songs... and tell them they are not truly worshipping if they don't...

The Bible does speak of Music, but it speaks of Hebrew music... And God enjoyed the style David played.. so if you are going to really get technical, you have to say that the Bible only supports the ancient Hebrew music.. and It is a rare Baptist church in the Southern US that plays Hebrew music on Sunday morning...

BTW, Jazz has more of a Christian influence than Southern Gospel

After all, Jazz is the only music that was ever created in the Great Christian nation of America...

All other music had it's origens in pagan nations...
Southern Gospel had it's origens in pagan folk tunes carried over from Europe, Black Gospel had it's origens from pagan nations...

So in reality, Jazz is the only definitive music that has ever came from a Christian nation...

 

[SBCPreacher]

Sopranette,

Please be careful that you don't set you own opinion up to the same level as the Word of God. Just because you don't like some style (disco?) doesn't mean that it cannot be used to honor God. Hey, I don't like rap music and hip-hop, but I'm sure glad that there are people doing it with Christian lyrics!

Music is like a car. It is the vehicle that gets a person from one place to another. You can use your car for good (going to work, school, church, etc.) and you can use your car for evil (getting away after robbing a bank, running someone over and killing them). Now, the car is neither good or evil - the person is.

We have to always be careful that we don't let our likes and dislikes determine if something is absolutely right or absolutely wrong.

As for the particular song mentioned, I like it! I like the arrangement! I'm probably going to get the track and sing it myself. And, yes, I can honor God with the talents He has given me by singing a song set to a big band sound.

 

[Sopranette]

Alright. I guess I've learned everything I wanted to know on this one subject. I guess I'm just an anachronism. The old hymns still hold a dear place in my heart, they still express my most fervent prayers beautifully, and I really haven't heard anything done in recent years I can say that about.

love,

Sopranette

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

So what you said in the "Spiritual Worship" thread:

It praises God. It expresses a universal human emotion or condition. It moves people in a positive spiritual direction.

This only applies if you like it? That's ridiculous. Oh sorry, I was done with this. I'll dive out for real this time.

 

[TaterTot]

I love to hear new arrangements of old hymn texts. After singing a hymn over and over for years, the text begins to lose its effectiveness to me. When I hear it redone, however, it brings it back to life for me.

 

[Mike McK]

Okay, if no, do you ever draw a line? Is pop okay, but heavy metal is not? Is blue grass okay, but blues is not? I would have drawn a line on the reggae beat, since that particular beat IS a part of rastafarian worhip ceremonies.

love,

Sopranette

Even if that were true, and it isn't, that would be a "meat sacrificed to idols" matter. That is, it doesn't matter what they used it for. The question is, what are you using it for.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to go find that Peter Tosh album.

 

[annsni]

Alright. I guess I've learned everything I wanted to know on this one subject. I guess I'm just an anachronism. The old hymns still hold a dear place in my heart, they still express my most fervent prayers beautifully, and I really haven't heard anything done in recent years I can say that about.

love,

Sopranette

My husband is a worship leader. He prefers some of the new stuff that's out (not all of it - he's pretty particular) AND he'll use some old hymns. We also have another worship leader who prefers more old hymns and some other modern stuff.

As you said in your post above - it's what YOU prefer - what expresses YOUR prayers. Not everyone is like you. Not everyone likes a particular style of song - not everyone likes a particular rhythm either. Is a beat sinful? No. I don't see anywhere in Scripture where a beat is sinful. IF a beat is sinful to YOU, then it is but Scripture is also clear that we are not to command others to feel the same way we do about things like this. If Scripture says it's a sin, it's a sin. If it's silent, then we have the liberty to make our own choices.

Here's a site I bookmarked a while ago because I liked what he had to say. I haven't read it in a while but I think it might be an interesting read to you. http://members.aol.com/etb700/ccm.html

 

[Sopranette]

Thanks, Ann. I'll goread it.

I just want to add, whether I like a certain style of music or not is irrelevant to my OP. It is a question of what is suitable for worship that is in question, SPECIFICALLY the beat it is set to.

love,

Sopranette

 

[ccrobinson]

Thanks, cc. I'm sure whatever you had to add was snide, sarcastic, and generally non productive.

You're so very welcome, sopranette. Speaking of snide, sarcastic and non-productive, please be careful tossing stones at me. I hear glass houses shatter easily.

Speaking of non-productive, would you care to answer the question that I asked?

 

[chuck2336]

I am not a Worship leader or anything, but I just had to throw in my two cents. I dont care what the lyrics say or who it is used for, Disco is just plain wrong!

 

[chuck2336]

Again I am not from a musical background at all, but my opinion has always been that it is impossible for music to be "sin" or even "wrong" music simply is what the artist makes it.

The middle C that is played in Amazing Grace, is the same middle C played in any song that you or I may call vile. It is not the note or the music, but its usage that has changed.

I love the older hymns, but to discount a song simply because it was written in this century or has a "beat" means I will miss out on a lot of great worship songs that are out there now.

I was in a group that was one of the first to hear Casting Crowns sing "Praise You In The Storm" My wife and I wept as this song spoke the words of our hearts.

I just dont think that just because a song is old makes it better, just older.

 

[Sopranette]

I'm not talking about music having a beat. EVERY song has a beat. I'm talking about songs used in worship that mimic beats used by other genres, especially those used by rock or pagan rituals, with the specific intent to entertain rather than move people in contemplative prayer. I've heard a
Punk version of "Silent Night", I've heard Jazz versions of "Amazing Grace". I've heard a number of hymns done in a Blues format. I've heard a number of rock covers of Christmas carols. I'm not offended, I just think they're inappropriate. Apparently, these would be okay in some churches today! Personally, I'm dumbfounded. I've yet to see a Thrash Metal band in church, and I hope I never will.

love,

Sopranette

 

[PastorSBC1303]

If you already have all the answers, why keep asking questions?

 

[Sopranette]

Why are the usual people on my ignore list continuing to post at me?

 

[Steven2006]

I have a problem with the idea that if something is enjoyable down here it is a sin...
God gave us pleasures..

It seems that the only things that are carnal are the things OTHERS like that we think (or was raised in a culture to think) they are sin...

Drums are not a sin... if they are, where is it in scripture.
Same with beat patterns...

Just because we enjoy something here in the flesh doesn't mean it is a sin...

Good post. Brings up a question in my mind. What is worse, listening to a pop song, or drinking soda? For myself, I would say as long as the lyrics were OK to listen to the pop song is not as bad as drinking the soda, but I am sure many would disagree with me about this. We to often have many traditions of man, that over time seem to become some sort of Holy standards.

 

[rbell]

Thanks, cc. I'm sure whatever you had to add was snide, sarcastic, and generally non productive.

My main issue about certain beats is that they were originally used in non Christian sacred ceremonies, and do not glorify God, but entertain the congregation, instead. I listened to the Blessed Assurance track, and to me it just sounded flippant. The lyrics are completely lost. If I had heard this version before the more traditional one, I would never have known it was a song about praising God for the gift of salvation. "Perfect submission", not!

love,

Sopranette

Opinion, nothing more.

Scripture, please?